Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: [3.5] Recaster

  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    wadledo's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default [3.5] Recaster

    I've been looking around, and apparently there's no advice for how to make a decent Recaster(Races of Eberron).
    This annoys me, so I'll ask y'all what you think should be done.

    The main things about the Recaster are these:

    1. Expanded Knowledge: I'll most likely be going into Recaster as a 9th level Changeling Wizard (with 3 levels of master specialist), meaning that any spell 4th level or lower is fair game at level 2, and anything 5th or lower is a go at 4th. What should I choose?

    2. Time: What are some good spells for this?

    3. Sudden Metamagic: Which of these are the best to choose?

    4. If I'm taking the 5th level changeling wizard level so I can get a morphic familiar, is it worth it to spend a feat on Improved familiar, and if so, what should my other feats look like?

    I've got 2 flaws at the ready, so starting at 6th, I've got 5 (and one that can either be a fighter feat or scribe scroll) feats to work with.
    Idiots give me indigestion.
    Don't give me indigestion.

    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonrider View Post
    Wadledo, you dislike EVERYONE. Therefore, you don't count.
    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    Maybe this is the only true fix for spellcasting, making people scared of using it.
    Quote Originally Posted by dragonprime View Post
    There's a concept called mercy. Are you familiar with it?
    Thank ya Dr.Bath for your avataring skills.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Sstoopidtallkid's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Texas...for now
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Recaster

    Quote Originally Posted by wadledo View Post
    1. Expanded Knowledge: I'll most likely be going into Recaster as a 9th level Changeling Wizard (with 3 levels of master specialist),
    Why? Go in after 3rd level. You give up a single feat and a point of BAB and Will saves for all the wonderful bennies of MS.
    [/sarcasm]
    FAQ is not RAW!
    Avatar by the incredible CrimsonAngel.
    Saph:It's surprising how many problems can be solved by one druid spell combined with enough aggression.
    I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    wadledo's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Recaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Sstoopidtallkid View Post
    Why? Go in after 3rd level. You give up a single feat and a point of BAB and Will saves for all the wonderful bennies of MS.
    Metamorphic familiar.
    Do not question it until you've had a hummingbird familiar change into a Winter Wolf or Howler after the surprise round.
    Idiots give me indigestion.
    Don't give me indigestion.

    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonrider View Post
    Wadledo, you dislike EVERYONE. Therefore, you don't count.
    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    Maybe this is the only true fix for spellcasting, making people scared of using it.
    Quote Originally Posted by dragonprime View Post
    There's a concept called mercy. Are you familiar with it?
    Thank ya Dr.Bath for your avataring skills.

  4. - Top - End - #4

    Default Re: [3.5] Recaster

    Quote Originally Posted by wadledo View Post
    Metamorphic familiar.
    Do not question it until you've had a hummingbird familiar change into a Winter Wolf or Howler after the surprise round.
    He's saying go into MS at level 4. Is there any reason that 3 more levels of Wizard and three fewer levels of MS prevents you from using metamorphic familiar?

    Heck, if it works, (it might) trade your familiar for something (like abrupt jaunt) and then get Obtain Familiar. Better in the long run if you really care about your familiar level progression.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Malacode's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2008

    Default Re: [3.5] Recaster

    I agree with Obtaibn Familiar if you want any chance of it surviving. Otherwise, it's really not got a chance.... Unless you Share Spells a Polymorph/Alter Self (Funnily enough, the familiar needn't be a valid target for the spell, you you can Alter Self yourself into a Tren and have the familiar follow suit) or something, but ever since I took down a CR 8 encounter alone at level 6 with this trick my DM has banned it, so expect your DM to do the same. High level buffs like Tensers Transformation and the like, the really powerful ones that cost you spellcasting ability but can be dismissed work wonders when you use them with Share Spells. As for Recaster advice, I really don't have any.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by The Extinguisher View Post
    I don't read the first post. Or the title of the thread. Or anything in the thread to be honest. I just post random words and hope it all makes potato.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    wadledo's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Recaster

    No, I need the fifth level of Changeling wizard to get metamorphic familiar, and since it's both a decent class ability, as well as vital to the character, I'd rather not PrC out until 6th.

