Why doesn't anyone play dnd 4e?!?!?!?!?!?

[CrazedBanana]

I really like DnD. Well, I like the 4e of it anyway. I tried playing 3.5e, and fell on my a**. So I'm wondering, WHY DOESN"T ANYONE PLAY 4E ON THIS WEBSITE?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[The Glyphstone]

It's only CR5 - don't worry guys, we can kill it. Anyone have some alchemist's fire on hand?

[Kroy]

This isn't really an appropriate topic (as in, it doesn't really fit with the community the playgrounders have built, not against the rules. Plus, it's like re-igniting the edition wars). What do you expect us to say? "I hate 4th ed.. It has no real ability to optimize. It feels like rolling a d20, adding one, and hoping to go over 6. I believe it's just WOTC's trying to make money, by cutting off the supply of stuff I paid >$200 for. It also reminds me way to much of WOW. Gary Gygax is ashamed of what became of his game." "Because I am too lazy and too in love with Pun-Pun to switch over." "Because I'm an evil Commie-Nazi" "Because I hate the kind of people who play 4th ed." "To spite you." The point is, this thread cannot end well.

P.S. I'm in the first category.
Just realized I'm probably feeding the troll.

[RavKal]

In part, because it's a primitive system. It's like playing Candy Land after you've played Monopoly for years. Also, the complexity of 3.5 is a comfortable tool, sort of like a swiss army knife.

In part, because I've invested a pleasant chunk of cash in my 3.5 books and they aren't in bad enough condition to warrant buying something else. Also, those pages in 4.0 are SUPER MEGA BRIGHT WHITE.

The biggest thing is that I like 3.5 better.

[afroakuma]

I really like DnD. Well, I like the 4e of it anyway. I tried playing 3.5e, and fell on my a**. So I'm wondering, WHY DOESN"T ANYONE PLAY 4E ON THIS WEBSITE?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Because you asked this question.

Right this very moment.

Yes, that's right. It's all your fault.

In seriousness, there is a small base of 4E players on this site. The 3.X presence is just more notable because it's grown over 8 years.

[Behold_the_Void]

Plenty of people play 4e here, but the game hasn't caught on too much yet. You will note a number of threads around with 4e in them.

[Gaiyamato]

4.0 == World of Warcraft crammed into to a bastardised D&D system.
I won't say it is rubbish...

...

I don't think I need too. :P

3.x has a bazillion mechanics problems, is seriously broken, but with a good DM can be smoothed out and made to work again.
That gives you a good system (good for a D20 system) with so many options that you can make new characters for nearly a decade and still not really duplicate anything. I make a character every day, at least one, sometimes half a dozen complex characters each and every day. Have done so for a couple of years now. :)
I don't even need to play 3.x games to have fun with the system!
lol.

Though if you look me up on rpol I do indeed play quite a bit. :D

[FMArthur]

4e's still the new kid on the block, and D&D has so many followers that you can't reasonably expect most to switch over to the latest thing. And despite the editions being numbered, 4th isn't necessarily an upgrade from 3.5th edition, just a different approach to the same idea. Add into that the fact that many people don't like 4e's different approach, and that 3.5e was successful enough to have tons and tons of supplemental material; switching over isn't necessary or urgent.

[Matthew]

People have different preferences, and they have to go somewhere to discuss them. Although this is not quite like going to Dragonsfoot and asking why none of the posters play D20/3e/4e (many of them actually do), it basically comes down to the same thing. This was always a strongly D20/3e orientated site, it is no surprise that it continues to have a strong following here. That said, I would say that a good 25% of the threads here are now typically about D20/4e (and not reasons why it sucks).

[Blackjackg]

4.0 == World of Warcraft crammed into to a bastardised D&D system.
I won't say it is rubbish...

...

I don't think I need too. (sic) :P

The world's a funny place. I said exactly the same thing about 3rd edition close to ten years ago, only it was Diablo, not WoW. It took me a long time to get into 3rd ed. (or 3.5, rather... I missed 3.0 entirely), and with the exception of the saving throw system (which is miraculous compared to the old one) I'm still not convinced that it's an improvement over 2nd ed. It's all a matter of perspective.

