[3.5] Building a Dwarf

[Archpaladin Zousha]

As many of you know, I'm currently planning out potential characters for an upcoming roleplay next spring, as evidenced in my previous thread "Building a Spellsword," which can be found here.

Not wanting to be married to any one concept, I'm looking for information on another character type that I've been interested in playing. I don't have a definite build to tinker with this time, but I do know a few things that I want for this character.

• The character will be using the same "15 Down" stats of the spellsword build, with a 15, 14, 13, 12, 11 and 10 to place in his stats as he chooses.
• The character MUST be a dwarf
• The character MUST worship Moradin. This means that any prestige classes that require a specific deity besides Moradin are not allowed.
• I want this character to have at least a few levels of cleric and fighter.
• I plan on the character dressing in fullplate, using a heavy steel shield and a dwarven waraxe as weapons.
• I'd like it if he was able to take Craft (armorsmithing) and Craft (weaponsmithing) as well, and maybe even the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat so he could make his own magic weapons and armor, which fits in well for a Moradin worshipper.
• I want the True Believer feat in there somewhere, so the character can wield the Axe of Ancestral Virtue and the Shield of the Resolute, relics of Moradin.
• I don't know what prestige classes, if any, that I can use with this that will make sense from a roleplaying perspective.

This character is much more based on a roleplaying concept than my previous one. In our current campaign, which has come to a close for me, but will have its finale on Friday that I'll learn about via e-mail, the dwarven race has recently lost almost everything. Their homeland has been overrun by fearsome constructs known as the Clockwork Servants, at the behest of a terrifying god calling itself "The Clockwork Spirit." Those dwarves not fortunate enough to escape or be killed were taken and made into Clockwork Speakers (think the Borg). By the end of the campaign, the dwarves will be refugees, a race without a homeland or a leader, their spirits broken.

That's where my character comes in. My character (the tentative name for him will be Ulek Wintervein), was a dwarf prince who was spirited away with the High King when the Clockwork Servants attacked the dwarf capitol. Too young to be a combatant, Ulek was forced to stay on the sidelines while his father was slain be a half-fiend general in the final battle against the Clockwork Servants (this half-fiend was killed by my paladin character). Ulek starts out as angry at the state the dwarves are in after the war. They are homeless and seemingly abandoned by all, their former lands either still under Clockwork occupation, or annexed by the Kingdom of Armorica, or the recently emerged United Empire in the aftermath of the war. He dreams of restoring the Dwarf Kingdoms to their former glory, and then some. Then he recieves visions from Moradin that inspire him to lead his people in reclaiming what is rightfully theirs and making the dwarf race a power again in Thule.

Basically, he'd be a sort of dwarven Joan of Arc.

How would I go about building this fellow? What would be the ideal mix of classes? What prestige classes fit well with the concept? Would something like this still be workable in a high-combat campaign? Any other questions? Comments? Concerns? Criticisms? Flames?

[arkol]

Battlesmith. Check it out in Races of Stone.

[Zaq]

Do you like Incarnum? Ironsoul Forgemaster (From, as you might guess, Magic of Incarnum) is a very flavorful class that fits what you mentioned very well. A Lawful Neutral or Neutral Good Incarnate would fit Moradin pretty well.

Just stay away from Soulborn. Even though the dwarf soulborn substitution levels are all Moradin this and warhammer that, soulborn is a Trap with a capital NO.

