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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default [3.5 Race] Diclonius

    Now, I take no credit for this, it all goes to whoever has wrote this article, but I'll paste the relevant parts. http://locksmyth.alchemyx.com/index....&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

    Based on the anime Elfen Lied this race is a sub-type of human, born of human parents.

    This race is called the Diclonius, they are physiologically different to humans in a small number of ways. Most notably from a physical stance they have ‘cat-ear’ horns that protrude from their skulls. Their brains contains a significantly larger pineal gland, this provides several benefits, they can detect other Diclonius over short distances and have several invisible appendages, called vectors.
    These vectors or arms are ethereal in nature, they can be made partly of whole physical at will and are always invisible.

    DICLONIUS RACIAL TRAITS
    +2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, -2 Strength
    Medium: As Medium creatures, Diclonius have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
    Base land speed is 30 feet.
    Power resistance 10 + hit die
    Weapon Proficiency: Diclonii are proficient with any one martial weapon of their choice, in addition to those granted by class proficiencies. This weapon must be chosen at 1st level and cannot be changed.
    Vectors(Ex). (see description below)
    Psyonic Connection(Su): A Diclonius can detect the presence of all other Diclonii within 120ft. They also know the attitude the other Diclonius/Diclonii has towards them.
    Automatic Languages: Common. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic).
    Favored Classes: The favoured class of Diclonii is either psion or psychic warrior class. This choice must be made at 1st level and cannot be changed.
    - Vectors(Ex): A Diclonius has a number of vectors equal to her wisdom modifier. The length of a vector is equal to her intelligence modifier x 5 feet (minimum 5ft maximum 50ft). Vectors may be used in any situation where a regular limb may be used. When using a vector to perform an action the player must use their intelligence instead of strength and wisdom instead of dexterity. For Example if a Diclonius uses their vectors in combat their intelligence modifier is used instead of their strength for attack bonuses and damage, similarly when using a strength based skill the player may use their vectors and thus use their intelligence instead of their strength. For dexterity based skills that use any limb vectors can used and the check is performed using her Wisdom modifier. This bonus also applies to saves and AC, but, only if they have two or more vectors idle (or being used defensively).
    Vector Properties and Abilities:
    Natural Weapons: Vectors are a natural weapon and do a d6 + int mod. The critical hit range is x3. Much like a monk’s unarmed attack vectors are treated both as manufactured weapons and natural weapons for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.
    Immaterial: Vectors are mental force. They are unaffected by magic or psionic effect included dispelling and dead power zones. A vector can extend through solid objects but cannot pass through force effects. Vectors are not ethereal and do not have a miss chance when striking a physical object. Vectors are undetectable by any ordinary or magical means. However in combat opponents are never denied their dex bonus to AC unless they would ordinary be denied that bonus.
    AC bonus: Any vector not currently used in combat provides a +1 misc bonus to AC. If a character has more then two idle or defensive vectors their dexterity bonus to AC is replaced by their wisdom bonus in addition to the above AC bonus.
    Bonus Feat: Multiattack. Diclonii with 2 or more vectors gain this feat for free.
    Level Adjustment: +2


    --Personally I don't agree with the level adjustment, but at the same time I don't know what it should be, what do you all think?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5 Race] Diclonius

    this race is quite powerful. as a player, i would like to say that it is only a 2 LA but i dont think that i would allow it in a game that i am running without some serious consideration, and possibly a +3 LA. and just because i am such a fan of the manga and anime, i would also give them a d% roll of random mental affliction on headblows... or maybe just a schism that they can't control and will randomly take actions on it's own... hmmm
    sometimes you just want to play something completely overpowered and kill things, other times you want to play a bard with a point-buy 18...

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    Djinn_in_Tonic's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5 Race] Diclonius

    Well, let's take a look, shall we?

    Quote Originally Posted by CyrusXerxes View Post
    DICLONIUS RACIAL TRAITS
    +2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, -2 Strength
    Medium: As Medium creatures, Diclonius have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
    Base land speed is 30 feet.
    So far, so good. A total net of +2 to ability scores, but that's par for course for more powerful races.

