Bard Optimization

[danminator]

Hey all. I'm joining a previous game, and I want to play a bard. I was thinking about a few different builds, but I'm not allowed to multi-class or use psionics. Apart from that, every source book is cool. We play with 3.5E

I'm starting at level five, and I rolled up 12, 11, 18, 12, 16, and 16. Again, I'm allowed to use any source but psionics, but I don't want to have to consult a different sourcebook every turn.

Any suggestions are appreciated =D

[Eldariel]

Are Prestige Classes allowed? Also, what do you want to focus on? Bards can be primarily:
Melee combatants (obviously with heavy focus on Inspire Courage)
Arcane casters (requires PrCs to truly shine)
Support casters (obviously with heavy focus on the songs)
Ranged combatants (again, Inspire Courage)


They'll be decent in everything else too, but focusing and having a primary role is a good idea. Where you should start as a Bard:

Song Improvements:
-Haunting Melody [ECS]
-Words of Creation [BoED]
-Song of the Heart [ECS]
along with spells and items (Inspirational Boost [SC], Vest of Legends [DMGII], Mw. Drums [CAdv], etc.)

Melee:
-Snowflake Wardance [Frost]
-Two-Weapon Fighting [PHB] (and Improved/Greater) or Power Attack [PHB] (former works better with Song-boosts though)
-Weapon Finesse [PHB]/Shadow Blade [ToB]

Range:
-Rapid Shot [PHB]
-Ancestral Relic [BoED] or Item Familiar [UA] (ranged combatant generally wants a heavily enhanced weapon)

Casting:
-Metamagic Song [RoS]
-Melodic Casting [CMage]
-Extend Spell [PHB]/Quicken Spell [PHB]/Empower Spell [PHB]/Chain Spell [CArc]/Generic Metamagic
-Rapid Metamagic [CArc]


Other than that, prestige classes, items and spell choices are the principal ways to customize your Bards. Oh, and skills - you can focus your skill points in many ways. The only standards are that you should max at least one Perform and Use Magic Device. Other than that, the sky's the limit.

I'd probably use your ability scores as follows:
Str 11
Dex 16
Con 16
Int 12
Wis 12
Cha 18

Or switch around Dex, Con and Int to leave the 12 in probably Dex (Con is a tad more important due to Fort-saves being harder for you and HP helping to mitigate Reflex saves anyways) and 16 Int for Words of Creation and skillpoints.

Of course, the type of character you wanna play also impacts this, but the archetypal Bard is more smart than wise (or in Elan's case, neither).

[danminator]

Thanks for the reply.

The campaign I'm joining has a wizard/cleric, a skirmisher, and a dwarven fighter tank. I'd prefer being a ranged combatant after songs. What is ECS? I don't have that source book.

Which stat is most important for a bard? I've never played one before, and the PHB is pretty ambiguous about it.

The spot I'm taking was vacated by a jokester gnome sorcerer, so I'd like to continue in his roll, not necessarily being smart or wise, but likeable and impulsive. I'm envisioning being an act-first-think-maybe gnome.

Prestige Classes are allowed, but I only get one choice, and once I take it I can't go back.

Once again, thanks for the advice. Much appreciated =D

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'd use silverbrow human for your race, from Dragon Magic. Use the savage bard variant from UA, possibly with the bardic knack alternate class feature from PHB2. Take two flaws to get two extra feats at level one. Get dragonfire inspiration, also from Dragon Magic, wild cohort for a badger companion, melodic casting from Complete Adventurer, and Obtain Familiar from Complete Arcane at level one, take song of the heart from the Eberron Campaign Setting at level 3, and take improved familiar from the Complete Warrior for a Krenshar familiar at level 6.

Standard wealth by level for 5th is 9,000 gold. You should be able to start out with a badge of valor from the Magic Item Compendium. Other items to consider would include a horn of resilience, gloves of the starry sky, and goggles of the golden sun, all from the item sets chapter of the Magic Item Compendium. A wand of cure light wounds would also be useful for healing up between encounters, remember you don't need to know the spell to use a wand of it, it just has to be on your class spell list.

Your spells known should definitely include inspirational boost from the Spell Compendium. Other good spells choices include charm person, grease, alter self, silence, and glitterdust, and later on haste, ray of dizziness, and mass curse of impending blades from the Spell Compendium are good to have. It's good to know at least one Cure spell, but I wouldn't have more than one known at any given time. At each level that you can trade out a spell known for another one of the same level (5, 8, 11, etc.) you also get a third spell known of your highest level available. It wouldn't be a bad idea to get the highest level Cure spell you can at each of those levels, and trade out the lower level one for something different. Stick to only using those in emergencies, otherwise you'll use up all your spells/day on healing the party. If there's an enemy spellcaster you can ready an action to cast silence if he starts casting a spell with a verbal component. If you center the spell on a point in space close enough to catch him within the area, he won't get a saving throw to resist it and his spell will be ruined.

At level 5 with dragonfire inspiration, song of the heart, a badge of valor, and inspirational boost, your inspire courage will give +4d6 fire damage to all of your allies' attacks. Your badger companion will be getting three attacks/round, and at your next level your krenshar familiar will also get three attacks/round. See if you can use the whirling frenzy variant from UA for your badger in place of its standard rage ability.

Remember that with melodic casting you can still cast spells and use certain magic items without interrupting your inspire courage. When you aren't buffing the party you can be attacking with a bow or whip while staying out of reach, since your own attacks will also get the +4d6 fire damage.

[ErrantX]

If you want to focus on magic and song, two words for a prestige class after level 10: Sublime Chord. It's in the Complete Arcane, and it's good times to be had by all.

-X

[danminator]

I like the Dragonfire Inspiration, but I am quite set on being a gnome. it fits into the campaign, and I enjoy being a cheeky bastard.