[Eldariel]

Are you sure you want those Fighter-levels? Cleric is a martial class too; you needn't dip Fighter to be a warrior. Also, don't you use adaptation? 'Cause basically all Deity-specific classes have Adaptation and Moradin would work fine for Ordained Champion - some order of Moradin's Hammers (there's the Hammer of Moradin-class too, but you can't enter it before level 8 really, and it's not a casting class so the "Cleric"-aspect is kinda lost; still, Handbook exists for making them if you're interested). Because Ordained Champion sounds to be exactly what you want.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Firstly, I don't have Magic of Incarnum, and secondly, I doubt my DM would approve that supplement. I'd appreciate it if I didn't have to use very divergent books like Magic of Incarnum, Tome of Battle or Tome of Magic, or campaign setting specific books like the Forgotten Realms sourcebooks. I have the Player's Handbook, most of the Complete Series (including Complete Divine and Complete Champion.) I don't own Races of Stone, but I can check it out from the library. I also cannot use stuff from the Book of Exalted Deeds.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Are you sure you want those Fighter-levels? Cleric is a martial class too; you needn't dip Fighter to be a warrior. Also, don't you use adaptation? 'Cause basically all Deity-specific classes have Adaptation and Moradin would work fine for Ordained Champion - some order of Moradin's Hammers (there's the Hammer of Moradin-class too, but you can't enter it before level 8 really, and it's not a casting class so the "Cleric"-aspect is kinda lost; still, Handbook exists for making them if you're interested).

I really only want one fighter level for Martial Weapon proficiencies. A Dwarven Waraxe may not be an exotic weapon for a dwarf, but clerics aren't proficient with it, and taking the War domain (which I don't think I can do with Moradin anyway) wouldn't give me proficiency with it either (Moradin's favored weapon being the warhammer.)

[Eldariel]

I really only want one fighter level for Martial Weapon proficiencies. A Dwarven Waraxe may not be an exotic weapon for a dwarf, but clerics aren't proficient with it, and taking the War domain (which I don't think I can do with Moradin anyway) wouldn't give me proficiency with it either (Moradin's favored weapon being the warhammer.)

Wait, you want to be a Cleric of Moradin who doesn't use Moradin's favoured weapon?! Blasphemy! Eh, anyways, Martial Weapon Proficiency is also a feat. If you want Dwarven War Axe, you can surely pick it up as a feat. I wouldn't bother soiling my feet in Fighter-levels. As a note, Ordained Champion allows trading domain granted powers for Fighter-feats. If you were a Cleric 4/Ordained Champion of Moradin..., you could trade the Domain Granted Power of anything for Martial Weapon Prof. That's what I'd do.

Of course, if the adaptation doesn't fly, you couldn't take Ordained Champion. Battlesmith is like Hammer of Moradin - it gains no spells. Too bad you can't pick up Ruby Knight Vindicator - it'd again fit straight in the eye with adaptation for Moradin. Frankly, you could consider Sacred Exorcist, Contemplative, Divine Disciple or another generic Cleric PrC since without adaptation, there's really no martially minded caster PrC for Clerics of Moradin.

[Fhaolan]

Having read other threads you've posted to... this one's going to make you giggle.... why not a Paladin?

[AgentPaper]

Are clerics even allowed to use axes by RAW? I mean, nobody really pays too much attention to that specific part, at least that I know of, but I'm pretty sure they can't use swords or axes. Or maybe they just don't get proficiency in them? Eh.

Anyways, 1-2 fighter levels are a solid choice. More than that will make him significantly less powerful for no major return, but they won't make him explode in uselessness, like some would lead you to believe. The first level nets you full proficiencies and a feat, and another level gives you another feat, which is not to be underestimated. 3 levels gets you nothing, but if you go for 4 levels, that brings your BAB up just high enough to get you 4 iterative attacks at level 20, and another feat. You'd probably (definitely) be better off with 2 more cleric levels instead, to get 9th level spells, but it's there.

[tyckspoon]

Are clerics even allowed to use axes by RAW? I mean, nobody really pays too much attention to that specific part, at least that I know of, but I'm pretty sure they can't use swords or axes. Or maybe they just don't get proficiency in them? Eh.

"Bludgeoning Weapons only" went out with 2nd Edition. Modern clerical weapon restrictions are indeed only by proficiency; they're normally only proficient with Simple weapons, and maybe their deity's favored weapon if they take the War domain.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Are clerics even allowed to use axes by RAW? I mean, nobody really pays too much attention to that specific part, at least that I know of, but I'm pretty sure they can't use swords or axes. Or maybe they just don't get proficiency in them? Eh.