    Power resistance 10 + hit die
    Not bad. First comparison up now is against the Drow, a LA +2 race with Spell Resistance 11 + Level.

    Weapon Proficiency: Diclonii are proficient with any one martial weapon of their choice, in addition to those granted by class proficiencies. This weapon must be chosen at 1st level and cannot be changed.
    Alright...not especially powerful. Again on par with Elves proficiencies.

    Psyonic Connection(Su): A Diclonius can detect the presence of all other Diclonii within 120ft. They also know the attitude the other Diclonius/Diclonii has towards them.
    Decent...especially if the whole party is Diclonii and they're in the dark or something. Not overly powerful, as no communication is possible.

    Favored Classes: The favoured class of Diclonii is either psion or psychic warrior class. This choice must be made at 1st level and cannot be changed.
    Odd, given that it has no bonus Power Points, but not a big problem. No complaints here.

    - Vectors(Ex): A Diclonius has a number of vectors equal to her wisdom modifier. The length of a vector is equal to her intelligence modifier x 5 feet (minimum 5ft maximum 50ft). Vectors may be used in any situation where a regular limb may be used. When using a vector to perform an action the player must use their intelligence instead of strength and wisdom instead of dexterity. For Example if a Diclonius uses their vectors in combat their intelligence modifier is used instead of their strength for attack bonuses and damage, similarly when using a strength based skill the player may use their vectors and thus use their intelligence instead of their strength. For dexterity based skills that use any limb vectors can used and the check is performed using her Wisdom modifier. This bonus also applies to saves and AC, but, only if they have two or more vectors idle (or being used defensively).
    Vector Properties and Abilities:
    Natural Weapons: Vectors are a natural weapon and do a d6 + int mod. The critical hit range is x3. Much like a monk’s unarmed attack vectors are treated both as manufactured weapons and natural weapons for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.
    Immaterial: Vectors are mental force. They are unaffected by magic or psionic effect included dispelling and dead power zones. A vector can extend through solid objects but cannot pass through force effects. Vectors are not ethereal and do not have a miss chance when striking a physical object. Vectors are undetectable by any ordinary or magical means. However in combat opponents are never denied their dex bonus to AC unless they would ordinary be denied that bonus.
    AC bonus: Any vector not currently used in combat provides a +1 misc bonus to AC. If a character has more then two idle or defensive vectors their dexterity bonus to AC is replaced by their wisdom bonus in addition to the above AC bonus.
    ...
    ...
    ...
    ...


    Yeah, it's that bad. What you've just done is given the Diclonii threatening reach out to 5ft x Int bonus, on a race that favors Int classes and has a natural Int bonus. Assuming a first level low estimate, that's a 10-15ft reach. On multiple attacks. Through solid objects. Effectively Ghost Touch. Using two scores liable to be quite high. With a x3 crit multiplier and more damage than an unarmed strike. That are UNDETECTABLE. That grant AC and Save bonuses. That replace Dex to AC with a most-likely higher Wisdom bonus. And then, to add insult to injury, you grant them Multiattack for free.

    In Conclusion:
    Level Adjustment: +2
    Sorry, but no way. Up until the Vectors you had either a strong +1 or a weak +2, but the Vectors are so good that, quite honestly, I wouldn't allow a player to play this race, regardless of the Level Adjustment. A potential reach of 15+ feet is bad enough...worse is everything mentioned previously. I can't even really estimate the Level Adjustment of such an ability, but I'm guessing that it's strong enough for me to justify handing this race at least a +5 or +6 Level adjustment.

    I'd be more comfortable giving them the following:

    Vectors: Diclonii have a pair of slightly Ethereal arms that allow them a variety of unusual abilities. These arms grant the Diclonius two natural Phantom Touch attacks (1d6/x2 vs. Touch AC each) with a reach of 10ft, but the arms cannot wield weapons properly, due to their somewhat ethereal nature. This damage is Force damage, and, as such, strikes Incorporeal and Ethereal creatures normally. A Diclonius attacking with these arms ignores Cover bonuses to AC, but must have a line of sight to his opponent. When using these arms for any other action, the Diclonius may substitute his Intelligence modifier for his Strength modifier on the related rolls, and may similarly substitute his Wisdom modifier for his Dexterity modifier.

