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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Blackjackg's Avatar

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    Default [3.5] Faking Good

    In a homebrew world, The Silver Knight lives in a manor house on a private island. He's a renowned hero in his world, a paragon of goodness beloved by nobility and peasantry alike. If the characters become famous enough for doing good deeds, they may receive an invitation to visit him on his island. If they become famous enough for doing evil deeds, he may come out and mess them up.

    In reality, The Silver Knight is a made-up character played by a Rakshasa for unknown reasons. He appears human using his Change Shape ability. He doesn't have a secret torture chamber/sacrificial altar/human breeding farm in his basement. He truly is doing good deeds, despite being profoundly evil by nature. Is he mad, or are his methods simply too inscrutable to guess? If the characters learn his true nature (either by finding the mysterious holes in his story, or through a True Seeing spell) and destroy him, are they ridding the world of an evil outsider or of a true hero?

    Those questions aren't actually for you all to answer, they're rhetorical questions that the players may have to face when they encounter the character. In this world, there are creatures who are objectively evil by their nature (mainly evil outsiders), and the Rakshasa is one of them. Take that as a given leading into my actual question: how can I make it work, crunchwise?

    What I have now is for him to be a Knight (PHB2) with a magic item that gives a permanent Misdirection effect, essentially swapping his alignment with that of a Celestial Tiger that he allows to live on his island (probably strictly for that purpose). So while he is a Lawful Evil knight, he appears to be a Lawful Good knight.

    What I'd really like, however, is for him to seem to be a paladin. This is tricky, as the paladin has certain abilities that are difficult to mimic. So I'm asking if anyone knows of any combination of classes, feats, or spells that would allow an evil character (ideally chaotic evil, but I'm easy on this) to effectively convince people that he is a paladin?

    EDIT: I'm looking for a CR between 12 and 16, if possible.
    Last edited by Blackjackg; 2009-05-25 at 10:53 AM.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Faking Good

    Wait. Is the character Good or not? Because natural tendencies aren't personal actions. They have a Lawful Good Succubus running around somewhere. She reads evil and chaotic if tested, but also reads good and lawful when tested. You said he actually is doing good deeds, right? Then his personal alignment would be Good as well. He could just be a Core paladin that way, no hoops, just backstory.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Blackjackg's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Faking Good

    Thanks for your input, HT. I recognize that, in general, the point is debatable, but in this homebrew world, the character is evil. By its nature, that's all it can be. It seems to do good things, but for inscrutable (possibly illogical) evil reasons. I realize many people will disagree with my interpretation of alignment, but this isn't a thread to debate that. I'm looking for ideas as to how a character who is evil could fool intelligent, seasoned adventurers into believing that he is a paladin.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

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    Default Re: [3.5] Faking Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackjackg View Post
    Thanks for your input, HT. I recognize that, in general, the point is debatable, but in this homebrew world, the character is evil. By its nature, that's all it can be. It seems to do good things, but for inscrutable (possibly illogical) evil reasons. I realize many people will disagree with my interpretation of alignment, but this isn't a thread to debate that. I'm looking for ideas as to how a character who is evil could fool intelligent, seasoned adventurers into believing that he is a paladin.
    If he acts like a paladin, he'll probably be thought of as a paladin by all. Just have him storm in and save some peasants, nobody will question him after that. Not for a goodly while.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

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    Default Re: [3.5] Faking Good

    You should have his house lined with lead.
    Zaphod's just this guy, you know?

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Faking Good

    Use summon monster to simulate a special mount. Cast cure spells to simulate lay on hands and Remove Disease by the spell. Smite evil may be harder to simulate.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Faking Good

    Divine Champion could give you some powers that would help you pass for a paladin.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Faking Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Hat-Trick View Post
    Smite evil may be harder to simulate.
    I'm sure its possible to make a Power Attack seem like a Smite Evil, if played right.
    Last edited by Vizen; 2009-05-25 at 11:31 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Raroy's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Faking Good

    Just give him paladin abilities. You don't need over complicated class combination to make up a mimic paladin. Your the dm, if the guy has an ability to hurt evil creatures then give him smite evil. You can cut a lot of corners by refluffing crunch. He doesn't have to actually be a paladin to act like a paladin.
    Last edited by Raroy; 2009-05-25 at 11:33 AM.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: [3.5] Faking Good

    Ordained champion of Hextor (LE deity) gets smite spells. If your world don't have Hextor, homebrew him to any philosophy/deity that values honour, might, duells, and oppressing the weak.

