[3.5] Wielding a spear in one hand?

[Tarmikos]

Well, since my last question on here was so well answered, I thought I'd ask another one. For a different campaign, I'm making a character for flavor, just to see how effective it would be in the D&D world. I'm basically building a Spartan for my own amusement. However, i've run into a snag. Spartans used spears one-handed. Actual spears, not short spears. This presents a problem in D&D, where normal spears are two-handed weapons. Is there any way possible to wield a spear in one hand?

[snoopy13a]

You could use the Trident's stats and call it a thrusting spear.

[Faleldir]

Try Monkey Grip with a large shortspear. It's the same damage.

EDIT: I forgot about the -2 attack penalty. Never mind.

[The Rose Dragon]

Try Monkey Grip with a large shortspear. It's the same damage.

With a worse attack bonus and you can't set it against a charge.

[The Mentalist]

The spear got the short end of the haft in D20 but without house ruling it's pretty borked. I'd talk to your DM asking about it like a Bastard Sword, If it's two handed as a simple weapon, can I wield it one handed as a martial weapon.

[Riffington]

Monkey Grip should be better.

I would call it exotic. You want a one-handed reach weapon, and that breaks a "rule" that all reach weapons are two-handed. It doesn't even have to be a different weapon - Bastard Sword is martial two-handed and exotic one-handed.

[The Rose Dragon]

Monkey Grip does not work that way.

(though it should).

It explicitly does work that way. What it does not allow is use a normally two-handed weapon made for your size one-handed.

You want a one-handed reach weapon, and that breaks a "rule" that all reach weapons are two-handed.

I dunno, I'd feel pretty stupid using a whip with two hands.

[Graymayre]

You could be a goliath race. They are medium sized, but considered large. I'm not sure what the restrictions are for the size consideration though. But, if it works the right way, you can have a large shortspear one handed without monkey grip.

By the way, a Goliath looks like a rippling muscled human, so it's basically a spartan.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Before the errata a medium creature used to be able to wield a small longspear in one hand as a reach weapon. If you're not going for reach, then I doubt it even matters that you'd be getting 1d6 shortspear damage instead of 1d8 spear damage, since after level 1 the damage difference isn't going to matter at all. If you absolutely must have a bigger one-handed spear, take exotic weapon proficiency for a greatspear from CW and use a small sized one in one hand, for 1d10 base damage though at a -2 to hit due to being inappropriately sized.

[Riffington]

It explicitly does work that way. What it does not allow is use a normally two-handed weapon made for your size one-handed.

What I was replying to was then edited.

I dunno, I'd feel pretty stupid using a whip with two hands.

Whip is exotic.

[Iku Rex]

You could use a Small longspear (if you're Medium). You'd get a -2 penalty on attack rolls for wielding an improperly sized weapon.


On higher levels the Strongarm Bracers (MIC, 6000) will let you use a Medium longspear in one hand, possibly without penalty (depending on the DM).

[The Rose Dragon]

Whip is exotic.

Whip uses the "a strange weapon to train with" definition of Exotic Weapon, not the "has mechanical advantage" definition. Which is not the right definition to use to justify a point when talking about the mechanics.

A whip could be a simple weapon and no one would bat an eye, because it is the single most terrible weapon in the core book.

[Tarmikos]

I'm thinking I may ask my dm about allowing a spear to be considered a one handed martial weapon.

To clear things up, I don't care about the damage difference between a shortspear and a normal spear. I'm trying to wield a normal spear in one hand purely for flavor, as it matches up with what Spartans really used. I can live with small penalties, or a bit less in damage, long as it matches up flavorwise.

[The Rose Dragon]

I don't think the Spartans used a normal spear* single-handed, as a normal spear is about six or seven feet. The average height of human males has only increased since then, and an above-average male of our time would have difficulty wielding a seven feet spear. At least not without specialized training.

* Do note that in 3.0, there was no weapon named "spear". There was shortspear, longspear and halfspear. So the naming conventions in D&D might not match the naming conventions of Greek myths.

[Frosty]

I just went through basic Shield and Spear training yesterday doing it spartan-style. Historically, the spears they wielded were anywhere from 6 to 8 feet long and yeah they could do it one handed. But I'm sure they also had butt-loaded of training and were in excellent shape. I'd probably require a str of at least 16 to wield that spear one handed. Granted, I'm no spartan myself, but today, I can't use my right arm. If I try to straighten my right arm I'm in pain. I also have trouble gripping anything with my right hand today.

So yeah. Do-able. But unless you get training...you'll be hurting yourself.

[Spiryt]

I don't think the Spartans used a normal spear* single-handed, as a normal spear is about six or seven feet. The average height of human males has only increased since then, and an above-average male of our time would have difficulty wielding a seven feet spear. At least not without specialized training.

Actually, by reenactors opinions I heard, 2,5 m spear (or even longer, 2,5 meter is comfirmed) is perfectly usable one handed, and preserved Germanic spears generally are longer than 2 meters. Longest ones, believed to be two handed are 10 - 11 feet.

