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Thread: The XP Machine
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2009-05-07, 04:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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The XP Machine
I came up with this while designing a Tippy-esque army. We stopped after I finished this and we had level 27 balors rampaging around the countryside
The XP Machine; 90000 gp
Greater Planar Binding Trap; (8x15x500=60000 gp)
Orb of Force Trap; (4x7x500=14000 gp)
Permanent binding circle in the middle of the “machine”; (~16000 gp)
How it works:
1. The machine calls a pit fiend into the circle.
2. A commoner decides that he wants to go see what this interesting machine that everyone is talking about is.
3. He sees the machine, and pulls the lever on the side.
4. This triggers the Orb trap, dealing 7d6 damage to the Pit Fiend.
5. The commoner, being persistent, keeps pulling the lever.
6. On average, it takes about 10 or 11 shocks to kill it. (255=7d6X; 255=24.5X; 10.408=X)
7. The commoner gains a lot of XP.
8. And…guess what? The commoner can do it again, and again, and again…until he reaches 27th level, when you no longer gain XP from defeating Pit Fiends.
Questions, Comments?
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2009-05-07, 04:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2008
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Re: The XP Machine
He didn't attack the balor or in any way overcome it, the mage who created the 'machine' did. So he doesn't get XP.
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2009-05-07, 04:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The XP Machine
The Trap is just a stationary version of an at-will orb of force magic item. Would it be better if we just used those?
Or how about a wand. You would just have to pay if you wanted to use it, and therefore couldnt make every commoner on the face of the earth epic leveled.Last edited by Olo Demonsbane; 2009-05-07 at 04:36 PM.
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2009-05-07, 04:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The XP Machine
I believe somewhere the EXP rules state that one has to be threatened or overcome a challenge in some way to gain EXP. This machine doesn't seem to provide either challenge or any sort of threat.
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2009-05-07, 04:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-05-07, 04:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The XP Machine
I just reread this entire section of the DMG. The only thing that it can do is lower the EL by 2 and give Half as much XP. Thanks for the catch though.
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2009-05-07, 04:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-05-07, 05:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The XP Machine
Absolutely wrong. No challenge, No XP.
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2009-05-07, 05:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The XP Machine
The Playgrounder Formerly Known as rtg0922
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2009-05-07, 05:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The XP Machine
Nah. Better yet:
1. make a thirty-to-forty foot high box (high enough to do damage, but not high enough to kill you.) A trap door will have to be built about three-to-five feet up, low enough that the frogs won't die from the fall (make sure it opens inward).
2. Make a spell that summons a lot of frogs. 10 million should do.
3.Summon the frogs into the pit. Since frogs don't take up any vertical space (it's in the MM, can't find it on the SRD), you can have an unlimited number of frogs.
4. Cast a stoneskin spell on yourself and ready a teleportation spell. Jump down into the box. The damage from you falling on the frogs will instantly kill many frogs, and since each frog is 1/8 of a challenge rating, it adds up.
5. Gain a crapload of experience.RIP Gary Gygax, March 4th, 2008. May he roll 20's in heaven forever.
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SpoilerOriginally Posted by havocfett
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2009-05-07, 05:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-05-07, 05:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The XP Machine
Siela Tempo by the talented Kasanip. Tengu by myself.
Spoiler
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2009-05-07, 06:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2009
Re: The XP Machine
Step 1. Get some trolls.
Step 2. Give them rings of sustenance.
Step 3. Cast Insanity on them.
Step 4. ???
Step 5. Profit!
For those who can't figure out how this works:
Trolls have regeneration, meaning a troll can't kill another troll without. Rings of sustenance negates the need to eat or drink (which trolls do need to do, being giants and not outsiders). Insanity is a permanent confusion effect, which has a chance, each round, to force one of the trolls to attack the nearest living creature (another troll). Confused creatures automatically retaliate against the creature that attacked them the round prior. So now you have a bunch of trolls that will do nothing but beat each other into the negatives forever.
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2009-05-07, 08:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-05-07, 10:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The XP Machine
I'm going to have to side with the "there's no challenge in it so you get no XP for it" argument here. The entire purpose of the machine is to completely remove all challenge from the encounter, and you get experience for overcoming challanges, therefore no challenge = no XP. If you houserule that the person doing it would get XP for it anyway, you might as well just houserule that they were born at level 27 and skip the middleman.
Also, I imagine the pit fiends would be kinda pissed off that they were being summoned constantly for no reason other than to serve as cattle. I'd expect the life of the creator of such a machine to end very unpleasantly not long after he started using it.
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2009-05-07, 10:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The XP Machine
All right, It doesn't work, never mind.
