Question regarding Polymorph

[Blackfang108]

When Polymorphed, you gain the physical scores of your new form.

If you have increased one of your physical stats, does that increase "carry" to the polymorph?

I'm guessing no, but wanted to make sure.

Ex:

Stats are:
STR: 16
DEX: 16
CON: 16

Assuming I've bumped each of them by 1 since charGen,
I've been semipermanently polymorphed into a Dire Wolf(long story.)

Are my stats now:
STR: 25
DEX: 15
CON: 17

Or

STR: 26
DEX: 16
CON: 18

?

Thank you,

[shadzar]

If it is a current natural increase that is already included in your stats, then no you just change to the stats of the polymorphed form.

If you have a magic item that grants a bonus to natural stats, then it depends on the form if it allows for such magic to function, and then should grant the bonus.

You are giving up all your natural functions and abilities to the polymorphed form.

I would say your stats are:
STR: 25
DEX: 15
CON: 17

[Optimystik]

Natural increase no; magical bonus, usually yes.

If the bonus is from gear, that's when you enter case-by-case territory.

[Tsotha-lanti]

Natural increase no; magical bonus, usually yes.

If the bonus is from gear, that's when you enter case-by-case territory.

Interesting and important point that I've never thought of, but agree with. So you wouldn't lose inherent bonuses (as from wish or tomes/manuals). That is pretty awesome.

[shadzar]

Interesting and important point that I've never thought of, but agree with. So you wouldn't lose inherent bonuses (as from wish or tomes/manuals). That is pretty awesome.

Depends on if those are now natural stat.

Did that inherent bonus cause a change to your base 6 stats or it is continually added as a modifier for a duration the magic is active?

If it changed your base 6 stats to have it written down as a permanent change, then that magic would maybe not be granted as that stat was now your natural stat.

A ring that gives +1 to a stat would still give that +1 to the new form.

Maybe I am not understanding inherent bonuses still with what 3.x I have played. Where is the list of bonus types and how they affect a character? DMG or PHB, and what section?

[Yuki Akuma]

Depends on if those are now natural stat.

Did that inherent bonus cause a change to your base 6 stats or it is continually added as a modifier for a duration the magic is active?

If it changed your base 6 stats to have it written down as a permanent change, then that magic would maybe not be granted as that stat was now your natural stat.

A ring that gives +1 to a stat would still give that +1 to the new form.

Maybe I am not understanding inherent bonuses still with what 3.x I have played. Where is the list of bonus types and how they affect a character? DMG or PHB, and what section?

Inherent bonuses come from wish spells or magical books. They're permanent.

Magic items (like that ring, although no magic item would ever provide a +1 bonus) generally confer enhancement bonuses to ability scores. These only apply when you're wearing the item.

If you polymorph into a creature without fingers, the ring will meld into your new form and become inactive (and you'll lose the bonus). If you polymorph into, say, an ape, or another humanoid, you'll keep the ring and it'll still work.

[Twilight Jack]

My general rule when DMing is that a polymorphed creature gains the bonuses or penalties to the ability scores of the base creature, rather than the scores themselves.

So, in your example, rather than having a flat Str 25, Dex 15, Con 17 as a dire wolf, you instead gain a +14 to Str, +4 to Dex, +6 to Con. If you are an especially physically adept member of your natural race, those tendencies carry over to your assumed forms as well.

I find that this approach prevents druids from treating their physical ability scores as dumpsters (which is so against flavor it's not even funny) and rewards shapechangers who have a natural strength in a given ability.

Oh, and I should note that racial bonuses to physical ability scores are replaced by your new stats, so a gnoll druid with a Strength of 16 winds up with a Strength of 26 in dire wolf form, not 30. I.e., you can't abuse racial bonuses and templates to turn this into a killing spree.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Depends on if those are now natural stat.

Did that inherent bonus cause a change to your base 6 stats or it is continually added as a modifier for a duration the magic is active?

If it changed your base 6 stats to have it written down as a permanent change, then that magic would maybe not be granted as that stat was now your natural stat.

A ring that gives +1 to a stat would still give that +1 to the new form.

Maybe I am not understanding inherent bonuses still with what 3.x I have played. Where is the list of bonus types and how they affect a character? DMG or PHB, and what section?

