Warrior Necromancer Build. Is this Good

[EdroGrimshell]

My old character recently died (drew a void from a deck of many things), so i've created a new character that is a warrior and necromancer. i plan on using the following build:

Grey Elf:
Str 11, Dex 19, Con 12, Int 20, Wis 10, Cha 13
01-Wizard (Focused Necromancer)-Sudden Extend (more useful for the build)
02-Fighter-Weapon Finesse
03-Wizard-Skill Focus (Knowledge [religion])
04-Wizard-+1 Dex
05-Wizard-
06-Wizard-Fell Animate, Easy Metamagic (Fell Animate)
07-Spellsword- (for the ability to ignore arcane spell failure, combined with +1 twilight breastplate and a Mithral light shield is a good defense boost)
08-Wizard-+1 Str
09-Pale Master-Practiced Spellcaster
10-Pale Master-
11-Eldritch Knight-Improved Toughness
12-Eldritch Knight-Arcane Strike-+1 Con
13-Eldritch Knight-
14-Eldritch Knight-
15-Eldritch Knight-Open Feat
16-Eldritch Knight-+1 Con
17-Eldritch Knight-
18-Eldritch Knight-Open Feat
19-Eldritch Knight-
20-Eldritch Knight-+1 Cha

His Prohibited Schools are Abjuration, Illusion, and Enchantment

He gets:
+16 BAB
+13 Fort
+13 Will
+5 Ref
9th level spells
Caster Level 20
Animate Dead 1/day as a spell-like ability
and spells per day as a 17th level wizard
He has a hedgehog familiar granting him a +1 natural armor bonus

Is this any good.

Edits: added a level of spell sword. i have to have all armor proficiencies, so fighter not swashbuckler

[Faleldir]

Have you tried a Dread Necromancer? They can wear armor, have some useful class features for close combat, and could qualify for Divine Metamagic if you ignore the "divine" in the feat's name. Seriously, that's the only argument against.

P.S. Next time you find a DOMT, put it in a Handy Haversack.

[EdroGrimshell]

Yes, but my DM doesn't allow dread necro

What's a DOMT

[Another_Poet]

DOMT = deck of many things.

Many people feel that Eldritch Knight is underpowered but if your group uses mostly core classes your build looks good. If I were you I would switch my fighter level and my first level of wizard just so 1st level is more survivable.

Also, if it's allowed consider a level of Duskblade instead of Fighter. Should give you the BAB or whatever you need for Eldritch Knight. It also lets you cast in light armour with no arcane spell failure! It's a pretty basic class from (I think) PHBII. Your DM will probably allow it after a quick read through.

ap

[EdroGrimshell]

DOMT = deck of many things.

Many people feel that Eldritch Knight is underpowered but if your group uses mostly core classes your build looks good. If I were you I would switch my fighter level and my first level of wizard just so 1st level is more survivable.

Also, if it's allowed consider a level of Duskblade instead of Fighter. Should give you the BAB or whatever you need for Eldritch Knight. It also lets you cast in light armour with no arcane spell failure! It's a pretty basic class from (I think) PHBII. Your DM will probably allow it after a quick read through.

We already started the character and we already have a duskblade. the armored mage only works with the duskblade spells. i will be getting twilight armor soon, so no worries on armor.

I was hoping for another class than fighter that gives basically the same thing, and maybe a replacement for the EK, i couldn't locate anything easily accessable.

[RTGoodman]

Also, if it's allowed consider a level of Duskblade instead of Fighter. Should give you the BAB or whatever you need for Eldritch Knight. It also lets you cast in light armour with no arcane spell failure! It's a pretty basic class from (I think) PHBII. Your DM will probably allow it after a quick read through.

Duskblade, like basically every other armored casting class, only lets you ignore spell failure from armor with spells FROM THAT CLASS. The only exceptions, I think, are the PrCs that give you armored casting (like Eldritch Knight, etc.), and Spellthief with the Master Spellthief feat.

EDIT: Doh, ninja'd by the OP.

If you're just looking at a Fighter level for some survivability, BAB, and the Weapon Finesse feat, take a look at Complete Warrior's Swashbuckler class. They get d10 HD, I believe, a few other neat things, Weapon Finesse for free at 1st level, AND Int to damage with finesse weapons starting at 3rd level.

As far as Gish PrCs, Abjurant Champion is a common one, a Spellsword dip is occasionally recommended, and there are few others that work. Just Google "Gish Optimization" or "Gish Build" or something and you'll find some advice.

[Olo Demonsbane]

You can also use the Fighter ACF from Complete Mage to wear light armor.

[RTGoodman]

You can also use the Fighter ACF from Complete Mage to wear light armor.

Read that ACF again - it actually SUCKS. It only allows you to ignore ASF for spells of levels less than or equal to your FIGHTER LEVEL. So you can dip one level for it, but you only ignore the ASF for 0- and 1st-level spells. You can take more Fighter levels, but then you're losing out on, well, most everything except a couple of feats and BAB; if you take more spellcasting levels, you still can't cast in armor, and PrCs don't help either.