    Could he take a vow of poverty? Then he would get undetectable alignment and a lot of other nice stuff

    What else? A paladin has lay on hands and he has a special mount. Make the mount a charmed good celestial creature. A unicorn or something
    That alone should throw the group of the track.

    Find a sword that has a lot in common with a holy weapon.

    For lay on hands, use ordinary, clerical healing
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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Faking Good

    Thanks for your input, HT. I recognize that, in general, the point is debatable, but in this homebrew world, the character is evil. By its nature, that's all it can be. It seems to do good things, but for inscrutable (possibly illogical) evil reasons.
    If you're going to make this work, you're going to need to figure out what those evil reasons are, and make it at least possible for your players to figure them out, too. Otherwise it amounts to "This guy is everything a good person should be, but he's evil because I say so, even though he has no traits of evil whatsoever".
    Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
    As You Like It, III:ii:328

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    WhiteWizardGirl

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    Default Re: [3.5] Faking Good

    I suppose the obvious thing would be the evil paladin variants.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: [3.5] Faking Good

    The thing I'm most confused about is why you want chaotic evil... that meshes with none of the following:
    - A master plan that he might have
    - Being a paladin
    - Being a knight
    - Being a rakshasa
    - Doing good deeds to "Maintain" a standard...

    Really, what you're describing, if he does have some evil plan, is an archetype of lawful evil. Chaotic evil might plan, but they abandon plans at the first trouble, or they have haphazard plans.

    Now, if you want him to ACTUALLY be good, chaotic evil still makes no sense... so can I ask why you want a chaotic evil rhakshasa pretending to be a paladin?

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    WhiteWizardGirl

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    Default Re: [3.5] Faking Good

    Quote Originally Posted by EarFall View Post
    The thing I'm most confused about is why you want chaotic evil... that meshes with none of the following:
    - A master plan that he might have
    - Being a paladin
    - Being a knight
    - Being a rakshasa
    - Doing good deeds to "Maintain" a standard...

    Really, what you're describing, if he does have some evil plan, is an archetype of lawful evil. Chaotic evil might plan, but they abandon plans at the first trouble, or they have haphazard plans.

    Now, if you want him to ACTUALLY be good, chaotic evil still makes no sense... so can I ask why you want a chaotic evil rhakshasa pretending to be a paladin?
    He seems to be an LE Rakshasa

    So while he is a Lawful Evil knight, he appears to be a Lawful Good knight.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    MustacheFart's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Faking Good

    Chaotic Evil Rhakshasa + Helm of Opposite Alignment + Failed Will Save + Levels in Paladin = Typical, stick-up-the-butt, LG Paladin!


    You're welcome LOL!
    Last edited by MustacheFart; 2009-05-25 at 01:14 PM.

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    UserClone's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Faking Good

    Have you considered Hospitaler? It requires no such strictures as a paladin, and pretty much covers your basic abilities.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Blackjackg's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Faking Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    If you're going to make this work, you're going to need to figure out what those evil reasons are, and make it at least possible for your players to figure them out, too. Otherwise it amounts to "This guy is everything a good person should be, but he's evil because I say so, even though he has no traits of evil whatsoever".
    Ultimately I'm cool with "he's evil because I say so." ;) I'm speaking partially in jest. I'm not trying to be on a DM power trip, but I don't see any reason why the motives of an evil outsider have to make sense to your typical human adventurers. Or to human players, or even DMs, for that matter. Realistically, the goals of a Rakshasa have every reason to be entirely alien to us, so I don't sweat it too much. Plus, if I put the secret sacrificial altar in the basement, I don't give my characters much of a moral tangle to sort out. So really, I'm comfortable with laying it to rest at "He's crazy (by human standards), and he wants to play knight for some reason."

    Quote Originally Posted by EarFall
    The thing I'm most confused about is why you want chaotic evil... that meshes with none of the following:
    <snip>
    The main reason I was thinking chaotic was simply that he has this elaborate fantasy life, which he may or may not believe to any number of degrees. In some ways, he has conceptual roots in White Wolf's Fair Folk (Exalted) or True Fae (Changeling). To me, that implies chaos. But your points are well taken, and Lawful certainly makes more sense in R.A.W. Which is why I suggested chaos, but noted that lawful is fine too.

