Issues with dnd member and pun pun

[nysisobli]

I started a campaign several months ago and they have advanced quite far, i informed them i didn't want any meta gaming and the group was all for it. Well i noticed around level 5 my kobold player began using a build that looked like pun- pun, i continued to play and act like i didn't know what he was doing, he continued to advance as pun pun, we reached level 12 and he said i want to change forms into a Sarruhk, i just smiled and said those creatures don't exist in my campaign world, was this a fair judge? Also he got up and stormed out red in the face and angry.

[ocato]

Probably would've been easier to confront him before he put 12 levels into a character.

[nysisobli]

well i dropped hints the entire time i didn't want anything like that in my game, they all know i activally troll multiple gaming forums, and know all the latest cheese

[Frog Dragon]

Well props to you. This kind of cheese should be stopped at all costs and he didn't relly have any right to get mad when the build is just theoretical char-op and he woul've destroyed the game with that one. Still it would have gone smoother if you told him from the start.

[Yuki Akuma]

If dropping hints doesn't work before he reaches level twelve, start beating him over the head with a clue until he gets one.

Alternatively, flat-out disallow the build. You're the DM. You can do that. If he complains, well, do you really want to be spending hours preparing entertainment for a guy like that?

[TheCountAlucard]

Wow... I'm surprised someone actually tried to pull Pun-pun on his DM. Also, you probably shouldn't have even needed to state that a setting-specific monster doesn't exist in your setting; that makes it obvious what the player was trying to do, as if his reaction to it didn't give it away.

Power to you, I say.

[Tiki Snakes]

Heh. Level 12? It's not like he's even used the better Pun-Pun. (I don't recall the specifics, but if he'd gone for the level 1 build he'd have gotten his dissapointment out of the way much quicker, eh?)


You flat out said no meta-gaming, no cheese. If he's pissy about it, then you're better off shot of him frankly, because he was deliberately trying to 'get one over on the dm'.


*shrug*

I'm sure it'll work out. Kobolds are a great laugh, it's not like his current character build is otherwise unworkable...right?

[kamikasei]

If he was seriously trying to build and play Pun-Pun in a real game, he's a jackass. That said, it would certainly have been better to ask him earlier what he was aiming for with his character and to make clear to him that you weren't going to allow absurd theoretical cheese. If it were something other than Pun-Pun I'd criticize you for letting him build up to level 12 without nipping this foolishness in the bud, but I can't work up any sympathy for this guy to motivate me.

[shadzar]

Some games or systems force the DM/GM to allow any and everything a player game find in a book in the game.

Thankfully D&D is not one of the and the DM has a right to say "No", to any additions to the game that the world was not designed for, to maintain balance of the world for all playes and the DM alike.

I see no problem with stating a certain race/species of creature doesn't exist in your world, and if a player cannot accept that, then maybe D&D is not for them.

You may find a game where the world has no gods, and no clerics. May sound strange, but it can work and can be very fun; let me tell you!

So not allowing something from the game is not a bad thing to begin with.

Preventing a player from abusing char-ops boards is never a bad thing.

Removing munchkin players form your game to prevent it from deteriorating into a crap fest that the other players do not want, is also a good thing.

I see no reason for a question here to be asked of fairness, and the group comes before the individual, and you clearly did what was right for the group.

[nysisobli]

i dont like to limit my characters, but when i start talking about an article on pun pun, and how much i hated the concept of it lol at level 8 you think he would stop. Hes always been sensible before now

[Yuki Akuma]

i dont like to limit my characters, but when i start talking about an article on pun pun, and how much i hated the concept of it lol at level 8 you think he would stop. Hes always been sensible before now

You really should just be upfront and tell people no. If they're the type of people to get pissy when you say "no, you can't break the game and make it no fun for everyone else"... well, see my earlier comment about wanting to spend hours preparing entertainment for people like him.

[nysisobli]

well ive never had a problem with him before this hes just being a jackass

[Yuki Akuma]

Again, hours preparing entertainment, people like this (namely people who suddenly act like jackasses out of nowhere), et cetera.

Yes, yes, I get it, seriously. He's your friend and he's never pulled something like this before. Okay. Tell him to stop if you actually value your friendship.

[Faleldir]

Let the characters discover in-game that if an infinite loop ever occurs, all of Mechanus will transform into one big Inevitable and destroy the offending plane. That's much cooler than just saying no.