    And you don't seem to get it.
    I have access to every single familiar, ever.
    So if I need a little boost to climb, it changes to lizard.
    If I need more HP, toad.
    If I need something to smash some faces, winter wolf.
    Etc.
    All at the cost of nothing.

    Please actually look at what you're arguing against before you comment, O.K.?
    Idiots give me indigestion.
    Don't give me indigestion.

    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonrider View Post
    Wadledo, you dislike EVERYONE. Therefore, you don't count.
    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    Maybe this is the only true fix for spellcasting, making people scared of using it.
    Quote Originally Posted by dragonprime View Post
    There's a concept called mercy. Are you familiar with it?
    Thank ya Dr.Bath for your avataring skills.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Prime32's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Ireland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Recaster

    Quote Originally Posted by wadledo View Post
    No, I need the fifth level of Changeling wizard to get metamorphic familiar, and since it's both a decent class ability, as well as vital to the character, I'd rather not PrC out until 6th.

    And you don't seem to get it.
    I have access to every single familiar, ever.
    So if I need a little boost to climb, it changes to lizard.
    If I need more HP, toad.
    If I need something to smash some faces, winter wolf.
    Etc.
    All at the cost of nothing.

    Please actually look at what you're arguing against before you comment, O.K.?
    The Obtain Familiar feat gives you a familiar based on your caster level rather than your wizard level. Trade out your familiar and take the feat at 3rd level - you can still pick up Metamorphic Familiar then, and it will continue to rise in power as you take recaster levels.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2007

    Default Re: [3.5] Recaster

    Well, there's actually a really, really good reason not to go into Recaster as soon as you possibly can- higher level Expanded Knowledge spells.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    monty's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Fresno (yes, THAT Fresno)
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Recaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Prime32 View Post
    The Obtain Familiar feat gives you a familiar based on your caster level rather than your wizard level. Trade out your familiar and take the feat at 3rd level - you can still pick up Metamorphic Familiar then, and it will continue to rise in power as you take recaster levels.
    No, Morphic Familiar is a feature of one of the racial substitution levels. In order to get it, he has to have 5 levels in the actual wizard class (not just a 5th level equivalent familiar), which means no prestige classes until 6th.
    My characters:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Sarah, human gestalt druid/totemist
    Adrian, human rogue
    Calypso, half-nymph human gestalt druid/miscellaneous


  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    I wish I knew...
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Recaster

    I'm not a big fan of the Sudden x metamagic feats. They are all 1/day... useful for theoretical "I OWN THIS ENCOUNTER" situations, but not really all that viable for actual gameplay.

    In regards to your familiar, here is my suggestion:

    Go Conjuration specialist, take Abrupt Jaunt. At 3rd level, choose the feat Obtain Familiar. Basically, you are blowing a feat on Abrupt Jaunt, which is well worth the trade.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Underlord View Post
    All hail great Shneekeythulhu! Ia Ia Shneeky fthagn
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
    Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
    Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
    Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
    Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
    Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us

    My homebrew world in progress: Falcora

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2004

    Default Re: [3.5] Recaster

    "As a full-round action, the familiar can change its form to that of any creature that the wizard could normally have as a familiar (see page 52 of the Player’s Handbook)." It can't change into a Winter Wolf unless you have the feat Improved Familiar, a caster level of 7th, a +7 BAB, and are within one step of a Neutral Evil alignment. It can only turn into a creature that you could have taken as a familiar via the normal methods. It arguably can't even turn into anything outside the PHB list of familiars. Using Polymorph/Alter Self to change it into a combat form is better than Morphic Familiar, hands down. Regardless, taking a variant from PH2 or UA to trade your class-granted familiar for a better ability, then spending a feat on Obtain Familiar, will give you a much better familiar in the later levels. Most of those variants are worth spending a feat on anyway, especially the ones for Conjuration.