    Everyone, thanks for the suggestions. Many are being taken into consideration, and I'd be happy to hear more if you've got 'em.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Default Re: [3.5] Faking Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackjackg View Post
    This is tricky, as the paladin has certain abilities that are difficult to mimic.
    Just out of curiosity, which ones are you thinking of?

    Smite Evil: Hit bad guy real hard.
    Detect Evil: "That guy is totally evil. I can tell."
    Special Mount: Buy a horse.

    Lay on hands, maybe? He could maybe prep some Stilled, Silenced Cure spells in case he ever really needs to demonstrate that. Failing that, "I'm out of that for today."

    If this guy seems to be a good guy in all respects, how does that allow for a dilemma for the PCs? They'll have no reason to think he's Evil. They may find out that he's not really exactly what he appears to be, but there's a big leap from that to "OMG he must be evil!"
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  19. - Top - End - #19
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Blackjackg's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Faking Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Devils_Advocate View Post
    If this guy seems to be a good guy in all respects, how does that allow for a dilemma for the PCs? They'll have no reason to think he's Evil. They may find out that he's not really exactly what he appears to be, but there's a big leap from that to "OMG he must be evil!"
    Absolutely, and that's a big part of the dilemma. Because it shouldn't be as simple as "He's evil, so let's kill him." It's more a question of how deep do they dig, and how do they handle what they learn. This isn't the BBEG for the campaign (or at least, it doesn't have to be), it's more of a curiosity, a mystery and an opportunity for roleplaying. Frankly, I'd be delighted if they learn the truth and just let it go, because then everyone learns something about these characters.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Sstoopidtallkid's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Faking Good

    Crusader from ToB, slightly refluffed. Lay on Hands is duplicted by the healing strikes, Devil's Advocate covered a few, and the Special Mount could be the Celestial Tiger, he just allows the mount to roam free most of the time because he rarely needs the aid.
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Faking Good

    Pious Templar has smite. Not smite evil/good/etc just smite.

    Don't forget a Rak has sorcerer casting equal to his HD. That should help a bit, although I don't know which spells. Possibly mount to summon a horse.

    As for DE: He is too cool to spend actions DE? I dunno, some item which is
    his holy symbol, that has DE at will.

    So ECL 12(13? meh not looking it up) for Rak levels, 2 pious templar levels and you got all the more noticable Paladin Powers. Except for aura of good, which I don't know how to replicate. Seems hard too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Haven's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Faking Good

    This is kind of a false dilemma. Unless you can come up with a better reason than "He thinks he's doing evil when he's actually doing good, because he is a ridiculously specific and convenient kind of crazy", I'd say that the phrase "inherently evil" has no meaning in your story. The cues you'll give as DM will prime your players to think there's some moral dilemma, and they'll be let down I think.

    My suggestion, if you really want to go with this: make his motive that he's trying to gain people's trust so he can betray them later on. Acting as a paladin will let him do that.

    But as you've presented the scenario, I don't think there's actually any dilemma here. It might be more interesting if you take the basic idea, but make it so the rakshasha's struggling against his evil nature to do good deeds, which is a fairly standard story (see, say, Angel from Buffy). But the wrinkle it seems like you could go for here is that he's also deeply ashamed of his evil nature, rather than guilty about it, and that's why he's going to such great lengths to present himself as a paladin and hide his nature.

    As it stands now, though, it relies too much on fiat and artificial constructs of the world; I imagine your players might be confused, and think that they're not "playing the game right" if they don't go after him, because as it stands, the only real reason to think this guy's evil is that presented in-universe. So it's not a moral dilemma, just a "wait, really? The rules say rakshashas are always chaotic evil? Hum."
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Zombie

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    Default Re: [3.5] Faking Good

    Seeing alot of good ways to fake paladin powers up there. Most of wich shouldnt need to be used since with his reputation noone suspects him of anything.
    Not using a celestial unicorn for a mount can be "laying low so to not endanger the townspeople". Any mission he has that he needs backup from the PC's shoud be against some evil that can and will use innocent hostages. (if asked he does use his special mount when on simple solo missions to root out warrens and similar dangers in the wild where discression is not an issue).

