OOTS #654 - The Discussion Thread

[Fermatprime]

I doubt Team Evil will be seriously hurt by O-Chul; he'll almost certainly go for Xykon, and he won't be able to kill Xykon.

However, some of the other commenters have made me think

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O-Chul is a major hero to the Azure City slaves. If he dies trying to take out Xykon/Redcloak, it'll very likely spark an uprising. What would make the most sense for the plot, at that point, is for Team Evil to be away and the hobgoblins to either be crushed or to put down the uprising themselves -- either way, Redcloak will have to move on to Girard's gate.

[Olo Demonsbane]

13 minutes = 6 pages. Wow

[Freelance Henchman]

Just posting to say that comics like this are what makes OOTS much more than a collection of D&D jokes. Amazing, just amazing.

[Rollory]

Ok, I'm going to put this prediction here because I want it on record somewhere, and if someone else has already made it I apologize, I don't keep up with most of the threads on here.

I think the MitD is a baby Snarl.

I think it's going to have a major part to play in the ultimate resolution of the story.

I may be totally wrong about this but ... well, finding out is half the fun.

[Freelance Henchman]

I think the MitD is a baby Snarl.

There's a scene in Start of Darkness that strongly indicates it's not something as obscure as a baby Snarl but rather something more well known.

[SandyCaesar]

Ooh, interesting...and surprisingly touching.

My prediction:

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O-Chul will do some damage, but the key point is MitD. At some point Redcloak will smash Xykon's phylactery. At that point MitD's conditioning

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introduced in Start of Darkness wherein he will eat Redcloak should the latter threaten the phylactery

will kick in, meaning one of two things: a) he overcomes it and Redcloak breaks the phylactery, or b) he fails to overcome it and eats Redcloak, but manages to smash the phylactery himself.

What happens to O-Chul, Xykon, or Vaarsuvius in the meantime is anyone's guess.

[Porthos]

There's a scene in Start of Darkness that strongly indicates it's not something as obscure as a baby Snarl but rather something more well known.

Rich is also on record as saying that the MitD is not a "made up" monster, which would presumably preclude it from being a baby snarl.

Popular theory though.

[Crossfiyah]

He's going to break Xykon's phylactery, I bet. He was in the throne room and overheard the entire conversation.

But I doubt he knows he has to kill Xykon for it to matter. What a shame.

[archon_huskie]

Destroying the Phylcantry also means destorying Red Cloak's unholy symbol. Not necessarily a bad thing.

O-Chul has just done something no one else in the comic ever could. He has made the Monster in the Dark worried.

[Elderac]

Go O'Chul! You are the man!

[holywhippet]

I wonder what kind of knowledge O-Chul has about liches. For one thing, his is charging with a pointy weapon - being a skeletal type undead, piercing undead is not the best choice for a weapon. He's be better off using the blunt end after casting magic weapon on it (if possible).

If he's targetting the phylactery then he could be in for a challenge. According to the SRD, a phylactery has a hardness of 20 (essentially damage reduction 20), 40 hit points and a break DC of 40. I don't know if O-Chul could manage to destroy it.

Lay on hands vs. the lich? Might work, assuming he doesn't just paralysed again from touching the lich (that might require a touch attack from Xykon though). I'm surprised that even worked in the first place though, O-Chul has a very high CON and a good fortitude save.

Lay on hands on V? That might be a better option - V could help out.

This is the perfect time to attack - Xykon should have taken a pounding from the two spells that actually connected.

[Cracklord]

And then a celestial choir did begin to play 'Eye of the Tiger,' as O-Chul went to meet his destiny...
If anyone can pull this off, it is O-Chul and his ridiculous tougnesss.

Hope he breaks the phylactery, but I suspect hhis purpose will be to give V the opportunity to escape. This will 1.) forcibly install some empathy, and 2.) further humiliate V, as V will be saved from certain defeat by a divine spellcaster.

We'll see.

[kalkyrie]

The phylactery is more important than Xykon.
It may not be possible to remake it, and even if it is it would take about 120 days, by normal D&D rules.
By comparison, Xykon will reform in under 11 days if killed.