[EarFall]

I don't find it as stimulating. That being said, I can still enjoy a good game of 4e. I just find 3.5 better, and it seems to attract a better caliber of player. (it also attracts powergamers... but let's just say 4e seems to written for people n the 80-100 IQ range... not that smart people can't enjoy it, it's just not as fun for them. Like moving from playing chess to checkers. I wouldn't call 4e Candyland...)

[TheOOB]

This website has always been the D&D 3.5 website, the official 4e forums have plenty of people who play 4e. There are still plenty of people here who enjoy 4e.

Unfortunately this forum also has a lot of people who hold an irrational hatred of 4e and demonize it without following any sort of sensible logic. Just because the rules are simpler and less complex doesn't mean the system lacks depth.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Because spelling, grammar and inflamatory remarks like that cause the 3.xers to lump all of us 4th Eders into the same category.

Honestly, I prefer 4th to 3.5.
There's a few 4th ed games rcruiting and playing on this very site, as well as a number of 4th Ed-centric threads.

[The Tygre]

I was... kind of maybe thinking of buying it... I mean, Penny Arcade and Kobold Quarterly seem to like it...

(Raises arms in cringing self-defense)

[NecroRebel]

There's a limited number of DMs onsite. DMing is a lot more work than being a player is, and thus a lot fewer people want to DM than play. Further, play-by-post games are relatively difficult to get started. Most games die out during or shortly after their first battle. That makes it bad for DMs as well, as they have to think up a game concept, recruit, and get things started, only for the game to end stillborn. That's over a week of work - most of which is not fun! - for no payoff at all.

Those DMs and players who are part of ongoing games with enthusiastic and responsible participants, which do exist (I'm DMing one now) are not anxious to give that up. Combined with the limited time people actually have to play due to work or school, most are not willing to randomly start new games all the time.

I've noticed that there's not been any new 4E PbPs starting in the last several days, as I've been interested in joining one to play in. But I realize that there aren't a lot of DMs available at this time of year, so I just stay calm and keep waiting. I suggest you do the same, or, in the alternative, figure out a plot and such to DM a game of your own.

[Rutskarn]

4.0 == World of Warcraft crammed into to a bastardised D&D system.
I won't say it is rubbish...

...

I don't think I need too. :P

In part, because it's a primitive system. It's like playing Candy Land after you've played Monopoly for years. Also, the complexity of 3.5 is a comfortable tool, sort of like a swiss army knife.

Oh, come now.

Don't mistake 4E's approachability and streamlined nature for simplicity. Just ask a powergamer--there's as much tactical depth in 4E as in any other game, even if a few items didn't make it onto the equipment list and some skills are left to the discretion of the DM.

And that's just on the mechanical level. Obviously, on the RP level, there's nothing reducing the amount of depth possible. In fact, there are those that argue that the removal of "social skills" as numerical constructs deepens the gameplay in this respect.

Disclaimer: I, myself, am a 3.5 gamer, though I own the 4E books.

[ZeroNumerous]

In part, because it's a primitive system. It's like playing Candy Land after you've played Monopoly for years.

As a great man once said: You've obviously never known the frustration of being stuck in the Molasses Swamp.

[Rockphed]

Unfortunately this forum also has a lot of people who hold an irrational hatred of 4e and demonize it without following any sort of sensible logic. Just because the rules are simpler and less complex doesn't mean the system lacks depth.

As evidenced by quite a few posts higher up on the page. Such people really need to chill.

As for why NOBODY plays 4e, I cannot say. For myself, I really don't have the time to play any edition right now. If I had the time, I would play 4th for various reasons that I won't list so as not to feed the trolls. They will cry bloody murder whether I give good reasons or not, so I feel like being lazy.

[Thanatos 51-50]

I've noticed that there's not been any new 4E PbPs starting in the last several days, as I've been interested in joining one to play in. But I realize that there aren't a lot of DMs available at this time of year, so I just stay calm and keep waiting. I suggest you do the same, or, in the alternative, figure out a plot and such to DM a game of your own.

I'm still looking for a venue to try out a Shadar-Kai Wizard using Dragon 371 and Complete Arcane.
>.>

[Recaiden]

We do. Not as many though. Oversimplified system, less time, resentment of WoTC, all sorts of reasons.

[NecroRebel]

I'm still looking for a venue to try out a Shadar-Kai Wizard using Dragon 371 and Complete Arcane.
>.>

Yeah, I've been interested in a Storm Sorceror since I was flipping through Arcane Power last Thursday.