[Haven]

If you're just looking at a Fighter level for some survivability, BAB, and the Weapon Finesse feat, take a look at Complete Warrior's Swashbuckler class. They get d10 HD, I believe, a few other neat things, Weapon Finesse for free at 1st level, AND Int to damage with finesse weapons starting at 3rd level.

Yeah, if Weapon Finesse is what you're using your fighter bonus feat on, I don't think there's a reason not to take Swashbuckler instead. It'll get you more skill points, and if you can stand to take two more levels in it, int to damage.

Plus, the thought of a swashbuckling necromancer is just too much awesome.

[EdroGrimshell]

That may work, i do intend to wield a rapier the entire time, but, its exactly the same thing except for their skill points, which i already have planned fairly well. anyway i might not be able to take it anyway. my DM has been kind of anti-non-core material lately.

[Myrmex]

One level of spellsword is a good filler level. Abjurant champion is an excellent full casting/full BAB 5 level class with solid abilities. Just don't ban abjuration.

I recommend having at least 13 strength (easy to get with an item or a spell) so you can pick up power attack. It's a very good source of damage, especially when combined with arcane strike.

[Maerok]

Heh, a decent level Chameleon could go Divine/Martial or Arcane/Martial, along with all the good stuff of what you used to qualify for it.

Or... HORNED HARBINGER!!! It's in Faerun's Faiths and Pantheons book.

[Justin B.]

With an Intelligence as high as that, it may be worth going to Swashbuckler 3, depending on the amount of caster levels you are willing to lose.

[Salt_Crow]

With an Intelligence as high as that, it may be worth going to Swashbuckler 3, depending on the amount of caster levels you are willing to lose.

Nah, Int to damage isn't worth losing the ability to defy physics.

[EdroGrimshell]

Nah, Int to damage isn't worth losing the ability to defy physics.

I agree with you crow, now, i am adamant about my banned schools, the others offer more than enough to make up for the loss.

I do not like the abjurant champion, just not what i'm looking for.

Now, the swashbuckler is a good idea, i will ask my DM today.

[InaVegt]

Read that ACF again - it actually SUCKS. It only allows you to ignore ASF for spells of levels less than or equal to your FIGHTER LEVEL. So you can dip one level for it, but you only ignore the ASF for 0- and 1st-level spells. You can take more Fighter levels, but then you're losing out on, well, most everything except a couple of feats and BAB; if you take more spellcasting levels, you still can't cast in armor, and PrCs don't help either.

In gestalt it can be a pretty good idea, however.

[Myrmex]

I agree with you crow, now, i am adamant about my banned schools, the others offer more than enough to make up for the loss.

Is there any reason you're keeping evocation? Uttercold blasting? Otherwise, being both melee and having damaging spells is rather redundant.

I do not like the abjurant champion, just not what i'm looking for.

Why? It's pretty much a flavorless gish in a can. It advances both BAB and casting, and you can give it whatever flavor you want. It has solid mechanics, and does not clash whatsoever with your idea of a necromancer that hits things.


Some other suggestions:
If you decide to go uttercold (feat intensive), you may want to get the Tomb-Touched Soul feat, which lets you gain HP from negative energy.
Another alternative is become undead yourself, with the Necropolitan template. It has no LA, and without a con score, that is one less ability score you have to worry about.
Pick up power attack. If you are going to be wasting your standard action and spell slots hitting things, you should at least do some damage.
Get an undead familiar (or cohort) and spellstitch it. It gives it spells you can cast as spell like abilities a few times/day based off the creatures wisdom score. You can also spellstitch yourself. It's kinda cheesy, though.

[RTGoodman]

In gestalt it can be a pretty good idea, however.

Eh, I guess it's better in gestalt, but it still means 9 levels of plain ol' Fighter to be able to use it for your highest-level spells. Or rather, probably 10 levels since, well, you shouldn't take odd numbers of Fighter levels. I suppose you could go with the Dungeoncrasher ACF, too, which takes (I think) 6 levels to get the full benefit, meaning you're not wasting time on just getting feats.

[wadledo]

9 levels with that fear focused variant wouldn't be horrible.
But only if you were focusing on fear, and even then, you could do much better.

[Faleldir]

Eh, I guess it's better in gestalt, but it still means 9 levels of plain ol' Fighter to be able to use it for your highest-level spells. Or rather, probably 10 levels since, well, you shouldn't take odd numbers of Fighter levels. I suppose you could go with the Dungeoncrasher ACF, too, which takes (I think) 6 levels to get the full benefit, meaning you're not wasting time on just getting feats.

Dungeon Crasher/Master Of The Unseen Hand//Wizard/Argent Savant sounds great! I'm going to write that down!

[Benejeseret]

Not sure if you have already rejected these - but have you looked into the variant SRD necromancer swaps?