I LOVE Sublime Chord, I am definitely taking that once my bard is set.

This is a long running campaign, and my DM says I should max out at about level 30, so is a Bard 10/Sublime Chord 20 or something like it better than a Bard 20/Sublime Chord 10 or something like it?

Thanks for the response =D

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

In that case, use stonehunter gnome from Dragon Magic instead. You'll lose a feat at level 1, so leave out either wild cohort or obtain/improved familiar. You can still get dragonfire inspiration and melodic casting, and song of the heart at level 3. If you keep wild cohort, consider taking leadership at level 6.

[yilduz]

Sorry, I don't really have anything to add to the conversation... I just couldn't stop laughing at the title. The two words "bard optimization" written consecutively makes me laugh.

Sorry. Continue.

[Thurbane]

Trivial Knowledge (RoS) is a decent feat for a gnomish bard - allows you to roll twice for knowledge skill and bardic knowledge checks and take the best result.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

This is a long running campaign, and my DM says I should max out at about level 30, so is a Bard 10/Sublime Chord 20 or something like it better than a Bard 20/Sublime Chord 10 or something like it?

Thanks for the response =D

Bard 9/Virtuoso 1/Sublime Chord 2/Virtuoso 9/Full-casting PrC 9.

[danminator]

Bard 9/Virtuoso 1/Sublime Chord 2/Virtuoso 9/Full-casting PrC 9.

I only get one PrC, and once I take it, I can't take another level in any other class.

[ericgrau]

Thanks for the reply.

The campaign I'm joining has a wizard/cleric, a skirmisher, and a dwarven fighter tank. I'd prefer being a ranged combatant after songs. What is ECS? I don't have that source book.

Which stat is most important for a bard? I've never played one before, and the PHB is pretty ambiguous about it.

The spot I'm taking was vacated by a jokester gnome sorcerer, so I'd like to continue in his roll, not necessarily being smart or wise, but likeable and impulsive. I'm envisioning being an act-first-think-maybe gnome.

Prestige Classes are allowed, but I only get one choice, and once I take it I can't go back.

Once again, thanks for the advice. Much appreciated =D

Bards aren't really good combatants and songs are actually secondary (unless you change this with the right prestige). You can use a whip to trip, maybe disarm, from a 15 foot range. In that case you'll need a decent strength score and perhaps a feat. Since tripping is just a strength check, you can trip almost as well as any class. You can also ready actions to disrupt spell-casting with a crossbow. Your mid BAB is still often enough to hit low AC casters, and the concentration DC might still be high enough. Especially if you buy a handful of shocking/freezing/flaming/bane or etc. bolts just for them.

Bards don't really have a main stat, it depends on what you want to do. For cha I'd say get just enough for casting, your save DCs aren't gonna be that high anyway. If a spell you cast even has a save, make sure it triggers multiple saves or has a good effect even if they save. Int is good for skill points. Con helps HP. Dex helps AC. Str helps trippers. Wis... hmm, I guess you can "dump" wis. Most of those help skills too. Con, dex and str (and then only if tripping) are the only ones that really benefit from maxing out. With the rest higher scores help but it isn't critical.

Pick some good battlefield control spells; there are a lot of good low level ones that even high level casters continue to use. Especially the ones that are more caster level dependent than save DC dependent; your caster level is just as high as a full caster. So other low level spells that high level casters like such as dispel magic are good too. Status-effect buffs are good during combat too: haste, invisibility, etc. But +X buffs and songs should only be done before combat; don't waste a round on them. Many songs last a while after you stop playing/singing. Heal between combat with CLW wands; it's not worth spending low level spell slots on healing during combat. Get lots of scrolls for rarely used utility spells to be ready for anything, but don't clutter you known list with spells that rarely get used.

Pick some skills that complement the party well: knowledge skills they don't have, tumble if they need a flanker, spot/listen/hide/move silently if they need a scout, etc. You can do these just as good as a rogue.

Craft magic arms and armor is good for making things like +X armor and +1 merciful weapons. You don't get many spells to make a variety, but if you have other casters in your party they can supply some. You get full caster level so you do this as well as a full caster.

The PrC you choose could and/or feats from various books could change any/all of this.

[kyuubigan]

I'd say go straight bard, then jump into something like Warchanter (CW) or Seeker of the Song (CArc). I honestly suggest you be a human, because that extra feat and skillpoints are going to help you in the long run. Try this feat progression:

(H)-Extra Music-Get four additional uses of Bardic Music per day.
1-Lingering Song-The effects of your music lasts ten rounds instead of five.
3-Song of the Heart-Bonus to Inspire Courage.
6-Melodic Casting-Use magic items, wands, and scrolls while singing, and use your Peform check in place of a Concentration check.
9-Lyric Spell-Trade uses of Bardic Music to cast additional spells.
12-Words of Creation-Doubles all the effects of your Bardic Music, though you take some non-lethal damage in return.

As for an instrument, use a masterwork horn, which will get rid of the Will bonus vs fear in exchange for another +1 on damage and to hit w/ Inspire Courage.

Spell wise, try the following list for a while:

Lev 0: Mending, Message, Prestidigitation, Mage Hand, Read Magic, Detect Magic
Lev 1: Cure Light Wounds, Grease, Silent Image, Inspirational Boost
Lev 2: Alter Self, Glitterdust, Invisibility, Sonic Weapon
Lev 3: Displacement, Haste, Glibness

Well that's my two cents on the matter...

[danminator]

Thanks for the tips guys. What is ECS? That's bugging me now. I like the spell list there, that coincides with what I was planning for the most part.

I do like the whip bit as well, it has given me some ideas on my character concept.

[monty]

ECS is Eberron Campaign Setting.