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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BarbarianGuy

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    Default Abjuration; the 3.5 silent killer?

    Ok, first of all, I HAVE read the Logic Ninja's Guide to Wizards being Batman as well as most of the books dealing with wizards and their PrCs. That being said, I never hear anything about how potentially awesome a specialist Abjurer can be. Between the Master Specialist Abjurer's class features (basically Wizard Evasion) and the fact that by going this route you can qualify for the powerhouse classes of Incantrix and Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil without trying, to me it seems that Aburation is given very little love. Has anyone ever played anything like this? Sprinkle this class over a Grey Elf Race with a starting Int score of 18 and a little Elven Spell Lore, ban Evocation and Enchantment and it seems like you've got instant powerhouse.
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    Default Re: Abjuration; the 3.5 silent killer?

    Quote Originally Posted by raistlin807 View Post
    Ok, first of all, I HAVE read the Logic Ninja's Guide to Wizards being Batman as well as most of the books dealing with wizards and their PrCs. That being said, I never hear anything about how potentially awesome a specialist Abjurer can be. Between the Master Specialist Abjurer's class features (basically Wizard Evasion) and the fact that by going this route you can qualify for the powerhouse classes of Incantrix and Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil without trying, to me it seems that Aburation is given very little love. Has anyone ever played anything like this? Sprinkle this class over a Grey Elf Race with a starting Int score of 18 and a little Elven Spell Lore, ban Evocation and Enchantment and it seems like you've got instant powerhouse.
    Abjuration is generally seen as being a way to keep everyone else the hell away. Although transmutation and conjuration often overlap into it's field of protection.
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    Default Re: Abjuration; the 3.5 silent killer?

    Abjuration suffers from lack of options. Counting CM, the SC, and the PHB, there aren't that many Abjuration spells as compared to Conjuration and Transmutation. Couple this with the fact that a good number of powerful Abjuration spells are Cleric/Druid only, and you soon see why Abjuration is a tertiary choice for a Wizard.


    To be honest, a Focused Specialist Wizard who specializes in Conjuration/Transmutation usually choses to give up Enchantment, Evocation, and either Necromancy or Abjuration. It's a coin toss on which one, based on whatever feats/PrCs you take. Incanatrix/IotSFV that focused on metamagic usually bans Necromancy (as only a handful of metamagic feats are really good with Necromancy spells), while Master Specialist/Archmage/Unseen Seer that focuses on entry requirements usually bans Abjuration (as Unseen Seer has little use for it, Master Specialist can actually use the Necromancy capstone, and Archmage likes Necromancy SLAs more than Abjuration).

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    Optimystik's Avatar

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    Default Re: Abjuration; the 3.5 silent killer?

    No love? Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil is all the love they need!

    From WotC's perspective. it's basically a mandatory school... so why would they waste time promoting it? No wizard with any sense is going to drop it anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Volkov View Post
    Abjuration is generally seen as being a way to keep everyone else the hell away. Although transmutation and conjuration often overlap into it's field of protection.
    Also illusion, but of course illusion dips its fingers into everything.
    Last edited by Optimystik; 2009-05-22 at 02:23 PM.

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    Default Re: Abjuration; the 3.5 silent killer?

    Playing an Abjurer3/MS6/Initiate7 right now. Just picked up my last level of Initiate. The only thing I've seen that can really threaten the character is a maxed out Psionic Dispel (Even then you can throw up a personal veil as an immediate action to block... anything, and just teleport away). Some say that playing a wizard is an auto-win button at this level, but it is less so the case when all your opponents are also high level full casters. Maybe the skill level of my group and I is low, but I've founded that these kinds of defenses are absolutely invaluable. Right now, the specialist slots are filled with the following:

    Endure Elements, Resist Energy, Dispel Magic, Ray Deflection, Break Enchantment, Greater Dispel Magic, Spell Turning, and Mind Blank. I plan to have my 9th level slot be filled with Maw of Chaos. Ray Deflection and Break Enchantment are somewhat situational, but the higher level spells (Greater Dispel, Spell Turning, Mind Blank) are absolutely great and I do not see a disadvantage in having them over conj/trans spells.
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    Default Re: Abjuration; the 3.5 silent killer?

    I'm a big fan of Abjuration. As I see it, Abjuration is anything that says "No." Thinking about it as "the defensive school" isn't the way to go about it... it's the disruptive school. Especially when you're working as a team (which you should be, right?), the ability to deny your opponents what they want to do, effectively putting the battle on your terms, well, that's pretty powerful no matter how you slice it.

    So yeah, Abjuration can be a lot of fun. I don't know if I could ever focus specialize in it, but if I were to play a wizzie, Abjuration would be my first choice for chosen school.
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    Default Re: Abjuration; the 3.5 silent killer?

    Abjuration is a personal favorite of mine too, next to transmutation and illusion. I just love the power of being able to deny the enemy (and the DM ). Sure, it may be low on options, compared to other schools, but it compensates for having very versatile spells. Even shield and the lowly resistance have had their uses. Being able to deny spellcasters comes in handy when you fight those big outsiders that are also full casters. And of course, IotSV.

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    Default Re: Abjuration; the 3.5 silent killer?

    Abjuration Guide.

    Pretty much, the issue with Abjuration is that most of the good spells also appear on the Cleric/Druid lists. Other than the few of the spells that have hour/level or even 10 min/level durations, the defensive buffs end up costing an action in combat, and the best use of an action in combat for defense is removing an enemy from the battle, not adding to your AC or something. There's some good swift action spells, and some good all-day buffs, but it's not as broad as Conj or Trans, as IWIN as Necro or Enchant(low level), or as fun as Illusion. It can be specialized in, but many schools offer more.
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    Default Re: Abjuration; the 3.5 silent killer?

    Yes. I hear abjurers are great fun *cough* and I've certainly considered playing one a couple times *cough*.

    Also, being the mage that other mages fear has a certain charm to it.
    Last edited by Xallace; 2009-05-22 at 03:00 PM.
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Abjuration; the 3.5 silent killer?

    Funny thing is I play an Illusionist wizard and took abjuration as my prohibited school. So are i have been perfectly fine with out it. The only thing that i have ever felt i needed from it was dispel magic.

    While it is not a bad school abjuration is kind of like playing the referee at a game. you sit on the side until some one else does something you don't like then call a foul. now if that is your play style great go for it. but for me i find that Illusionist can be just as good at controlling a battle if you know how to use your spells right. nothing like going to a battle against 5 PC and finding out that there are over 100 dwarf soldiers that were inviable and another 100 that are illusions.

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    BarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Abjuration; the 3.5 silent killer?

    Correct me if I'm wrong but Master Specialist does not drop another School of magic. So with the minor and moderate esoterica (no need to take level 10 in the PrC)you get what is effectively a wizard with evasion, bonuses to dispel magic and at that point you're ready to take IOSFV and/or Incantrix. Transmutation and Conjuration are powerful schools but their Master specialist benefits aren't as good as an abjurer's. Plus you have to run to catch up with the pre-reqs to get into the powerhouse prestige classes.
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    Default Re: Abjuration; the 3.5 silent killer?

    Quote Originally Posted by raistlin807 View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but Master Specialist does not drop another School of magic. So with the minor and moderate esoterica (no need to take level 10 in the PrC)you get what is effectively a wizard with evasion, bonuses to dispel magic and at that point you're ready to take IOSFV and/or Incantrix. Transmutation and Conjuration are powerful schools but their Master specialist benefits aren't as good as an abjurer's. Plus you have to run to catch up with the pre-reqs to get into the powerhouse prestige classes.
    I wouldn't call their benefits not as good. Auto-quicken 3x/day or boosts to summons are nothing to laugh at. And if we're talking about Spec-related boosts, I have to mention Abrupt Jaunt, widely viewed as an auto-IWIN button. In fact, that one class feature replaces IMHO almost all need for personal protection spells.
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Abjuration; the 3.5 silent killer?

    Three words: Maw of Chaos. An abjuration spell for some unknown reason.

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    Default Re: Abjuration; the 3.5 silent killer?

    Three Words, gentlemen: Abjurant ****ing Champion. Boo-yah.

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    Default Re: Abjuration; the 3.5 silent killer?

    Quote Originally Posted by nightwyrm View Post
    Three words: Maw of Chaos. An abjuration spell for some unknown reason.
    Somebody out there really likes those Initiates of Seventhfold Veil...
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