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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2009

    Default Wish or Miracle?

    Suppose, (if you need such an example) I am a lvl 17 Cleric who just got access to the 9th lvl spells. I fight alone, so I don't need to worry about party members (don't question this please :D).

    Which would be the wisest choice to make, and why?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    TheLogman's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
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    Male

    Default Re: Wish or Miracle?

    Miracle is much better for most usage. Smaller penalties, and better things happen that you'll use more often.
    Thanks a TON to Almighty Salmon for the Amazing Log Man!

    The Legend of TheLogMan

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

    Join Date
    Nov 2008

    Default Re: Wish or Miracle?

    In combat, miracle. Out of combat, wish. Wish has much more general utility because it's got crafting power. You can craft anything for no gold expenditure, so you basically just ride the XP train and stay level 17-18 forever.

    Miracle is great because it costs nothing to use it to replicate spells.

    Limited wish is more better, though. 6th level and lower spells are still pretty HAX, and the XP expenditure is way lower than wish's. For raw power, wish beats limited version, but for a bang:buck equation, I give it to limited wish.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Yuki Akuma's Avatar

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    Dec 2004
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    The Land of Angles

    Default Re: Wish or Miracle?

    The answer is of course Reality Revision.

    It's basically Wish, except... you're not limited by the number of 9th level spell slots you have. So as soon as you get it, you can have a +5 inherent bonus to every ability score in two days.

    (Well, as soon as you get it and also earn the 150,000 extra experience points.)
    Last edited by Yuki Akuma; 2009-05-20 at 08:42 PM.
    There's no wrong way to play. - S. John Ross

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Midwest, not Middle East
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    Male

    Default Re: Wish or Miracle?

    Miracle by a landslide. Every casting of Wish costs XP; Miracle only costs XP for some uses.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    Male

    Default Re: Wish or Miracle?

    Miracle. Especially if you're a cleric of a good god/goddess because you're not in danger of it being twisted. For general utility with a DM who isn't going to intentionally screw you over wish does have its uses.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Devil

    Join Date
    Jun 2005

    Default Re: Wish or Miracle?

    I'm confused. How would your cleric be casting Wish?

    With a pre-existing character, this choice is probably going to be made for you. Who gets access to both of these spells? Well, Artificers and Warlocks, indirectly.
    Quote Originally Posted by icefractal View Post
    Abstract positioning, either fully "position doesn't matter" or "zones" or whatever, is fine. If the rules reflect that. Exact positioning, with a visual representation, is fine. But "exact positioning theoretically exists, and the rules interact with it, but it only exists in the GM's head and is communicated to the players a bit at a time" sucks for anything even a little complex. And I say this from a GM POV.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Yuki Akuma's Avatar

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    Dec 2004
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    The Land of Angles

    Default Re: Wish or Miracle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devils_Advocate View Post
    I'm confused. How would your cleric be casting Wish?

    With a pre-existing character, this choice is probably going to be made for you. Who gets access to both of these spells? Well, Artificers and Warlocks, indirectly.
    Magic domain with a scroll.
    There's no wrong way to play. - S. John Ross

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Sstoopidtallkid's Avatar

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    Nov 2007
    Location
    Texas...for now
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    Male

    Default Re: Wish or Miracle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devils_Advocate View Post
    I'm confused. How would your cleric be casting Wish?

    With a pre-existing character, this choice is probably going to be made for you. Who gets access to both of these spells? Well, Artificers and Warlocks, indirectly.
    Therefore, Archivists.

    Also, Wizards and Sorcerers get Miracle through Arcane Disciple.
    [/sarcasm]
    FAQ is not RAW!
    Avatar by the incredible CrimsonAngel.
    Saph:It's surprising how many problems can be solved by one druid spell combined with enough aggression.
    I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.

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