Both. Inherrant bonuses are a permanent magical boost to your stats. But they don't stack with themselves. You essentially get, say 20 Str+2(Inherrant) for the remainder of your character's life.

The spell is confusing as heck anyways. Try figuring out how HP works sometime.

[Blackfang108]

My general rule when DMing is that a polymorphed creature gains the bonuses or penalties to the ability scores of the base creature, rather than the scores themselves.

So, in your example, rather than having a flat Str 25, Dex 15, Con 17 as a dire wolf, you instead gain a +14 to Str, +4 to Dex, +6 to Con. If you are an especially physically adept member of your natural race, those tendencies carry over to your assumed forms as well.

<snip>

Oh, and I should note that racial bonuses to physical ability scores are replaced by your new stats, so a gnoll druid with a Strength of 16 winds up with a Strength of 26 in dire wolf form, not 30. I.e., you can't abuse racial bonuses and templates to turn this into a killing spree.

Well, I'm normally human, so that last piece isn't an issue. (Thankfully)
I'll talk it over with my DM and see if I can get the modifiers instead. (probably not, but it's worth a shot to get a 30 STR for a Duskblade.)

OTOH, my Familiar probably won't be happy about my new form either way, as it now looks tasty. (poor little guy.)

Item-wise, I don't actually have any of mine. (not that they'd do me any good. 2 rings, boots, gloves, a Halberd, and chainmail.)

And at least I'm already able to open doors. (DM has ruled that push-latches are the predominant doorknob type. the mental image of a Dire Wolf holding onto the handle while he presses the latch down with his paw and scoots the door open stopped our game for about 10 minutes. This was about 90 seconds, realtime, after I came back from the dead in my new form. And, I have Disentegrate if I need it.:) And he said a spellcasting Dire Wolf was silly.)

Thank you all for your quick responses and help. I appreciate it.

EDIT: regarding HP, I think I'm good there. I keep the same HP as normal, right?

[Douglas]

This was about 90 seconds, realtime, after I came back from the dead in my new form.

Were you Polymorphed or Reincarnated? The answer to your question could be very different depending on this.

[Quietus]

regarding HP, I think I'm good there. I keep the same HP as normal, right?

Modified by your new con mod rather than your old one, if you were reincarnated.

[shadzar]

The spell is confusing as heck anyways. Try figuring out how HP works sometime.

Oh I have a working system for HP for my games. HP does represent physical damage and impairs other abilities.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

EDIT: regarding HP, I think I'm good there. I keep the same HP as normal, right?

AssumingPolymorph and no magic items, yes. At least until someone boosts your con in some way(or you level). The issue arises when you are wearing a Periapt of Health that becomes inactive when Polymorphed. Does your HP change or not? Then, what happens if someone casts Bear's Endurance on you? Or a con-drain spell?

Keeping your normal HP when polymorphing was a bad idea.

[Quietus]

AssumingPolymorph and no magic items, yes. At least until someone boosts your con in some way(or you level). The issue arises when you are wearing a Periapt of Health that becomes inactive when Polymorphed. Does your HP change or not? Then, what happens if someone casts Bear's Endurance on you? Or a con-drain spell?

Keeping your normal HP when polymorphing was a bad idea.

Of course, if you don't use the errata that changed how Polymorph spells work (as my group doesn't), then none of this is valid, either!

Confused yet?

[Blackfang108]

Modified by your new con mod rather than your old one, if you were reincarnated.

That's a...Good question.

The effects of my return to life are, um, complicated. And require pretty much the entire backstory to the nearly 10 year campaign. (People older than me started this while they were in High School, IIRC. I've only been in for about 2 years.)

And this is the character referenced in my Sig.

[Douglas]

There are three possibilities I can think of for this:
1) The effect is based on Polymorph. You get whatever physical ability scores the chosen form has, completely ignoring what you had previously and ignoring all level-based increases as well. Inherent bonuses from Wishes, Tomes, etc. still count, but that's it.
2) The effect is based on Reincarnate. You get the physical ability score adjustments of the chosen form in place of your previous racial modifiers. For a Dire Wolf's strength, for example, that means remove any racial bonus to strength you originally had and then add 14. The base score you had before, including any levelup increases, counts.
3) It's homebrew. Ask your DM. If he doesn't already have an answer prepared for you, point out the two options above and their implications and see which one he wants to use as a starting point.