Of course the OotS campaign may have different numbers, but you get the general idea.

The phylactery is probably easier to destroy than Xykon (40 hit points, hardness 20, and a break DC of 40)

If O-Chul gets a surprise round and wins initiative, he could do a lot of damage.

(I loved the comic btw. Go O-Chul!)

[chefsotero]

And that would give O-Chull some extra badass points in my book

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And is O-Chull planing to use the bar as a weapon or for pole jumping to reach the flying xykon? Touch attack?

[Terminalchaos]

I think laying hands on V would be more effective than Xykon (that is if V is merely unconscious.) Also O-chul's success seems contingent upon MItD's participation or intervention from some other power.

[Deepkicker]

Epic. Absolutely epic. If O-Chul dies here we may get to see the beginning of a very different Monster in the Dark.

Also, typo.

[BatRobin]

I see it this way:


O-Chul runs forward and quick-as-awesome hurls the pole into Redcloak as fast as he can. It goes through the Phylactery-and Redcloak's heart. Tsukiko/Xykon kills O-Chul (in the most heartbreaking way ever, in which we'll hate them forever), and Jirix is staring in awe at the dead Redcloak. Xykon tells Jirix to hurry up and leave before V wakes up (and says his four words, IMO, which would be 'COME...BACK...TO...ME!!!') and so Jirix screams at Xykon for not caring about DeadRed and Xykon brushes him off. MitD, outraged by O-Chul's death and Xykon's carelessness, finally snaps and explodes half the tower, and V wakes up, and ownage ensues.


Just my 2 cents.

[Drammel]

Y'know destroying the phylactery right now wouldn't do a whole lot of good. They can be remade, and as Xykon has previously stated, he's got eight hours a day to work on making magical items. By the time the Order of the Stick gets to a point where they're a credible threat to him, I'm going to bet he could make another.

Now swiping the phylactery, giving it to V and getting V the hell out of Dodge is another matter. Should that happen and V regroups with the party, the Order of the Stick can choose where and when to destroy the container for Xykon's soul, (say before a climactic final battle) which incidentally he can't do a damn thing about except hunt them down. It's like loosing one's wallet vs having it destroyed. You can replace most of the contents of your wallet if you run them through the wash. If someone steals your wallet, you dread every moment thinking of what the person who has it is doing with it.

On a 'rain-on-the-parade' moment why does anyone think that O-Chul is going to his final reward? As evidenced by V's encounter with the dragon, a soul can be popped back into a dead body, Xykon is all kinds of evil, and there's a big hole in the universe nearby where a soul devouring monster resides. Do the math. He'll reanimate O-Chul's corpse, and toss his soul along with the corpse into the Snarl. However, O-Chul is most likely aware of this possibility given his recent experiences, which makes him even more of a hero.

Really, building a golden statue of the guy and declaring a national holiday called O-Chulmass isn't enough to give credit to his heroism.

[MagMagus]

Actually, I bet the MITD is going to be enraged at O-Chul's death and at least do heavy damage to Azure City.

[derfenrirwolv]

Interesting. I wonder what exactly O-Chul has in mind. I don't think he's the sort of Paladin dumb enough to do something he regards as suicidal unless he honestly thinks he can accomplish something major in doing so. Yet it is ridiculously doubtful he could defeat Xykon, even with him wounded by the fight with V. Nor is it at all likely he could defeat Redcloak, who wasn't hurt much at all by V, and who is a Cleric anyway, and thus able to heal himself. And I doubt he'd think killing Jirix is a big deal, since he's just a high-ranking lackey to the real bigwigs.

So... what's O-Chul up to?

Zevox

Setting an example, like a real paladin should.

[David Argall]

Right, he WAS inferior. But he has been running the gauntlet for 4 months now, and winning, I think he is probably 13th - 14th level now.