Spear taller than man is pretty standard for one hand even if it's not 2.5m.

And Spartans probably used even longer spears, as they were figthing in phalanxes. Phalanx spears are believed to be even 3 meters long.

Of course D&D fails at presenting this as such weapon, even though one handed would have reach advantage over two handed sword, for example .

[Matthew]

The spear got the short end of the haft in D20 but without house ruling it's pretty borked. I'd talk to your DM asking about it like a Bastard Sword, If it's two handed as a simple weapon, can I wield it one handed as a martial weapon.

This.

I'm thinking I may ask my DM about allowing a spear to be considered a one handed martial weapon.

To clear things up, I don't care about the damage difference between a shortspear and a normal spear. I'm trying to wield a normal spear in one hand purely for flavor, as it matches up with what Spartans really used. I can live with small penalties, or a bit less in damage, long as it matches up flavorwise.

Perfectly good idea.

I don't think the Spartans used a normal spear* single-handed, as a normal spear is about six or seven feet. The average height of human males has only increased since then, and an above-average male of our time would have difficulty wielding a seven feet spear. At least not without specialized training.

Spartan spears are almost always depicted as exceptionally long, usually thought to have been about eight feet, possibly nine, depending on a number of factors. More like a long spear than a spear really, a length disparity that Herodotus comments on with regards to the Persians at Thermopylae.

Do note that in 3.0, there was no weapon named "spear". There was shortspear, longspear and halfspear. So the naming conventions in D&D might not match the naming conventions of Greek myths.

An unfortunate change in 3.5. The short spear and long spear were good ideas, and nicely paralleled the long/short or heavy/light dichotomy evident throughout the equipment list.

I just went through basic Shield and Spear training yesterday doing it Spartan-style. Historically, the spears they wielded were anywhere from 6 to 8 feet long and yeah they could do it one handed. But I'm sure they also had butt-loaded of training and were in excellent shape. I'd probably require a str of at least 16 to wield that spear one handed. Granted, I'm no Spartan myself, but today, I can't use my right arm. If I try to straighten my right arm I'm in pain. I also have trouble gripping anything with my right hand today.

So yeah. Do-able. But unless you get training...you'll be hurting yourself.

No doubt; spears (or short spears) would reasonably be one handed martial weapons, and long spears one handed exotic, in my opinion. Some sort of strength minimum should also apply.

[snoopy13a]

It did not take that much special training to be a hoplite. The Spartans trained constantly but the other Greeks thought it was a waste of time to train that much. The Athenians, Corinthians, Thebians, Arcadians, etc trained for two or three weeks in summer after the harvest was in.

They didn't think hoplite training was that complex. Still, they were all middle class farmers (upper classes were cavalry) so perhaps the Spartans needed to train to develop the strength that the other Greeks obtained through farming their land. The Spartan training may also have been a psychological tool to keep the helots from revolting (Sparta's greatest fear and the whole reason behind their military).

[Hadrian_Emrys]

As far as I know, the standard hoplite spear was around 7 ft. long (though I've heard of longer). Thus I second the notion of requesting that the long spear be treated like the bastard sword. It's not game breaking in the least, while still yet being great flavor.

As for Spartan training, last I heard, it began at age 8 and continued until old age or death. The point of a phalanx was to make a living shield wall composed of men that worked as a unit (as a means to ensure that the sum total of the formation's destructive force was greater than just the already significant abilities of the individuals). The crests on their helmets were so that the men in the front-right of the formation (the veterans and officers) could wordlessly lead direction changes, even in the heat of battle. Spartans were not the wannabe idealised Americans they were shown as in 300 (those characters were more like 'roid-raging Athenians), they were blood and barley soup swilling killing machines.

[Starbuck_II]

As far as I know, the standard hoplite spear was around 7 ft. long (though I've heard of longer). Thus I second the notion of requesting that the long spear be treated like the bastard sword. It's not game breaking in the least, while still yet being great flavor.

Why not just invent a new feat that allows the longspear to be used one handed.

Or make up a new weapon that can be used that way (exotoc of course).

[Zhalath]

I'd go along with whoever said it, and go with a trident. Just say it looks different. As long as a weapon functions the same way, it doesn't matter how it looks.
After all,
Greatsword:

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Greatsword:

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Greatsword:

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and Greatsword:

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Though you could make the case that the last one is a fullblade, but regardless, as long as it functions the same, structure matters not. This isn't cellular biology.

[John Campbell]

I don't think the Spartans used a normal spear* single-handed, as a normal spear is about six or seven feet. The average height of human males has only increased since then, and an above-average male of our time would have difficulty wielding a seven feet spear. At least not without specialized training.