Also, you need to check up on Sailors on the Astral Sea more if you're still playing. We're waiting on you again

[EarFall]

Oh, come now.

Don't mistake 4E's approachability and streamlined nature for simplicity. Just ask a powergamer--there's as much tactical depth in 4E as in any other game, even if a few items didn't make it onto the equipment list and some skills are left to the discretion of the DM.

Disclaimer: I, myself, am a 3.5 gamer, though I own the 4E books.

The approachability doesn't make it simple, it makes it at a lower level, and streamlining makes it more simple, but not in the way that i think he meant it. I guess my biggest beef with 4e is a I hate the concept. I can have fun playing it, but all of it is based on balanced and ignoring all sense of logic. You can sell items for 1/5 their value. Wonderful. Even if you craft your own? Apparently. For no other reason than you are a PC. I train in all the social skills, and make magic items. But no one buys... because I'm a PC. Makes no sense.

That's a minor example. Sure, many would ignore it, but if the world makes no sense or hands out arbitrary restrictions, all its doing is moving back to 1e and 2e - you can't do it, but an NPC can.

[Rutskarn]

The approachability doesn't make it simple, it makes it at a lower level, and streamlining makes it more simple, but not in the way that i think he meant it. I guess my biggest beef with 4e is a I hate the concept. I can have fun playing it, but all of it is based on balanced and ignoring all sense of logic. You can sell items for 1/5 their value. Wonderful. Even if you craft your own? Apparently. For no other reason than you are a PC. I train in all the social skills, and make magic items. But no one buys... because I'm a PC. Makes no sense.

That's a minor example. Sure, many would ignore it, but if the world makes no sense or hands out arbitrary restrictions, all its doing is moving back to 1e and 2e - you can't do it, but an NPC can.

While I take issue with the offhand use of "lower level", this is otherwise a perfectly legitimate reason not to like it.

[EarFall]

While I take issue with the offhand use of "lower level", this is otherwise a perfectly legitimate reason not to like it.

My apologies. I do not mean to infer that an inferior intellect person plays 4e, in fact, the smartest one in our group actually prefers it. I merely meant to say the game itself is geared towards those who probably normally don't gravitate towards D&D intellectually.

[TheEmerged]

Well, I guess I and my local gaming group always *have* been a bunch of nobodies

Jokes aside, I'm old enough to remember the *exact same arguments* when 3.0 came out. Even the "they've simplified it to make it more like a video game" one and the "they've RUINED dual-classing" one. Frankly, as someone that plays 4e and WoW? That video game comparison carries a LOT less weight than people think it does. And I assure you, people thought all the changes in what we now call 2nd Edition were mistakes too.

I'm not saying 4e is perfect -- but then, neither was 3.x and neither will 5e be.

[sonofzeal]

For all its faults, 4e is one of the better tactical wargames on the market. Still, I prefer a system that at least attempts to explain itself and make "real-world" sense, at least for my roleplaying. I've played 4e, enjoyed it very much, and would welcome the opportunity to play it again. It's a better tactical wargame than 3e ever was. But it's less of an RPG, so I don't expect to ever fully leave 3e.

[DamnedIrishman]

I want to say that it is significantly because nobody is daft enough to shell out their hard-earned money for a whole new set of rulebooks when they're perfectly happy with the 3.5ed books they've already spent vast amounts of money on.

[Sir Homeslice]

the official 4e forums have plenty of people who play 4e.

90& of the people that populate Gleemax's 4e forums are idiots.

[RavKal]

As a great man once said: You've obviously never known the frustration of being stuck in the Molasses Swamp.

It's true, I was a Hi-Ho-Cheerio kid. And before anyone else comments on my Candy Land metaphor, chill.

I've played 4.0 and I found parts of it interesting, and it does seem more streamlined and shiny than 3.5, which leads me to another metaphor:

3.5 is sorta like the Millennium Falcon. Let that sink in.

[Rutskarn]

90& of the people that populate Gleemax's 4e forums are idiots.

You know, that's true of almost every forum.

Gleemax, in particular, it's true. Really, the only thing that changes occasionally is what kind of idiots inhabit it.

Previously, it was anti-4E morons. Now, it's pretty much pro-4E morons, supposedly. I don't see much of a difference.