    For Expanded Knowledge, I'd probably get Freedom of Movement (4th) and Heal (5th, Adept list). Other good choices include Divine Power for your familiar, Call Avalanche from Frostburn, and Hound of Doom from the Hexblade list in CW depending on your character. You can also check the Paladin, Ranger, Blackguard, Assassin, Hexblade, Adept, and Magewright spell lists for exclusive spells and spells at a lower level than normal. Telflammar Shadowlord in Unapproachable East also has quite a few spells at a reduced level.
    Last edited by Biffoniacus_Furiou; 2009-05-18 at 01:32 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    wadledo's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Recaster

    Quote Originally Posted by monty View Post
    No, Morphic Familiar is a feature of one of the racial substitution levels. In order to get it, he has to have 5 levels in the actual wizard class (not just a 5th level equivalent familiar), which means no prestige classes until 6th.
    Before anyone says anything more about the familiar, read the quote above.

    In addition, the fact that I get the bonus for each form is pretty damn cool as well, so please stop asking me about it.
    Last edited by wadledo; 2009-05-18 at 01:35 PM.
    Idiots give me indigestion.
    Don't give me indigestion.

    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonrider View Post
    Wadledo, you dislike EVERYONE. Therefore, you don't count.
    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    Maybe this is the only true fix for spellcasting, making people scared of using it.
    Quote Originally Posted by dragonprime View Post
    There's a concept called mercy. Are you familiar with it?
    Thank ya Dr.Bath for your avataring skills.

  13. - Top - End - #13

    Default Re: [3.5] Recaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Biffoniacus_Furiou View Post
    "As a full-round action, the familiar can change its form to that of any creature that the wizard could normally have as a familiar (see page 52 of the Player’s Handbook)." It can't change into a Winter Wolf unless you have the feat Improved Familiar, a caster level of 7th, a +7 BAB, and are within one step of a Neutral Evil alignment.
    A morphic familiar doesn't shift alignments, and your alignment only needs to be within one step of your familiar's alignment, not whatever creature it turns into.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kyeudo's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Draper, Utah
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Recaster

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    I'm not a big fan of the Sudden x metamagic feats. They are all 1/day... useful for theoretical "I OWN THIS ENCOUNTER" situations, but not really all that viable for actual gameplay.
    This isn't the Sudden Metamagic Feats. This is an up to 5/day instant use of a particular Metamagic feat he knows, with another thrown in at 4th level.

    Of the ones offered, the good ones are Maximize Spell, Extend Spell, and Empower Spell. Enlarge Spell and Widen Spell are only situationally useful, and with the Metamorphic Spell: Space ability they'll come in handy even less.

    In regards to your familiar, here is my suggestion:

    Go Conjuration specialist, take Abrupt Jaunt. At 3rd level, choose the feat Obtain Familiar. Basically, you are blowing a feat on Abrupt Jaunt, which is well worth the trade.
    Won't work if takes all 3 racial sub levels. The Changling Racial Sub for Wizard replaces standard specialization with the possibility of dual specializing in Illusion and Transmutation and gives extra class skills and skill points, including Disguise and Bluff (really nice for Changelings).


    Personally, I'd suggest delaying entering Recaster until your 10th level of full spellcasting. That way you can snag a 5th level with your first use of Expanded Knowledge. Heal is a 5th level Adept spell, so you can suddenly be as good a healer as the party cleric in a pinch.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: [3.5] Recaster

    Unfettered Heroism from Races of Eberron. One temporary action point each round for the spell duration. Also a personal buff if you want to persist it. It is normally a 5th level bard spell.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    I wish I knew...
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Recaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyeudo View Post
    This isn't the Sudden Metamagic Feats. This is an up to 5/day instant use of a particular Metamagic feat he knows, with another thrown in at 4th level.

    Of the ones offered, the good ones are Maximize Spell, Extend Spell, and Empower Spell. Enlarge Spell and Widen Spell are only situationally useful, and with the Metamorphic Spell: Space ability they'll come in handy even less.
    Maximize is mostly useful for the Sudden Max Time Stop combo. Empower is handy for a number of uses. Extend, in my opinion, is not really worth it. At 9th character level, his Hours/level spells will be lasting most of the day anyways.

