Help fighting other PCs!

[Necrus Philius]

Hey, I am currently leveling a human necromancy specialist wizard (level 12) (was allowed to ban divination/abjuration) RP reasons for the divination as my guy likes not knowing the future and believes he can control his own fate.

Abjuration was banned because when I rolled for height and weight my guy is 6'5 and weighs over 800 lbs so he probably figured his girth would protect him. Our source books are Players handbook 3.5, Monster Manual 1 for 3.5 (for summons).

What spells would you use or how would you prepare to fight an arcane archer PrC(level 12) who did sorc and fighter levels, a dragon disciple who did the same (sorc2/fighter6/DD4) or a war priest (cleric/fighter). All individually or as a group? I'm level 6 now and leveling still (I only listed the route their taking) and plan on usurping leadership of the group in combat in the arena around level 12 so that's why I'm asking.

[ZeroNumerous]

Abjuration has Greater Dispel Magic which is necessary to defeat buffs and thus should not have been banned. Aside from that, you really shouldn't be backstabbing your allies.

[Keld Denar]

Evards Black Tentacles

If you can land all of them in the area, you should be able to beat them all in a grapple using your caster level. Its a 4th level spell in the PHB...go read it. Its good. If one of the characters is strong (maybe the DD?), you might want to lead with a Quickened Ray of Enfeeblement in the same round. The round after you get the EBT established, you can either drop AoE spells on the stucked enemies, or just cackle maniacally while they squirm like worms on a barbed hook. For AoEs, a Cloudkill would be decent, except they don't stay put. Acid Fog would be better, but that might be higher level than you can reach. Freezing Fog is right at the top of your options list. Its in the Spell Compendium. 1d6 cold damage per round, and your enemies fall down a lot inside, so they can't get out. Overlap with the EBT for maximum screwage.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

What spells would you use or how would you prepare to fight an arcane archer PrC(level 12) who did sorc and fighter levels,

Wind Wall

a dragon disciple who did the same (sorc2/fighter6/DD4)

Resist Energy(UMD or something), something that gives DR(Nat weapons have weak base damage, he has no precision bonus, and they can't PA well)

or a war priest (cleric/fighter).

Um...do you need to specifically prepare for this one? Multiclassed spellcasting is gimped enough, specifically preparing adds insult to injury.

All individually or as a group? I'm level 6 now and leveling still (I only listed the route their taking) and plan on usurping leadership of the group in combat in the arena around level 12 so that's why I'm asking.

Overall, tactically, I'd recommend not doing it through arena combat. That means you'll be outnumbered and not have surprise, and probably won't get your undead minions, either(you have Undead minions, right?). You want to hit them in their sleep, immediately after a combat, and have an Cloud Giant Skele deliver the first blow with a Huge Scythe(84 damage, forces a Fort save). Take out the AA first, since he probably has the lowest HP, then go after the Cleric.

Or you could, you know, not be a bastard, but then why would you play a necromancer?[/sarcasm]

[Necrus Philius]

Yeah I have minions and I considered hiding them with a rope trick and bringing them out that way if I can't bring them in directly.

No I don't plan on killing them, merely placing my dominance as leader of the group through honorable and glorious combat. I am kicking myself for banning abjuration instead of evocation but I am already past that point.

So instead of getting Greater spell pen you recommend I get quickened spell? I'll probably go that route at 10, the only thing I'm worried about is the arcane archer getting the first turn and obliterating me. I did check out evards BTs and will definitely grab it (Fiendish ape gets some nice grapple checks too).

Assuming I can buff myself with spells and illusions how would you recommend I go in?

Edit: OOOOH! Wind wall! Brilliant, I am definitely not telling him about that before I use it. You guys are great, also to clarify I don't plan to kill them outright (yet) since I am lawful neutral and this is just to show dominance, but ways to beat them outside of an arena setting (and how to avoid the same fate) is appreciated. Also they're all elves too, the DD however is a half-elf.

[Keld Denar]

Greater Mirror Image (Complete Mage) + Displacement means about 95% immunity to attacks. True Sight is needed to avoid Displacement, and even if they can see you, you have like, 1d4+4 images that regen 1/round each round that can take hits instead of you. Thats 1 round of buffage, since GMI is an Immediate Action spell.

Also, if you have Complete Mage, toss up Heart of Air, Water, Earth, and Fire (sounds like a band...or a recipe to summon Capt. Planet). With those 4 spells running, you'll be immune to critical hits and sneak attack, have Fire Resist20, have increased movement speed, bonus temp HP, and abilities like Freedom of Movement that you can call forth by dismissing those buffs. All have hours/level durations as well.