To join in the dogpile: At SCA fighter practice this afternoon, I fought several bouts with a 7.5' polearm in my off hand and a 6' spear in my primary. These are rattan weapons, not boffer stuff... they're pretty close to real weight. This isn't a weapons form I've had special training in (or any training at all... or ever even used before)... I was doing it only because someone made a joke about dual-wielding polearms when they saw me standing with one in each hand (I'd had them tied together for transport and had just finished separating them so I could fight with the 7.5-footer), so I decided to give it a spin. I won one of those bouts (not counting the one where I just dropped the spear and stabbed my opponent in the face with my belt dagger) and made them work for the others. My main problem wasn't the weight of the weapons; it was that they were both so long that I kept getting them fouled on each other and inadvertantly blocking my own shots. I'm not particularly tired or sore now, either, at least not more than I usually am after a fighter practice where I didn't fight goofy weapons forms.

I've fought spear and shield with the 6-footer, too (that's actually what I made it for), and occasionally with a 9-footer. I can do a fencing-style full extension lunge with a 9 foot spear held in one hand just above the buttcap - though I can't keep the tip from dropping once it stops moving.

I'm a fairly big guy - 6' and 210 - and have been doing armored combat for nigh on fifteen years - though never two-spear before today. But I'm not a giant muscle-bound colossus, and more of that 210 is soft than I would like it to be (though not as much as my sister's Wii Fit seems to think), and this is my weekend hobby, not what I do to stay alive.


And, yes, hoplites fought spear-and-shield with spears longer than my little six-footer.

[Knaight]

Coming in to the spear fighting anecdotes. My preferred fighting style is two handed 6 1/2 foot spear. So I have a 6 1/2 foot spear balanced for two handed fighting. I also made a 6 foot and 7 foot for one handed fighting, along with a shield. I'm not a huge person, but not tiny either, about 6 foot, 180 pounds. Probably closer to 5'11 174, but 6 foot 180 is easier to remember. I can manage the 7 foot spear one handed no problem, but the 6 1/2 is difficult in one hand, as I have nothing in the way of a counterweight on it, as it is intended for two handed fighting. If you have a counterweight, 7-8 foot spears are not difficult. And I'm not exactly at the pinnacle of upper body strength either. They are all rattan, and have a realistic weight and balance(I can't stand foam weaponry, way too much wind resistance.)

Of course, D&D isn't exactly well researched for weapons. Take a look at how pathetic they made the sling(and how its a simple weapon). Now go ahead and take a few shots with a sling. You will probably be able to get a respectable range quickly, and it will be extremely difficult to hit a human sized target. Sure, after a while you can get good(I recently slung a tennis ball through a basketball hoop 60 feet away), but its nowhere near as easy to learn to use well as say a club.

[Fhaolan]

Agree with several of the above. 6-7' spear is perfectly capable of being one-handed with the correct training. And not even that much training, to be honest. That size spear was commonly one-handed with a shield in many different cultures and eras, from Spartans to Vikings.

So I would rule as similar to the bastard sword, which is martial 'two-handed' and exotic 'one-handed'. So, given the spear is normally a simple 'two-handed, that would make it martial 'one-handed'.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

I remember a thread a while ago that figured out the value of various weapon capabilities(damage, crit range, usable for special attacks, etc) for use balancing homebrew. Can't find it(lost most of my links a while back), but could be helpful for figuring out one-handed reach capability.

[ZeroNumerous]

You could be mounted and use a Lance. That's a one-handed spear.

[KIDS]

At first I thought that 4E solved this problem but it's still there, the spear is one handed but doesn't have reach so it's the same as if you used the shortspear in 3.5 It's a pity to see such a common fighting style not getting any attention in D&D.

Maybe Longspear could be houseruled to be a simple weapon that can be used one-handed as an exotic weapon, like bastard sword? (I'm figuring that you're not just interested in making a spear one handed, which is nice but lacks reach and doesn't reflect real spears either. Right? If you don't want reach you can just use a Shortspear anyway and ignore the name, as unsatisfactory as that is)

[Oslecamo]

Agree with several of the above. 6-7' spear is perfectly capable of being one-handed with the correct training. And not even that much training, to be honest. That size spear was commonly one-handed with a shield in many different cultures and eras, from Spartans to Vikings.

Just a shame that neither exists in D&D, so the secret of one-handed spear wielding wasn't discovered there.

It's called balance. A spear in D&D is a weapon wich can be thrown, two handed and is simple, so it gets those statistics.

If you want to use a one handed pointy stick get a shortspear or a lance or whatever and call it whatever you like.

What's next? You'll want your spartan to get bonus to AC for being naked?

[Rion]

Just a shame that neither exists in D&D, so the secret of one-handed spear wielding wasn't discovered there.

It's called balance. A spear in D&D is a weapon wich can be thrown, two handed and is simple, so it gets those statistics.

If you want to use a one handed pointy stick get a shortspear or a lance or whatever and call it whatever you like.

What's next? You'll want your spartan to get bonus to AC for being naked?

Why would he want that? The only Spartans that fought unarmoured were the Helot (Slave) hoplites (and they still wore clothes), Spartan citizen hoplites fought armoured with either a breastplate or a linothorax (depending on which period we're talking about) like every other hoplite.

[Talic]

A spear sized for a small character would still have reach and be one-handed.

You'll have to deal with a -2 attack penalty, but that can be worked around.