    A magical item shaped like a holy symbol would be very in character. Such as touching his amulet when curing disease with a prayer for example.



    A deep hidden reason to do what he does could be that since the forces of balance always keeps the good and evil farily even, he plans to have the world be overwhelmed by goodness so when the balancing force adjusts like a rubber band in favor of evil, he is in a positon to assassinate alot of the top commanders of Good. This to "snap" the rubber band and evil to rule forever.

    Weather such a balancing force exists or its just something he thinks will work is open for GM adjustments. Weather he still believes this or it was only the reason he started (and is now "converted") also up to the GM.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Faking Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    This is kind of a false dilemma. Unless you can come up with a better reason than "He thinks he's doing evil when he's actually doing good, because he is a ridiculously specific and convenient kind of crazy", I'd say that the phrase "inherently evil" has no meaning in your story. The cues you'll give as DM will prime your players to think there's some moral dilemma, and they'll be let down I think.

    My suggestion, if you really want to go with this: make his motive that he's trying to gain people's trust so he can betray them later on. Acting as a paladin will let him do that.

    But as you've presented the scenario, I don't think there's actually any dilemma here. It might be more interesting if you take the basic idea, but make it so the rakshasha's struggling against his evil nature to do good deeds, which is a fairly standard story (see, say, Angel from Buffy). But the wrinkle it seems like you could go for here is that he's also deeply ashamed of his evil nature, rather than guilty about it, and that's why he's going to such great lengths to present himself as a paladin and hide his nature.

    As it stands now, though, it relies too much on fiat and artificial constructs of the world; I imagine your players might be confused, and think that they're not "playing the game right" if they don't go after him, because as it stands, the only real reason to think this guy's evil is that presented in-universe. So it's not a moral dilemma, just a "wait, really? The rules say rakshashas are always chaotic evil? Hum."
    ^ this.

    I honestly can't think of why this rakshaka would be... well... evil.

    what you got here is essentially what happens when you take deterministic alignment to it's logical conclusion. As of right now, he's basically a good guy. I mean, I get it, the Rakshaka in question might be the most evil thing in existence, but is just doing good right NOW for some nefarious end that is too complex for the human mind to grasp. That's what you want to get across.

    But then if his reasoning is that complex, that convoluted, and that mysterious, how does that make YOU able to simply declare he is evil? you got nothing there. At some point, you NEED to define what exactly does he do that makes him so irredeemably evil that a lifetime of good work cannot undo. Otherwise, his "evilness" cannot be related to.

    Having said that, if you're still insisting on doing this, you can do MOST of these via a cleric.
    Last edited by elliott20; 2009-05-26 at 02:48 AM.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Darwin's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Faking Good

    Having a simple Belt of Healing (MiC) could let him mimic the Lay on Hands class feature of the Paladin. That + his own word that he's a Paladin would be enough to convince my players, and probaly your players as well
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    Farlion's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Faking Good

    Hmmm... some input from me here:

    The Rakshasa loves to see people suffer, not just physically, but mostly mentally. He loves to bathe in the cries of the mournful, every scream sendig a shiver down his spine. He has been in this world for some time, but the people here are so blunted, that even killing the ones closest to them, does not lead to enough grief for the Rakshasa to bathe in.
    The Rakshasa comes up with an idea to restore the full state of sorrow in the land. He starts making "good" deeds, allowing the people to gain hope. Their moral rises, deaths and sorrow are few. Life is good, the crops grow, bandits are rare, there are great festivals of joy.
    In his ill mind the Rakshasa craves all the sorrow and pain he will get, once he unleashes his evil plan on the countryside, but the outlook for even more agony if he keeps up his "good" deeds for some more time let him postpone his plan into the future. In this state the Rakshasa has now persisted for a long time, too weak to put his plan to an end.

    Essentially he is performing good deeds to follow an absolutely evil plan.

    Cheers,
    Farlion
    Last edited by Farlion; 2009-05-26 at 05:22 AM.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Faking Good

    I homebrewed a class that takes care of most of what you want, with the only alignment required being lawful, which can be waved if you want. It's very similar to a paladin as well.