[derfenrirwolv]

Whats the guys int?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Get a Staff of Create Greater Undead with four charges remaining, caster level 15, each charge can animate up to a 3 HD creature (150 gp component). It should cost only 4200 gp with four charges. Use it to make four Shadows, hire some NPCs to dig ditches and have your shadows ambush them, turning them into more shadows. Your control the original four, which in turn control the rest. Being incorporeal they can hide beneath the ground and spring out on command. They can also occupy the same square unhindered when attacking. With enough Str damage you can defeat any core-only character.

[Necrus Philius]

My guys int is currently 20 at level 5.

[derfenrirwolv]

1st

Shocking grasp X2
Reduce person (works with windwall to stop people from flying at you)
Ray of enfeeblement
grease X2 (works great on weapons)

2nd

Mirror image X2. No one in the opposing party is big on aoe.
Touch of idiocy
False life
Ghoul touch x2

3rd

Ray of exhastion X2
windwall (for the archer)

dispel magic: The DD probably buffs himself, but will have a level 1-2 spellcasting level.

Fly: everyone except the archer is melee heavy. Get to the air and don't come down.

Stoneskin: Should keep you from getting hurt by the archer
Dimension door: save for a grapple
Enervation X3: POUND the cleric with these asap. You want to burn off his higher level spells in a hurry

5th

Cloudkill: cast from the protection of your windwall

Waves of fatiqgue: Make them all fatigued, then zap with ray of exhastion, they'll be exhausted, no save. -6 str -6 dex and no full attacks. Use cloudkill and watch them twitch.

Magic jar: Last ditch effort. Possess the Archer and have him try to kill the others. If they kill him good... pop up back in your body and resume killing.

[Iku Rex]

... I rolled for height and weight my guy is 6'5 and weighs over 800 lbs ...

(Not possible.)

[Necrus Philius]

Will have to get a wand with dispel magic since I can't cast it myself, not that big of a deal since they only use mage armor (except for the Arcane archer who is the real pain). Wind wall should give me the time needed though. Also the DD only has mage armor to self buff since his other spell is Magic missle which is pretty weak.

Thanks for the help so far guys, any specific undead minion I should have as a constant bodyguard for when I sleep since technically as elves they don't?

[Necrus Philius]

(Not possible.)

Then I was misreading the 3.5 edition weight rules set since from what I could tell it was about 120-130 lbs base with a x 2d4 modifier for humans. I am almost positive I was misreading it but that's what we went with.

[derfenrirwolv]

if the dd is dumb enough to use magic missle and mage armor as his spells.. ignore him. concentrate on someone competant.

[Iku Rex]

Then I was misreading the 3.5 edition weight rules set since from what I could tell it was about 120-130 lbs base with a x 2d4 modifier for humans. I am almost positive I was misreading it but that's what we went with.

You don't multiply the base weight, you mulitiply the height modifier and add the base weight. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/descriptio...eightAndWeight

[raitalin]

Then I was misreading the 3.5 edition weight rules set since from what I could tell it was about 120-130 lbs base with a x 2d4 modifier for humans. I am almost positive I was misreading it but that's what we went with.

Its 2d4x the 2d10 you rolled for height.


Sooo....4'10" + 17"= 6'5" I'm guessing you rolled a 7 for weight (800/120=6.666...) so 17x7=119 119+120=239. 6'5" 239lbs. A big boy, but not sickeningly morbidly obese and incapable of mobility like 800lbs. would be.

[Zergrusheddie]

Aren't Necromancers traditionally gaunt and pale from all that time reading through tomes of magic in a crypt?

Anyhoo, you can easily usurp power from that group without blatantly killing everyone; just show off your extreme power in combat or show that a single skeleton minion (Giants are nice) can be more effective than the Dragon Disciple. Another possible methods is to challenge them to a friendly fight and pull out all the stops to defeat them. This won't really change the attitude of the character, but the player will know damn well that you can just wipe them off the tables easily.

Windwall + Flight basically makes you instantly win unless the Dragon Disciple is a Large Creature and has wings. Depending on how many Cleric levels the Cleric has, he may be a bit of a problem. Enervation on the Cleric so he can't Dispel you. The 6th level spell Freezing Fog is Solid Fog, Grease, and 1d6 cold damage every round. If they have neglected to put points into Balance and have an Armor Check Penalty, they won't be going anywhere. Hitting them with Waves of Fatigue will lower their Dexterity and almost make it impossible to escape. Remember that Undead are immune to cold damage, so sending in some Undead with a Fly spell to avoid the slipping can also cause problems for your companions. The Arcane Archer will likely escape the Cloud because he'll have a high Dex and a low ACP; Windwall still completely shuts him down.