Anyways, 1-2 fighter levels are a solid choice. More than that will make him significantly less powerful for no major return, but they won't make him explode in uselessness, like some would lead you to believe. The first level nets you full proficiencies and a feat, and another level gives you another feat, which is not to be underestimated. 3 levels gets you nothing, but if you go for 4 levels, that brings your BAB up just high enough to get you 4 iterative attacks at level 20, and another feat. You'd probably (definitely) be better off with 2 more cleric levels instead, to get 9th level spells, but it's there.

I specifically checked that. I believe that clerics can use simple weapons, of which the warhammer is one, but not martial weapons, which is what waraxes are for dwarves. Really I was only planning on taking one or two fighter levels, if any at all.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Having read other threads you've posted to... this one's going to make you giggle.... why not a Paladin?

Wondering when someone'd ask this.

Basically because I played a paladin in the last game, and I wanna break out of my "paladin-only" habit. I know a cleric isn't really moving too far out of that, but it's at least a start.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Wait, you want to be a Cleric of Moradin who doesn't use Moradin's favoured weapon?! Blasphemy! Eh, anyways, Martial Weapon Proficiency is also a feat. If you want Dwarven War Axe, you can surely pick it up as a feat. I wouldn't bother soiling my feet in Fighter-levels. As a note, Ordained Champion allows trading domain granted powers for Fighter-feats. If you were a Cleric 4/Ordained Champion of Moradin..., you could trade the Domain Granted Power of anything for Martial Weapon Prof. That's what I'd do.

Of course, if the adaptation doesn't fly, you couldn't take Ordained Champion. Battlesmith is like Hammer of Moradin - it gains no spells. Too bad you can't pick up Ruby Knight Vindicator - it'd again fit straight in the eye with adaptation for Moradin. Frankly, you could consider Sacred Exorcist, Contemplative, Divine Disciple or another generic Cleric PrC since without adaptation, there's really no martially minded caster PrC for Clerics of Moradin.

What are some generic martially minded caster PrCs then? I know Contemplative is interesting, having read it before, but it seems more like something for a Buddhist monk-type character, rather than a Joan of Arc-like warrior priest.

What's a Divine Disciple?

[RagnaroksChosen]

I would suggest

Cleric 1/ Dwarf Paragon 1/ cleric 4/ warpriest + some other prcs

Dwarf paragon sounds like it would fit I would suggest battlesmith from ROTW as well. (asking you dm to change the hammerness to Axeness)


Also why are you going with the Axe theme rather then the more traditional hammer theme?

[tyckspoon]

Hm. Frankly, most of the good martial spellcaster PrCs are for arcane gishes. You could try Warpriest, perhaps; it'd have pretty much the same effect as taking a couple of Fighter levels (a little rough on your skillpoints, but you could get in after level 7. D10 HD, Martial weapon profs, half casting advancement, full BAB, some abilities based around being an inspiring figure to your friends. Most of 'em can be covered pretty well by Cleric spells, tho. Mechanically a poor choice, fits your story nicely.)

Also, your backstory sounds a heck of a lot like a Favored Soul to me. I wouldn't like trying to do it on the 15-down scheme you've described, since it really wants like 3-4 16's (casting stat, Strength, Con at a minimum for pretending to be a melee fighter) but that's not all that different from the stat dependency you'd have in your current setup.

[Hurlbut]

I specifically checked that. I believe that clerics can use simple weapons, of which the warhammer is one, but not martial weapons, which is what waraxes are for dwarves. Really I was only planning on taking one or two fighter levels, if any at all.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

Warhammer's a martial weapon, not simple

[Greg]

The dwarven fighter 1st-level substitution level could be worth a look. You get a d12HD, and weapon focus for a few axes.

Suboptimal maybe, but it seems to fit with your concept.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I would suggest

Cleric 1/ Dwarf Paragon 1/ cleric 4/ warpriest + some other prcs

Dwarf paragon sounds like it would fit I would suggest battlesmith from ROTW as well. (asking you dm to change the hammerness to Axeness)


Also why are you going with the Axe theme rather then the more traditional hammer theme?

Because the Axe of Ancestral Virtue, one of Moradin's relics, is a dwarven waraxe, rather than a warhammer. Seems rather impractical when you think about it but dwarven waraxes ARE the signature weapon of dwarves. If you don't have one, you're not dwarfy enough!

Also I had originally planned this to be a dwarf cleric of Heironeous who uses Hieroneous's traditional weapon of the battleaxe rather than the more recently used longsword. As the concept evolved into what it is now, I dropped the Heironeous worshipping bit, since my previous character was a Heironean paladin and a dwarf who wants to rule his people probably isn't going to attract as many dwarves to follow him if he doesn't worship the main dwarf god.

[AgentPaper]

I've always seen the hammer as basically the ultimate symbol of dwarfiness. I would suggest asking your DM if he could homebrew the axe to be a warhammer instead, to make it more dwarfy and to fit with your character, who is a dwarf (hammer!) who worships Moradin (hammer!) and is a blacksmith (hammer!) who loves hammers. (hammer!)
(hammer!)
(hammer!)

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I dunno...that might end up risking "Stop! Hammertime!" jokes.

[Studoku]

I've always seen the hammer as basically the ultimate symbol of dwarfiness. I would suggest asking your DM if he could homebrew the axe to be a warhammer instead, to make it more dwarfy and to fit with your character, who is a dwarf (hammer!) who worships Moradin (hammer!) and is a blacksmith (hammer!) who loves hammers. (hammer!)
(hammer!)
(hammer!)

Stop. Hammertime.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I knew it!

[AgentPaper]

Eh, fine then, but let me axe you a question. Which do you prefer, old references or bad puns?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Bad puns for me any day!

[Eldariel]

What are some generic martially minded caster PrCs then? I know Contemplative is interesting, having read it before, but it seems more like something for a Buddhist monk-type character, rather than a Joan of Arc-like warrior priest.

Pretty much the ones I listed:
Ruby Knight Vindicator [ToB] & Ordained Champion [CC]

Both are deity-specific and thus require adaptation (it's not hard to adapt either for Moradin though). That's the whole problem - other attempts at warrior clerics have been rather big failures (see: Warpriest) or uninteresting (see: Fist of Raziel; please note that Fist of Raziel is BoED class hence why I didn't suggest it).

What's a Divine Disciple?

Ah, it's a 5-level prestige class from Player's Guide to Faerun (yes, yes, I know, you're restricted from the source; I just brought it up as an example) that brings you closer to your deity, making you an Outsider on level 5. Now that I think about it, Church Inquisitor could sorta work. But you'd sorta have to reflavour it. It feels basically every class you could play requires some amount of reflavouring to get the "warrior priest" thing down.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Come to think of it Church Inquisitor doesn't sound so bad. They get full spellcasting and defenses against mental attacks, right?

[Eldariel]

Come to think of it Church Inquisitor doesn't sound so bad. They get full spellcasting and defenses against mental attacks, right?

Yes, Church Inquisitor is a great class. My worries were more on the flavour-side of things. But yeah, if you can, go for it. Basically, they become more resilient to all forms of magic (gain a ton of immunities) and improved Dispelling & the ability to detect evil constantly.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Sounds swell! I'll work on a potential build, see if it'll be any good.

[Eldariel]

Oh yeah, and those relics? Remember that you're a Cleric - Clerics can sacrifice a spell slot instead of picking True Believer to use Relics. Just FYI; you'll probably be rather feat starved so it's probably the lesser cost.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Hmm...I'll keep that in mind. Thanks for the suggestion.