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    Cavalier

    Alignment: Any Lawful.

    Hit Die: d10

    Class Skills: The Cavalier's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (religion) (Int) Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex).

    Skill Points at 1st level: (2 + Int Modifier) x4
    Skill Points at Each additional Level: 2 + Int Modifier

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special
    1st|
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |Lay on Hands, Aura of Law 1/day,
    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |Knightly Grace, Bonus Feat
    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Smite Foe 1/day
    4th|
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Improved Shield Bash
    5th|
    +5
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Dodge
    6th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +5
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Bonus Feat, Smite Foe 2/day
    7th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Aura of Law 2/day
    8th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Noble Mount 1st-Tier
    9th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +7
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Smite Foe 3/day
    10th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +7
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Bonus Feat
    11th|
    +11/+6/+1
    |
    +8
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Ride-by Attack
    12th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +8
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Smite Foe 4/day
    13th|
    +13/+8/+3
    |
    +9
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Cleric Domain-1st, Lance Knight
    14th|
    +14/+9/+4
    |
    +9
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Bonus Feat, Noble Mount 2nd-Tier, Aura of Law 3/day
    15th|
    +15/+10/+5
    |
    +10
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |Smite Foe 5/day
    16th|
    +16/+11/+6/+1
    |
    +10
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |Combat Reflexes
    17th|
    +17/+12/+7/+2
    |
    +11
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |Cleric Domain-2nd
    18th|
    +18/+13/+8/+3
    |
    +11
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |Bonus Feat, Smite Foe 6/day
    19th|
    +19/+14/+9/+4
    |
    +12
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |Cleric Domain-3rd
    20th|
    +20/+15/+10/+5
    |
    +13
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |Bonus Feat, Stalwart Champion, Noble Mount 3rd-Tier[/table]

    Class Features:
    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Cavaliers are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor (heavy, medium, and light), and with shields (except tower shields).

    Lay on Hands: As per the Paladin ability.

    Aura of Law: Aura of Law is a Cavalier's final defense. Used when foes close in around him the Cavalier summons his knowledge of right and law, and projects a feeling of defenslessness and clumsiness against neutral and chaotic foes. Neutral foes take a -1 penalty to AC and BAB, while Chaotic Foes take a -2 penalty to AC and BAB. This effect lasts for 1 round per Cavalier level. The aura can be resisted by a (DC10 + Cavalier level + Cavalier's CHA mod) Will save. A Cavalier may use Aura of Law once per day at first level, and gains additional uses every seven levels.

    Stalwart Champion: In exchange for -1's to his Reflex and Will Saves, the Cavalier gain's +1 to his fort save.

    Mounted Combat: The Cavalier is treated as always having the mounted combat feat.

    Smite Foe: As per the Smite Evil ability, but only against Chaotic or Neutral Foes. A Cavalier gains one use at third level, and an additional use every three levels there after.

    Knightly Grace: At 2nd level, a Cavalier has been trained to fight on horseback, and when mounted on a horse or pony gains a +2 competence bonus when attempting to control an untrained animal. When mounted on a warhorse, or warpony, the Cavalier gains a +1 bonus to mounted melee attacks.

    Bonus Feat: A Cavalier is granted bonus feat in addition to those she normally receives. Bonus feats may be selected from the fighter bonus feat list.

    Improved Shield Bash: At 4th level Cavalier is treated as having the Improved Shield Bash feat while mounted, even if he or she does not meet the requirements.

    Dodge: From 5th level on, when mounted a Cavalier is treated as having the dodge feat even if he or she does not meet the requirements for it.

    Cleric Domain: A Cavalier, while not necessarily a religious warrior is looked upon with favor by his or her god. At 13th level, a Cavalier may choose one of his or her gods domain's, and use the first level domain power as a Cleric of one quarter the Cavalier's level. At 17th level, the Cavalier gains the second level domain power, as a cleric of one quarter Cavalier level, and at 1th, gains a third level domain power, as a cleric one-quarter of the Cavalier's level. Cavaliers cast based on CHA as Sorcerors, Bards, and Paladins.

    Ride-by Attack: At 11th level, if not taken before the Cavalier gains Ride-by Attack while mounted, even he or she does not otherwise qualify.

    Combat Reflexes: If he has not taken it at an earlier level, at 16th level, the Cavalier is treated as having Combat Reflexes.

    Lance Knight: At 13th level, the Cavalier has become a master of mounted combat, and as such is able to deal double damage when charging mounted wielding with a Sword, or Axe and Shield. Charging with a lance deals triple damage instead. The Cavalier's BAB, and chance to hit rolls are unaffected. The Cavalier also is able to disregard the -2 AC penalty while charging mounted.

    Noble Steed: At 8th Level, a Cavalier may spend 1d4 days familiarizing himself with a particular mount, and bind himself to it. In doing so, it becomes a first tier mount. At level 14, it becomes a second tier mount, and at level 20, it becomes a third tier mount. While mounted on his Noble Mount, the Cavalier gains a +1 to his Reflex and Will saves.

    If the Cavalier's Noble Steed is killed, it takes a year and a day to become familiar enough with another mount to replace it. Upon the steeds death, the Cavalier loses 200xp per level, with a fort save for half. In addition, the Cavalier must make a fort save, or be treated as having one half his total ride skill until he gains another Steed. Making the fort save reduces the penalty to three-quarters his ride skill. If the Cavalier's Steed is resurrected, the penalty to his ride skill is negated.


    Noble Steed
    {table=head]Tier|HD|Natural <br> Armor|Str. Adj.|Special
    1st|
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +1
    |Improved Mounted Combat, DR5/Silver
    2nd|
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +2
    |Shield Mount
    3rd|
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +4
    |Mounted Archery, DR10/Silver[/table]


    Shield Mount:While mounted on his Noble Steed, the steed gains the Cavalier's Shield Bonus to it's AC against melee attacks.


    Three levels of this will give you everything you want to play paladin and the rest of the levels can go to knight.
    I am trying out LPing. Check out my channel here: Triaxx2

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    London, UK

    Default Re: [3.5] Faking Good

    I really think you need a motivation for this being to do what he's doing. Not to reveal to the players, but so you, as the DM, know why he's doing what he's doing, and can therefore ad-lib what he'd do to react to your players thinking outside the box when the moment arises. Basically, the fact that he's being comprehensively good suggests that either he's got a really meticulous streak, or a huge stake in acting as he does, or both. Here's a few:

    Vengeful refugee
    The Rakshasa is in hiding from other, more powerful, beings of his own kind of a related nature, and has long fled his home and taken up this act. As a "noble knight", he can step in and heroically thwart his long-time rivals, without them suspecting his true nature, never mind identity. He maintains his disguise meticulously and is every part the hero, complete with a false redemptive backstory to convince others, such as the party, who might find out his true nature. Essential motivation: fear and hatred.

    Bored gambler
    He's been evil for millennia, and got curious about how the other half lived. Once he'd started his dress-up, he was further interested in how differently people reacted to him... and he's maybe got a high stakes bet going based on how long he can keep this up, and his nature concealed. Essential motivation: Entertainment

    Player of a slow game
    Basically, he's infiltrating the defenders of this world to get to know their strengths and weaknesses, so that he and other dark allies can at some point in decades or centuries to come, when a really good opportunity presents itself, move in and take over. Until that point, he's also clearing any rivals off the turf. (I like this one the least - it's too obvious, and would give him ample motivation to have the party eliminated if they find out his true nature, which dissolves the moral dilemma). Essential motivation: ambition

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: [3.5] Faking Good

    paddyfool has some good suggestions. Another:
    Vengeful Obsessive
    As 'vengeful refugee', but he's not just hiding. Some evil god offended him in a way that there is no atoning for - destroyed his family's souls, prevented the Silver Knight's one shot at ascending to godhood, or some such - and the Knight will settle for nothing less than the offender's utter annihilation. Being a god of evil (and/or chaos), there is no way for him to attack it directly, but that's not a problem for an evil, immortal super-genius. His research indicated that he can undermine the god's power and make it vulnerable only by substantially improving the overall Goodness of the material world, eliminating his worshipers and reducing the amount of suffering in the world, as all suffering feeds Evil God's power. Make the world a Good enough place, and the god's power will fade. It's a long-term revenge where the god will see and feel his influence being gradually eroded but be unable to do anything about it, until at last he either perishes or becomes vulnerable to mortal attack.

    The Knight is not doing Good for Good's sake; he is doing it specifically to destroy a hated enemy. He is utterly obsessed and committed, so until his goal is met he will NOT veer from his course of promoting Goodness and defying Evil. The conflict: as long as he does not succeed, he is one of the most dedicated and devoted crusaders for Goodness there is, who will not wander into atrocity or cruelty because that would undermine his goals. The minute that the Evil God is overthrown, though, he'll revert to his behavior of centuries past.
    Last edited by Lapak; 2009-05-26 at 10:55 AM.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Blackjackg's Avatar

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    May 2009
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    Victoria, BC

    Default Re: [3.5] Faking Good

    *Deep Breath*

    I didn't really want to get into this, but it looks like it's the only way I can put this topic to rest. Try and bear with me, and keep an open mind. Remember that what I'm saying is specific to MY outlook and MY campaigns, and is not meant as a blanket statement about how D&D should be. And if you don't feel like reading the whole thing, you can just skip to the last paragraph where it's all summed up.

    Alignment is a nebulous concept, one of which there are many varied interpretations. I have come up with an interpretation that works well for me, works well for my players, and generally fits both game balance and my personal philosophy. In a nutshell, it is this:

    Alignment has two axes: moral (good-evil) and ethical (lawful-chaotic). The latter concerns itself with what people do. The former concerns itself exclusively with why people do what they do. Thus, sacrificing a peasant on an unholy altar isn't necessarily an evil act (it probably is, but you never can tell). What matters is why you sacrificed the peasant. If you truly believed in your heart that it was the only way to save the world, that's a good act. Or at least a neutral one. By the same token, you could slay the most sadistic red wyrm dracolich in the land, but if you did it for the wrong reasons, it's evil. Now, your position on the ethical axis affects which acts you will commit in order to accomplish your good or evil goals, but that doesn't impact the discussion at hand, so I'll drop it for the moment.

    Now, I'm a big believer in free will, so I'm one of those people who believes "if it's got an intelligence score, it's got a choice." Doesn't matter if the entry for gold dragon says "Always Lawful Good," there's always a chance that a gold dragon may make choices that are evil. The EXCEPTION to that is outsiders (and maybe some fey). Creatures like fiends and archons are literally made of materialized conceptions of law and good and evil. An archon is physically incapable of putting its needs before the needs of others. A demon is utterly unable to be anything but selfish and cruel. They might be able to hide it with actions (lawful or chaotic, as the case may be), but underneath, their motives are anything but pure.

    The rakshasa, despite being a native outsider, is one of these creatures. It's a nightmare monster from beyond (beyond what, we're not sure). By its basic nature, it can only ever be selfish. This rakshasa in particular is eccentric, and gains some perverse pleasure out of playing hero. He does good deeds, but not for others. He isn't capable of doing things for the sake of others. He only wants to play his game, soak up the adulation, and laugh privately about his little "trick." Thus, despite doing "good" deeds, he is still fundamentally evil. Remember, this is a nightmare creature from beyond... its motives even at its most lucid are not likely to make sense to mortal humans. When one gets a little off-center like this guy, there's no way to fathom the depths of its inhuman mind.

    That being said, there are many ways he could react to an open and overt challenge to his fantasy, depending on the context. If they challenge him in private, he may just slay them and hide the bodies. If they "out" him publicly, he may try to draw them into his game, making them out to be deceivers, enchanters and villains in his demented shadow play. Think Don Quixote with a twist. Or maybe the PCs will learn the truth and just let it go, realizing that as long as he's playing pretend, he's not harming anyone. It's a roleplaying challenge.

    I realize my conception of alignment is probably not the same as yours. I haven't tried to force my way of playing on anybody at this forum, and I won't. Keep in mind that I've been playing this game for almost twenty years, and DMing for more than ten. My players have universally loved my games, my NPCs and my ideas. I do know what I'm doing. I started this thread to ask for input on mechanics, and many of you have given me just that. I'm grateful. To those of you who are more concerned with alignment: I appreciate that you're trying to be helpful, but when you argue with me about how I create my metaphysics or conceptualize my characters, you aren't giving me what I've asked for and you're not helping.

    Thank you.
    Last edited by Blackjackg; 2009-05-26 at 11:25 AM.

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