    Too bad you can't get Chain. That would be... awesome.

    Won't work if takes all 3 racial sub levels. The Changling Racial Sub for Wizard replaces standard specialization with the possibility of dual specializing in Illusion and Transmutation and gives extra class skills and skill points, including Disguise and Bluff (really nice for Changelings).
    Are all three levels required for the familiar thing?


    Personally, I'd suggest delaying entering Recaster until your 10th level of full spellcasting. That way you can snag a 5th level with your first use of Expanded Knowledge. Heal is a 5th level Adept spell, so you can suddenly be as good a healer as the party cleric in a pinch.
    Wow... a full spell level earlier than on the Cleric list...

    Also, don't neglect the Bard's spell list. Song of Discord is fun to play with, and you can get Irresistable Dance as a 6th level, rathe than 8th level,spell.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Underlord View Post
    All hail great Shneekeythulhu! Ia Ia Shneeky fthagn
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
    Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
    Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
    Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
    Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
    Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us

    My homebrew world in progress: Falcora

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kyeudo's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Draper, Utah
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Recaster

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    Maximize is mostly useful for the Sudden Max Time Stop combo. Empower is handy for a number of uses. Extend, in my opinion, is not really worth it. At 9th character level, his Hours/level spells will be lasting most of the day anyways.
    At high levels, it's making the "10 minutes/level" buffs last half the day that you use Extend for. Buffs like Foresight.

    Are all three levels required for the familiar thing?
    *smacks self*

    No. Just the 2nd, and the 3rd kind of sucks. He sounds like he's taking the dual-specialization offer, though, so he can't get Abrupt Jaunt. Just the Transmutation or Illusion abilities.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2004

    Default Re: [3.5] Recaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfire Titan View Post
    A morphic familiar doesn't shift alignments, and your alignment only needs to be within one step of your familiar's alignment, not whatever creature it turns into.
    You want your familiar to change into X creature, so ask yourself the following question:
    'If I were trying to summon a new familiar right now via the normal methods, could I summon one of X creature as my new familiar?'
    If yes, it can change into that; if no, then it can't. If you do not meet the prerequisites to summon a given familiar not found on the PHB list, then your Morphic Familiar cannot change into it. Alignment may be passable, but even at Wizard 6/ Master Specialist 3/ Recaster 5 he still will not meet the +7 BAB requirement for his familiar to turn into a Winter Wolf. Plus I doubt he'll be taking any of the feats required for the stronger forms, such as Improved Familiar, Celestial Familiar, and Dragon Familiar. My point is, he's giving way too much credit to this substitution level, when Polymorph is a better substitute.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    wadledo's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Recaster

    I like the sub level, it fits with my character concept, the bonuses from the different forms are nice, and there are more than enough different forms that are good for melee/general use that I'd rather not waste polymorph on (Oh, it's dark and I can't see anything. I'll switch my weasel familiar to a bat and use it's blindsight to find a way out of here
    Oh noes, we are trapped underground and do not know where to go! I shall change my familiar from bat to earth elemental, so it can search for secret passages since we didn't think to bring a wand of detect secret doors.).
    Please drop that portion of the argument, it's not the point of this thread.
    Idiots give me indigestion.
    Don't give me indigestion.

    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonrider View Post
    Wadledo, you dislike EVERYONE. Therefore, you don't count.
    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    Maybe this is the only true fix for spellcasting, making people scared of using it.
    Quote Originally Posted by dragonprime View Post
    There's a concept called mercy. Are you familiar with it?
    Thank ya Dr.Bath for your avataring skills.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Recaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Biffoniacus_Furiou View Post
    You want your familiar to change into X creature, so ask yourself the following question:
    'If I were trying to summon a new familiar right now via the normal methods, could I summon one of X creature as my new familiar?'
    If yes, it can change into that; if no, then it can't.
    Me, I might just assume that the rules aren't meant to allow Improved Familiars, and rule that as a DM. But I think your ruling is a good way to read it, too.
    Drew

    This is for everyone who squints hard at stuff in the hope they'll spontaneously develop telekinesis.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •