(3.5)Monk Variants/Fixes

[Coidzor]

Other than simply taking the core monk and removing her alignment restrictions, what monk variants or fixes have you used/run across?

I'm asking on behalf of a friend who wanted a monkish sort of King of the Pirates figure in a setting/campaign he's working on.

I wanted to see if there was anything interesting before just passing along ToB...

[Flickerdart]

Fax's Monk. Very interesting, highly recommend.

[Starscream]

I always give them full BAB, a d10 HD, and treat their unarmed damage as if they are one size category larger.

They are still pretty MAD, but these fixes at least make them as strong as fighters, if not a little stronger due to their mobility.

Edit:
Fax's Monk rules. Now I want to play one!

[ericgrau]

Uh oh, this again. Search the forum history and/or google, you'll find plenty.

IMO just play a fighter or warblade or w/e. With a weapon and armor. No, fists and skin are never stronger and they weren't meant to be stronger in the PHB monk concept either. This isn't Dragonball Z. If you want to kill stuff, please pick up a weapon.

If, just as an example, you want to spell resist a cleric's disintegrate, easily trip him then easily disarm his holy symbol with attacks to spare, then you can do it with other classes but the monk is best at this. That's because the monk has SR, high saves, these attacks are easy regardless of BAB and the monk can flurry for more attacks. But try to flurry against something more difficult like hitting typical monster AC, and you just get a bunch of extra misses and low damage. Then since you didn't debuff the monster, he immediately pounds a world of hurt into your low AC. There are other similar reasons too. That's not all a monk can do, just examples. I like to think of monks as Jackie Chan: can't win in a straight fight but never fights straight. IMO fixing him by turning him into Goku is just a cop out. There are already damage dealing / tank classes, go play one of those.

[Badgercloak]

Unearthed arcana 3.5 has a section on variant monks, and everyother base class. Using that format you can create your own unique martial art styles. I used that to flesh out my samurai's kenjutsu.

[monty]

In my list of house rules, there's about two paragraphs of monk fixes, beginning with "Please just play a swordsage. But if you really insist..."

Anyway, here's some of the main points:

• Full BAB, because they're a friggin' melee combatant
• 6+Int skill points, so they can actually do all that monk-y stuff like jumping and tumbling
• Automatic Wis to hit/damage if higher than Str, to reduce MAD
• Speed bonus is untyped, so it's not meaningless at mid levels when the wizard can just cast haste
• Their extra flurry attack(s) can be made alongside a single attack, similar to Snap Kick, so their mobility isn't wasted when they want to actually hit stuff
• Eliminate Tongue of the Sun and Moon, because it makes no sense and the casters were using tongues ten levels earlier anyway

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Monk problems:
MAD: You need Wis for AC, Dex for AC, Con for HP, Str for to-hit and AB. You also can't dump Int since skills are pretty important.
Low AC: You can't wear armor, meaning that your Wis needs to be higher than the Armor bonus the Rogue is getting. Generally, you fall behind on AC. MAD excabrates this.
Low AB: Flurry of Blows costs at low levels, and the partial BAB doesn't help. By high levels, Fighters are Power Attacking for 20 and still hitting, so the fact that you can, too, isn't helpful. MAD excabrates this.
Low damage: You have to stack size increases(not easy) to get your fists up to dealing good damage, and you still end up not great. MAD excabrates this.
Wierd/useless abilities: Tongue of the Sun and Moon? Really? Are you really in so many situations where you need to speak Treant and the casters can't cast Tongues? Most of their abilities fall into similar problems by either replicating low-level spells or being too situational(or both), with the Capstone being nearly as much of a nerf as a benefit. SR is useless, too, blocking allied combat buffs and not helping with the BBEG casters or certain low-level deadly spells.
Limited abilities: A lot of their abilities only happen once/day, including the Fort SoD that is once/week. Speed boosts that don't stack with(and are inferior to for half of the levels) the most common spell to boost speed. Just not useful.
Poor synergy: Lots of movement-based abilities and skills, then a major class feature that requires a full-attack. All of their attacks target either Fort or AC, which are generally either both low or both high. The special combat actions are always either Str-checks(which MAD wrecks), AB checks(ruined for obvious reasons), or penalize light weapons and boost THF, meaning the Monk is poor at them.
Low skill points: Really, you expected me to put something here? Fine, MAD excabrates this.
Poor proficiencies: You're limited to using 'special Monk weapons', most of which have poor base damage and weak special abilities. Effective PA is pretty much closed off to you, and most of the weapons are Light, meaning special combat actions are harder. You also have no reach weapons at all, meaning that AoO(the normal method for dex-focused special combat action-based fighters) is sharply limited.
Unarmed wakness: Unarmed strikes cannot be enchanted, meaning you have no way to overcome DR/Silver or similar, and no way to strike incorporeal creatures at all. Yes, you can buy magic Kamas or something, but then why aren't you playing a Fighter and using something good?

Not saying they don't have uses, or that a Monk can't be optimized to be great, just that generally other classes are a better fit most times.

[Telonius]

Relevant houserules I use in my games:
- No alignment restrictions on Monks
- Monks get full BAB
- Monks get proficiency with Gauntlets (which are also a Monk weapon )
- Monks can spend time/gold/xp enchanting their own body as though it were a weapon/armor.
- Flurry is reworded so that it applies to the first attack of a round. Precision damage (sneak attack, etc) and Power Attack only apply to the first hit, though PA penalties still apply. (Power Attack functions normally for iterative attacks, if he happens to be making a full attack).
- Starting at level 4, Monks add Wisdom to their attack rolls.
- Nobody needs to turn off SR in order to receive a beneficial spell.
- Balance and Tumble are combined into one skill.
- Listen and Spot are combined into one skill.

This helps out with some of the Monk's biggest problems. STR and DEX, while still useful, are no longer completely vital, so MAD is reduced. Same way with INT - combined skills means better skill selection. Reworded Flurry makes it synergize with movement much better.

[Set]

1) Full BAB with unarmed attacks and 'special monk weapons.' Uses standard monk BAB for any other proficient weapons.

2) Add one simple, martial or exotic weapon of choice to 'special monk weapons list.' (This does not confer exotic weapon proficiency, so a monk who chooses spiked chain as her 'special monk weapon' option has to gain proficiency in it normally. A martial or simple weapon chosen as the bonus 'special monk weapon' is automatically also proficient for the Monk.)

3) Can wear light armor. This does not affect or impede the use of other Monk class abilities, although armor check penalties may apply to some skills, as appropriate.

[Fitz10019]

Doesn't Uncanny Dodge seem appropriate for monks? If you agree, at what level should they get it?