[Yuki Akuma]

Let the characters discover in-game that if an infinite loop ever occurs, all of Mechanus will transform into one big Inevitable and destroy the offending plane. That's much cooler than just saying no.

Alternatively, have Pun-Pun, God of Munchkins, tell him in no uncertain terms "No, you can't do that, but here's a nifty magic item for trying, good effort".

And then deduct the cost of the magic item from the treasure of the next encounter without telling anyone. >.>

[nysisobli]

i spend probably 3 days a week making sure everyone gets the fair share of the treasure putting balance in between the characters and making my own monsters just to keep in game and out of game knowledge separate, =) i also am offering him a chance to completely remake his character as long as he writes a background long enough to please me =) i like reading lol

[Shadowbane]

The moment you saw it, you should have stopped him, imho. That's what I would have done. And politely, of course.

[Curmudgeon]

i also am offering him a chance to completely remake his character as long as he writes a background long enough to please me =) i like reading lol

You seem to be doing a good job using the game rules as intended. I recommend using the Players Handbook II retraining/rebuilding options to keep going on this path. It's nice to have official rules that you can point to so the player won't think you're being arbitrary.

[shadzar]

It's nice to have official rules that you can point to so the player won't think you're being arbitrary.

Wasn't it official rules that created Pun-pun and his divine squirrels to begin with?

[Jayabalard]

Some games or systems force the DM/GM to allow any and everything a player game find in a book in the game.

I don't think that this is actually a true statement. At best they'd have a rule that says that the GM has to allow the players free reign, but there's nothing to stop the GM from just ignoring that rule.

I mean really... do a bunch of cartoon character men in black suits with white on white ties armed with guns walk through the door and make the GM follow that particular rule?

[Kaiyanwang]

You seem to be doing a good job using the game rules as intended. I recommend using the Players Handbook II retraining/rebuilding options to keep going on this path. It's nice to have official rules that you can point to so the player won't think you're being arbitrary.

Actually, you are very generous. I seriously can't say what I could do seeing a PC trying this.

Maybe something involving a tons of inevitables.

[nysisobli]

i love my group, and i usually do allow free reign, but pun-pun honestly......i am ashamed, i even allowed a group member to play a monk who used int rather then wis, do determine his monk abilities, also using a custom made vulcan race. lol

[Cheesegear]

Yep. You're the DM, you're well within your rights to ban anything you want (although it's good to have a reason anyway so your players don't get angry).

But, IMO, if you saw what he was doing (building a Pun-Pun), dropping hints is not the way to go. You should've flat-out told him. Right there.
"Are you trying to build Pun-Pun? No."
Player's don't get clues all that often.

The way you've done it, you've just wasted both his time and yours. He could've spent all this time working on a workable/allowable build/character.

Still...I'm...Surprised that somebody actually thought that Pun-Pun would be allowed in the first place.

I even allowed a group member to play a monk who used int rather then wis, do determine his monk abilities

There's a feat (two, in fact) that lets you do exactly that.

[FMArthur]

I have about as much sympathy for a denied Pun-pun ascension as I do for a chessboard upheaval. Why are you even trying to let such a player back into the group?

[Kaiyanwang]

i am ashamed, i even allowed a group member to play a monk who used int rather then wis,

Well a feat exist for it! Kung fu Genius, from Dragon Magazine

[nysisobli]

sometimes you have to do what you have to do =(

[nysisobli]

lol it was in the race description, and everytime he uses stunning fist he yells vulcan nerve pinch!

[strawberryman]

I mean really... do a bunch of cartoon character men in black suits with white on white ties armed with guns walk through the door and make the GM follow that particular rule?

...That gives me a hilarious idea for some new Inevitables.

[Curmudgeon]

Wasn't it official rules that created Pun-pun and his divine squirrels to begin with?

Only partly. Pun-Pun can't exist without huge amounts of metaknowledge. Any sane DM would clamp down on that. How is a PC going to change forms into a Sarruhk when there's never been one in that character's experience? Remember, all those Monster Manuals are player equipment, not character equipment.

[shadzar]

Only partly. Pun-Pun can't exist without huge amounts of metaknowledge. Any sane DM would clamp down on that. How is a PC going to change forms into a Sarruhk when there's never been one in that character's experience? Remember, all those Monster Manuals are player equipment, not character equipment.

True, but just saying those official rules is what got people into this situation in the first place, so override them like was done.

Say the Slavisek race just doesn't exist in your world for those natural abilities to be used.