How about this:
Same thing, only you are inside the box with the Pit Fiend and the Box is very long. With an antimagic field at the other end where the Devil is. Summoned AFTER he got there. He comes charging at you...if you dont pull the lever, you will die. This lever is a lot more powerfull than the previous one, killing the Pit fiend in one shot.
Would that work? Now there is some challenge. Even if it only give 10% experiance, that would only mean that you have to kill 10 times as more.
And yes, I know, the Nine Lords are coming for me
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2009-05-07, 10:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The XP Machine
The 'official' Tippyverse XP machine is to just line up a bunch of people and have them nonlethally beat the crap out each other with a trap of Cure X Wounds nearby to revive the losers and prep everybody for the next round. It fits the basic requirements for gaining xp (the participants are acting directly against an equal opponent); even if you sensibly give the minimum possible xp for it because it's nonlethal and has no particular consequences for winning/losing, the participants will still level sooner or later. They can keep doing it as long as they need to, and they'll never outlevel their opponents.
Would that work?Last edited by tyckspoon; 2009-05-07 at 11:01 PM.
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2009-05-07, 11:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The XP Machine
Tippyverse militaries are trained thusly.
Sergeant: Here are your rings of sustenance and merciful weapon. After this briefing you will go to The Pit, where you will train in a live combat situation. This training will only end when you can fight your way out through higher ranking officers. Good luck.
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2009-05-07, 11:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
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- Boston, MA
Re: The XP Machine
The idea of XP is that you are getting better at stuff because you have more experience (hence the term experience points). If a fighter fights a lot he should get better at fighting. I know this isn't a perfect simulation of that but that's the basic motivation behind xp. That's not substantially occurring with this balor killing machine.
I'd be inclined to argue that the hypothetical Tippy version mentioned by _ is actually giving the people experience fighting. In that situation, it thus makes sense that they should get XP. People training to fight get better at fighting if they train rigorously, even if the actual danger is low.
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2009-05-08, 03:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The XP Machine
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2009-05-08, 04:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The XP Machine
This whole thread reinforces my belief that someone determined to turn every humanoid in the world into an Epic-level player character would make a GREAT campaign antagonist.
Especially given the inherent cruelty of throwing everyone old enough to gain class levels into a pit to fight until they become real warriors.
That said, it wouldn't work too well for wizzards... how would a Wizard gain XP without any risk of inflicting or suffering death? Maybe Lord Makeyouallepic have to research some non-lethal evocations...
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2009-05-08, 08:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The XP Machine
A) It is a wand-thingy of orb of force...You can hit something in an AMF.
B) There is some challenge. If you miss it three times in a row, it can get out of the AMF and blow you to bits.
But yeah, the Tippy-verse idea is probably a better idea...I like this one though...you are playing what appears to be a video game and gaining magical powers
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2009-05-08, 04:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The XP Machine
Actually, after a few dozen times of summoning Pit Fiends and killing them with orbs of force, eventually some super high-level demon monster is going to show up and demand who's messing with his Pit Fiend servants.
At which point the level 1 commoner/ level 23 button-pusher guy (a base class that provides absolutly no extra hit points attack or defense bonuses special abilities or feats even from just leveling up) will get to face off against some freaky epic level monster who will probably destroy the commoner by looking at him.
At which point the Epic SuperMonster will get lots of XP from killing the Epic commoner/button-pusher and then proceed to make his own private beach-front property using the blood of the innocent in place of an ocean and their ground up bones in place of sand.
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2009-05-08, 04:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The XP Machine
even if you sensibly give the minimum possible xp for it because it's nonlethal and has no particular consequences for winning/losing, the participants will still level sooner or later.Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
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2009-05-08, 05:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The XP Machine
...Except that it'll be a 1 commoner / 26 Wizard armed with Wish at the absolute least, not to mention the thousand other 1 commoner / 26 (Insert any legitimate PC class) who will be fighting alongside him. If you don't want this machine to do exactly what it is meant to do, you should just veto it entirely, not try to justify a malfunction.
Logically, if you're going to deny EXP for using a machine to defeat your opponents instead of using your own power, then anything killed or charmed with a wand provides zero XP. After all, a wand isn't the user's own power is it?
Originally Posted by Chronos
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2009-05-08, 05:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The XP Machine
New and improved version fixed that by attaching an angry houscat to the machine.
The houscat also has a level in commoner.
The commoner is challenged in getting to the machine to use it with a cat attacking him. The cat is challenged with defending its territory from a commoner. Both gain Exp. Yeaaaa!Last edited by Stormthorn; 2009-05-08 at 05:21 PM.
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2009-05-08, 05:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The XP Machine
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2009-05-08, 07:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-05-08, 07:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-05-08, 07:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The XP Machine
This might work in 4e, although you would have to work out the experience value of the trap and subtract that from the XP award for the pit fiend.
However, you would probably end up losing XP even though 4e is not supposed to go around de-levelling you...