Shadowcaster question 3.5

[Stormageddon]

Can you take Shadowcaster to gain entry in the Unseen Seer PrC?

[Godskook]

No, since Shadowcaster does not count as an arcane caster, and Unseen Seer requires and advances only arcane casting.

[Stormageddon]

It's confusing because it states that a shadowcaster can meet the standards for Mystic theurge by switching 2nd level mysteries for spells. I have no idea what that means.

[Godskook]

Mystic Theurge is the explicit exception to the rules regarding Shadowcaster's prestige class options. Essentially, you can qualify for Mystic Theurge with SC 3/Cleric 3 or Wizard 3/SC 3(as long as you meet the other requirements for access). However, Mystic Theurge is the only class you can do that for. For any other prestige class, your caster type must match the required type.

[EarFall]

Mystic Theurge is the explicit exception to the rules regarding Shadowcaster's prestige class options. Essentially, you can qualify for Mystic Theurge with SC 3/Cleric 3 or Wizard 3/SC 3(as long as you meet the other requirements for access). However, Mystic Theurge is the only class you can do that for. For any other prestige class, your caster type must match the required type.

The latter of which would be terrible, since Noctumancer gives you all the abilities of a SC/Wizard PLUS tons of good counterspelling capabilities.

[tonberrian]

The latter of which would be terrible, since Noctumancer gives you all the abilities of a SC/Wizard PLUS tons of good counterspelling capabilities.

Until you realize that you can take both, and end up with 17/17 casting, making it at least reasonable (if you were planning to go Noctumancer anyways).

[wadledo]

Until you realize that you can take both, and end up with 17/17 casting, making it at least reasonable (if you were planning to go Noctumancer anyways).

Until you realize that shadowcaster sucks anyway, and the 3 levels of wizard would be far more useful.

[EarFall]

Until you realize that shadowcaster sucks anyway, and the 3 levels of wizard would be far more useful.

I had a player who played a noctumancer... was utter trash until level 13. Then he neutralized a lot of my spellcasters. Since we started at level 1, I figured I'd let him shine at that point.

[Yuki Akuma]

Until you realize that shadowcaster sucks anyway, and the 3 levels of wizard would be far more useful.

The last three levels of wizard are dead levels if you take Practiced Spellcaster: Wizard.

Oh yay, three extra spell slots? Why would you ever need to cast more than two ninth-level spells anyway?

[Sinfire Titan]

The last three levels of wizard are dead levels if you take Practiced Spellcaster: Wizard.

Oh yay, three extra spell slots? Why would you ever need to cast more than two ninth-level spells anyway?

Because some people like being GOD more than twice a day?

[Talic]

Shadowcaster, while not particularly powerful by itself, is key to a couple very powerful combos.

Killer Gnome and hyperreality.

Shadow creatures and effects are MORE real than real. Crazy, but possible.

[EarFall]

The last three levels of wizard are dead levels if you take Practiced Spellcaster: Wizard.

Oh yay, three extra spell slots? Why would you ever need to cast more than two ninth-level spells anyway?

Also, depends on the campaign. I've been in 25+ encounters in a single day. Sure, some of the 9th level spells are buffs that last tons of time. But eventually you get dispelled. Even a judicious user will run low with only 2 uses a day.

[tonberrian]

Shadowcaster, while not particularly powerful by itself, is key to a couple very powerful combos.

Killer Gnome and hyperreality.

Shadow creatures and effects are MORE real than real. Crazy, but possible.

I think you're confused. We're talking Shadowcaster from ToM, not Shadowcraft Mage.

[Yuki Akuma]

Also, depends on the campaign. I've been in 25+ encounters in a single day. Sure, some of the 9th level spells are buffs that last tons of time. But eventually you get dispelled. Even a judicious user will run low with only 2 uses a day.

Yes because we should all assume every DM is going to exceed the standard encounters per day by a factor of six when the system is built around four encounters per day.

At that point the system starts to break down, so it's not really fair to use it as part of an argument.

[EarFall]

Yes because we should all assume every DM is going to exceed the standard encounters per day by a factor of six when the system is built around four encounters per day.

At that point the system starts to break down, so it's not really fair to use it as part of an argument.

4e has hard and fast rules for that. "Do X number of encounters"
I've almost never played in a campaign (in 3.5) where you do four encounters and only four on a regular basis. It's more a smattering of "one big encounter" and "dungeon crawl" which often comprises of many encounters. Also, the standard encounters of your LEVEL is 4 a day, frequently encounters are not of your level, they are between -2 and +3 or so... which also changes the number of encounters.

[Yuki Akuma]

If you were fighting twenty-five encounters and yet were facing the same effective CR as four encounters, why would you even bother casting spells? You could probably beat them to death with your staff at that point.

[Sinfire Titan]

If you were fighting twenty-five encounters and yet were facing the same effective CR as four encounters, why would you even bother casting spells? You could probably beat them to death with your staff at that point.

It's actually fairly common for the 4 Standard Encounters/Day to be 3-6 levels higher than the party if the DM realizes how optimized the PCs are. In my campaigns, the players know better than to expect equal-EL opponents at any level about 6th. Around 15th level, I start throwing around 6 CR 12s at them as mooks, and 2 or 3 CR 17s as the major enemy. That's per encounter.

BTW< I started doing this when I realized that they could sweep the equal-EL opponents in under 2 rounds. My doing so taught them resource management and practical optimization, so they aren't wasting feats on things like Persuasive or Alertness.

[EarFall]

It's actually fairly common for the 4 Standard Encounters/Day to be 3-6 levels higher than the party if the DM realizes how optimized the PCs are. In my campaigns, the players know better than to expect equal-EL opponents at any level about 6th. Around 15th level, I start throwing around 6 CR 12s at them as mooks, and 2 or 3 CR 17s as the major enemy. That's per encounter.

BTW< I started doing this when I realized that they could sweep the equal-EL opponents in under 2 rounds. My doing so taught them resource management and practical optimization, so they aren't wasting feats on things like Persuasive or Alertness.

This. At some point in DMing, I started erring on the side of TPKing over the side of boring. I only actually TPKed them once, they usually just barely won the big encounters, so I guess I did it right.

[Talic]

I think you're confused. We're talking Shadowcaster from ToM, not Shadowcraft Mage.

There's a Shadowcaster from the Faerun setting that works well with SCM.

[Swooper]

There's a Shadowcaster from the Faerun setting that works well with SCM.

That's Shadowcrafter if I'm not mistaken. It's in the Underdark book. "Shadowcaster" always refers to the ToM class.

[wadledo]

Yes, and shadowcrafter is one of the cornerstones of the SCM build.
Or at least a very very good addition.