Best of luck
-Eddie

[derfenrirwolv]

Doh.. misread the chart

6th level

Symbol of fear (put it on the back of your cloak and turn around)
Flesh to stone on the archer
Disintegrate is always fun.

[Necrus Philius]

Its 2d4x the 2d10 you rolled for height.


Sooo....4'10" + 17"= 6'5" I'm guessing you rolled a 7 for weight (800/120=6.666...) so 17x7=119 119+120=239. 6'5" 239lbs. A big boy, but not sickeningly morbidly obese and incapable of mobility like 800lbs. would be.

Thanks for helping me on that, going by my way you coulda gotten almost a 2 ton half orc hehe.

The DD does have wings but his reflex and will saves are so low that I could have a fiendish ape reliably grapple him.

I've been putting points into my ride skill so I'll either get fly or some type of flying mount, none of the others have been doing ride so they won't be able to catch me with a fly spell. I believe I have enough here to work with, feel free to point out how I'd deal with some of the more painful monsters without abjuration thank you.

[Project_Mayhem]

Aside from that, you really shouldn't be backstabbing your allies.

Someone's never played Vampire the Masquerade ...

[shadzar]

Web...doesn't allow casters to use somantic components. Not melee to move freely

Grease...see above but more fun at parties.

Continual Light...cast on anyone's eyes.

[chiasaur11]

Someone's never played Vampire the Masquerade ...

Or, presumably, Paranoia.

[Kylarra]

On the other hand, unless it's generally expected as part of the genre (as in the aforementioned games) it's generally considered poor conduct to outright backstab your companions in most games. It's like CE/N chars or Paladins (/stereotype), it can be done and played well, but 99.9% of the time it's just going to lead to out of character conflict and frustration.

[chiasaur11]

On the other hand, unless it's generally expected as part of the genre (as in the aforementioned games) it's generally considered poor conduct to outright backstab your companions in most games. It's like CE/N chars or Paladins (/stereotype), it can be done and played well, but 99.9% of the time it's just going to lead to out of character conflict and frustration.

True.
This sort of problem always goes wrong without the wise words of Friend Computer. That would make people unhappy, which is treason.

[Another_Poet]

The element of surprise is your best bet, no matter what spells or abilities you might use.

Be sure to have some quickened spells ready, and/or command-word activated items (free action to speak). You'll only have 1 action per round to their 3 so you are lagging in the economy of actions.

[Glimbur]

Will have to get a wand with dispel magic since I can't cast it myself, not that big of a deal since they only use mage armor (except for the Arcane archer who is the real pain). Wind wall should give me the time needed though. Also the DD only has mage armor to self buff since his other spell is Magic missle which is pretty weak.

Thanks for the help so far guys, any specific undead minion I should have as a constant bodyguard for when I sleep since technically as elves they don't?

Can't use a wand of Dispel, you banned that school. You'd have to UMD it and I doubt you have UMD. Also, a wand of Dispel is a bad idea anyway because Dispelling is very caster level dependent.

Other than that... I think you've got enough ideas here.

[ZeroNumerous]

Someone's never played Vampire the Masquerade ...

I dunno about you, but I've never played a VtM game where we had time to backstab one another instead of worrying about someone else who was out to screw us over. The best time to strike is when the party is interfighting, and any DM worth his salt will take advantage of that to either halt interparty fights or simply kill you all if it's very clear you have no intention of working together.

[derfenrirwolv]

Will have to get a wand with dispel magic since I can't cast it myself

DOh, forgot that was abjuration. You can't use a wand to cast it either. You are effectively a non magic user for any item that uses an abjuration or divination spell. If the dumb fighter can't use it, either can you. The dumb fighter can't use the wand, so you can't either.

[Project_Mayhem]

I dunno about you, but I've never played a VtM game where we had time to backstab one another instead of worrying about someone else who was out to screw us over. The best time to strike is when the party is interfighting, and any DM worth his salt will take advantage of that to either halt interparty fights or simply kill you all if it's very clear you have no intention of working together.

Neonate

I would personally argue that if your playing Vampires of 150+ years and you aren't trying to manipulate every possible situation to your advantage then you are doing it wrong.

[Dixieboy]

Neonate

I would personally argue that if your playing Vampires of 150+ years and you aren't trying to manipulate every possible situation to your advantage then you are doing it wrong.

This Ancillae carries much wisdom, listen to your elders childe.

Yea, if you aren't backstabbing each other in a VTM game (Disregarding playing sabbat) you are doing something wrong.

Everyone has their separate goals and not all of those goals can be achieved so that everyone can be happy and that's how it SHOULD be.
The Camarilla isn't some big support group for people who needs hugs.