Skeletal minion replaces familiar. The skel is not great, but with the extra HD from your levels and the NA/Str/Dex bonuses from your character level it means you always have a defender/mook standing with you in the thick of it. Compare to +1NA from a hedgehog and I see a clear winner for a mere 100g if it gets destroyed. Plus, since it is your 'familiar' it does not count toward HD of undead controlled.

Talk to your DM about the skel might grant a few extra bonus's such as 1) it is not explicit whether it must stay a human skeleton or whether you can get better forms based on its HD as you level (Does anyone have a clarification on this?). If so, it could even become a decent mount.

Finally, it is also unclear if it acts like a familiar that it replaces. Does it share spells/deliver touch spells like a familiar? Ask your DM as he might OK such things and it would double your buffing output.


Undead Apotheosis (Ex) Good but not great if you are needing those wizard bonus feats for the build.

Enhanced Undead (Ex) Definitely a good one if you are looking at using Fell Animate a bunch. Also applies to your Skeletal Minion (yay!).

If you have some feats free I too support power attack, but you could also consider Spell Thesis to lower Fell Animate on your favorite killer spell to +1, or some of the Corpse Crafter feats from LM.

Your DM may allow Enhanced Undead (Ex) to replace the prerequisite Corpsecrafter feat as they are basically the exact same and let you just go straight to the cold damage/exploding/speedy minion feats.

[EdroGrimshell]

Not sure if you have already rejected these - but have you looked into the variant SRD necromancer swaps?

Skeletal minion replaces familiar. The skel is not great, but with the extra HD from your levels and the NA/Str/Dex bonuses from your character level it means you always have a defender/mook standing with you in the thick of it. Compare to +1NA from a hedgehog and I see a clear winner for a mere 100g if it gets destroyed. Plus, since it is your 'familiar' it does not count toward HD of undead controlled.

Talk to your DM about the skel might grant a few extra bonus's such as 1) it is not explicit whether it must stay a human skeleton or whether you can get better forms based on its HD as you level (Does anyone have a clarification on this?). If so, it could even become a decent mount.

Finally, it is also unclear if it acts like a familiar that it replaces. Does it share spells/deliver touch spells like a familiar? Ask your DM as he might OK such things and it would double your buffing output.

Well, this would be a dud as it advances based on my wizard level (only six). My modifications to the original build may help.

As to why i kept evocation, magic missile is useful, as are a few other select spells from the school. i do not plan on being a blaster, but some of the spells fit the theme better than those from other schools. also i am researching a spell of the evocation and necromancy school, so losing evocation would be useless.

Aditionally, i don't want to be undead, i want a non-evil necromancer, one that relies on the tools of evil to do good, and remains living.

[kpenguin]

If you're willing to give up the arcane side of necromancy for divine, you could go for Bone Knight. It's a pretty good melee class with the ability to grow bone armor, gather together armies of skeletons, summon a bone mount etc. with 9/10 divine caster progression.

It's a setting-specific prestige class, but can easily be re-fluffed.

[ChaosDefender24]

How do you intend to augment your melee prowess with necromantic spells? Usually people go with transmutation spells (polymorph, bite of the X, etc.) when they want to make a gish build

Or are you trying to make what would otherwise be a vanilla necromancer who isn't dead meat as soon as someone closes in on him?

[EdroGrimshell]

How do you intend to augment your melee prowess with necromantic spells? Usually people go with transmutation spells (polymorph, bite of the X, etc.) when they want to make a gish build

Or are you trying to make what would otherwise be a vanilla necromancer who isn't dead meat as soon as someone closes in on him?

The second one. Plus arcane strike helps

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Dread Necromancer, Heroes of Horror(IIRC). Gets light armor, spontaneous casting of almost all necro spells, the ability to heal himself at-will for a feat, and the ability to drop an AoE on himself and everyone around him, and a near-infinite number of personal guards.

...

[EdroGrimshell]

Dread Necromancer, Heroes of Horror(IIRC). Gets light armor, spontaneous casting of almost all necro spells, the ability to heal himself at-will for a feat, and the ability to drop an AoE on himself and everyone around him, and a near-infinite number of personal guards.

...

I can't use the DN. I believe a said that earlier in the thread. I would have selected the DN if i could

[ChaosDefender24]

Honestly? If you're intending to stick to the back and be ready for something that comes your way, it's not worth your effort any more than a nice Polymorph/Draconic Polymorph can do. That combined with any of your other defensive buffs will make it very hard to hit you, and pick a strong form (ideally one with natural attacks as opposed to something that likes iterative attacks) and you'll be able to dish out enough damage for them to retreat.. It's just a few spell slots. The rest of your build should be wholly devoted to your necromancy, or else you'll be spread much too thin for the niche you're trying to occupy.

If you wanted to go that extra measure, take the Mother Cyst feat. I like it anyway because it gives you an unlimited army of brain-controlled servants, but it also grants you access to a quite powerful 8th-level defensive spell. Flaaavorful.