    Then I'd say LA is a solid +2.
    Last edited by Djinn_in_Tonic; 2009-04-28 at 09:41 AM.

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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5 Race] Diclonius

    djinn... the vectors do exactly what they would be used for in game, and as effectively as you are afraid of them being. the more i think about it the more i realize that it really isn't possible to make them work in game.

    and nice restat of them by the way
    Last edited by bobspldbckwrds; 2009-04-28 at 10:33 AM.
    sometimes you just want to play something completely overpowered and kill things, other times you want to play a bard with a point-buy 18...

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Djinn_in_Tonic's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5 Race] Diclonius

    Quote Originally Posted by bobspldbckwrds View Post
    djinn... the vectors do exactly what they would be used for in game, and as effectively as you are afraid of them being. the more i think about it the more i realize that it really isn't possible to make them work in game.
    I figured as much. Hence why I toned them down with my suggestion, to keep some of the flavor while allowing them to be used in a standard game.

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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5 Race] Diclonius

    I like the way you restated it, namely for the limited reach and quantity of the vectors. I can see that getting by for +2, and if someone were to really want to make a 'lucy' they could throw together a diclonius paragon class and some racial feats (extra vectors, longer vectors)

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Djinn_in_Tonic's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5 Race] Diclonius

    Quote Originally Posted by CyrusXerxes View Post
    I like the way you restated it, namely for the limited reach and quantity of the vectors. I can see that getting by for +2, and if someone were to really want to make a 'lucy' they could throw together a diclonius paragon class and some racial feats (extra vectors, longer vectors)
    That sounds much more manageable. If you use these, I'd recommend going with the idea of a Prestige Class or Paragon Class to increase the racial abilities...not by TO much, mind you.

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  8. - Top - End - #8
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5 Race] Diclonius

    I'm locky, the guy that wrote this monstrosity. First I want to say I completely agree with djinn's analysis. The original write up is much less powerful and had a +4 LA (probably too harsh). However, no one wanted to play test the race, what you see in that write up is the end result of negotiations to get someone to playtest (I'm not the DM but I am paying close attention to the aspects of it's performance that I want to incorporate in the final draft.) I've also got the DM using the race as encounter monsters and he's turned them into a substantial plot point.

    I also would recommend anybody wanting to use this race use djinn's writeup for the vectors.

    So far, so good. A total net of +2 to ability scores, but that's par for course for more powerful races.
    It's also standard for core pathfinder races.

  9. - Top - End - #9
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    Default Re: [3.5 Race] Diclonius

    On the one hand: Djinn made it playable, at the cost of the Vectors not being as versatile as in the source material.

    On the other hand: A truly accurate representation of a Diclonius probably would be too powerful for a PC no matter what. Still gets killed by a well-prepped wizard at higher levels though.

    I'd actually like to see the original Diclonius idea as an enemy in a campaign.
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    Default Re: [3.5 Race] Diclonius

    Huh, just saw this topic and am not sure how I missed it. I rather liked the series and as such am interested in the race. I'd note however that i don't think the vectors can go through solid objects. i recall that when being used they acted just like physical objects and as such could be blocked by physical objects (though they were able to cut through quite a bit with relative ease).

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    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: [3.5 Race] Diclonius

    Have a racial prestige class for individuals like Lucy.
    Remember that all Dicloni have multiple personalities, I'd treat that like being "Inspired" by a Quori.
    You should change type to abberation and think about making a "Queen" that acts similar to a Thrallherd, kind of like Formians or Abeil, but less "I control/dominate you" and more "Do it or I rip you in half"........Y'know, you might want to give them a connection th Kythons, just saying.

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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: [3.5 Race] Diclonius

    It's a good idea and all but, um... Thread Necromancy isn't generally met kindly here.
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