Which would mean, if Xykon didn't drain away any extra levels by matching him with a wight or other level-draining undead he can order up with ease, and if he was actually eligible to earn any XP at all, that he would be about equal to Roy when Xykon effectively patted him on the head and told him to come back when he was grown, except that Roy had armor, a powerful undead-killing sword, and all sorts of other advantages. And of course Roy got owned as soon as he managed to make Xykon take him seriously. So even if we are optimists, O-Chul is way outclassed. He dies in any battle with Xykon as soon as Xykon wants to kill him.
Now he may have some chance with a desperation tactic. He attacks Xykon, who merely laughs. O-Chul then picks up V and dives out the new "window", hoping V knows Fly [& if not, the landing won't be as painful as what Xykon is going to do to them anyway.] The two then flee and hide. I'm betting against the idea, but it's more in scale with what O-Chul can actually achieve.

He's going to break Xykon's phylactery, I bet.

He might try it, but it seems too early in the story for that destruction to happen.

Depends on how many levels of fighter vs paladin he has. Smite evil does damage equal to paladin levels, and while not the highest level paladin, he's one of the highest, so he could easily have 8-10 levels of paladin.

No, that is the most he could have. Given we have not seen his mount, we can argue he has less than 5, and the talk about becoming a paladin late in life also argues for him having very few levels of paladin.
In any case, we are only giving him about a half-dozen extra points of damage to a lich with well over 100. Our fighter gets 3 feats during that period that are likely more useful in killing a lich.

[Weimann]

Am I the only one who thinks today's comic was standard run-of-the-mill? I mean, yeah, it was one of the better kinds, but it doesn't beat stuff like #400, #417, #611 or similar. I mean, yeah, it's a good comic, definitely in the upper reaches even among OotS pages, but I don't see the big moment everyone is talking about here.

Not saying O-Chul isn't the embodiment of Paladin, not saying MitD isn't showing impressive feats of intellect. Just saying it's not the best comic I've seen, and surely not the best I'll see either.

I guess I never got all to close to O-Chul.

[malakim2099]

O-Chul is what paladins should be.

Go get 'em!

[Y'nokhs]

Cue heroic sacrifice music

Also, I loved the "to do my duty" "Again? They just brought the bucket around an hour ago" comment.

Yeah, but no way O'chul is surviving this. Monster-san called his name. Elan could tell you that's a bad sign.

The good thing, though, is that he doesn't have to. He's sacrificing himself - he admits as much - for the good of V and Monster-san. If Xykon kills him, that could very well be the last straw for the MITD. I sense a reveal coming soon...

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vs.
Place yer bets!

[NeonRonin]

O-Chul is what paladins should be.

Go get 'em!

I second that emotion wholeheartedly; THAT is how a noble warrior is supposed to behave. William the Marshal, eat your heart out.

And Ms. Miyazaki, I hope you were taking notes.

[derfenrirwolv]

Damage potential Guesstimate.

Iron bar: 1d8 damage

Strength score of 18 = +4

1.5 times damage from weapon being used in two hands= 1.5 X +4= +6

Power attack (EVERY fighter has the feat) take 10 off to hit . Add 20 to damage. (two handed weapon)

Smite evil: add cha to hit, add paladin level to damage. +8 ?

So we're looking at around 38 damage, and that's pushing it with the power attack. Xykon easily could be hurt enough for that to put him down: remember, he doesn't get to go to -10, he hits 0 and POOFS into his phylactery.

[Vorpal Soda]

Right now, I'm guessing that O-Chul being nice and reaching out to people (or monsters) is going to prove more powerful than Vaarsuvius shutting everyone out of hir's life.

[chefsotero]

For you 3.5 lawyers out there

could O-Chul use an power attack on his lay of hands? Its descrption gives the OK for unarmed or natural weapon.

If so his chance to hit and damage could increace significantly.

[Shadowbane]

I love O-Chul, and I sincerely believe he is tougher than Chuck Norris, but...

He. Is. Doomed.

[the_tick_rules]

I smell a MITD betrayal cooking. Of course he was never loyal to him anyways, he's barely aware of what's going on. O-Chul is a good example of Paladinism ain't he?