Beguiler woes

[Zergrusheddie]

I hate the Undead; they are immune to almost every single one of my primary tricks. Against any other type of monster, I have been highly effective with Charm and Confusion making the 2 melee mop everything up in a couple of rounds. However, I have hit a little bit of a roadblock with Undead and Constructs. So far, my only way of being effective against them is dropping Glitterdust. I understand that Undead are supposed to be my bane but is there anything else I could do?

Best of luck
-Eddie

[kyuubigan]

Can you give me some more details about your character? Without that info I wouldn't know how to help you.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Illusions work still(actually better than they do against most enemies), as does buffing the party. Haste is, as always, awesome, and most of the party would love Greater Invisibility. You could also just sit back and let the party do the work, they deserve a couple of victories on their own.

[Zergrusheddie]

Can you give me some more details about your character? Without that info I wouldn't know how to help you.

Of course:
9 Beguiler/1 Mindbender Drow
SRD, PH2, and Complete Arcane are allowed.

While on that subject, what should I take for my Advanced Learning 1 spell? I looked at all of the spells and I Beguilers get pretty much all of them for level 1.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

While on that subject, what should I take for my Advanced Learning 1 spell? I looked at all of the spells and Beguilers get pretty much all of them for level 1.

That's pretty standard. If you want versatility, see if your DM will swap Advanced Learning for Ecletic Learning(Duskblade ACF, PHBII, IIRC). It lets you take one spell from any school as a Known Spell with +1 spell level. Generally fair, IMHO. Doesn't help with level one, but should open up your options a bit. For the level 1 spell, I recommend just finding anything that you don't get. It's not exactly a powerhouse level in the first place.

Also, are you using LA buy-off? Because otherwise you should look at Lesser Drow or something.

[Zergrusheddie]

That's pretty standard. If you want versatility, see if your DM will swap Advanced Learning for Ecletic Learning(Duskblade ACF, PHBII, IIRC). It lets you take one spell from any school as a Known Spell with +1 spell level. Generally fair, IMHO. Doesn't help with level one, but should open up your options a bit. For the level 1 spell, I recommend just finding anything that you don't get. It's not exactly a powerhouse level in the first place.

Also, are you using LA buy-off? Because otherwise you should look at Lesser Drow or something.

LA is bought off. Everyone in the party is a 'Monster'. Every Beguiler Handbook I have looked at always suggested taking a spell that does not exist in Complete Arcane or Core for Advanced Learning 1. I am completely clueless as what to take as Distract Assailant is unavailable.

[arkol]

Against non-inteligent undead create an illusion of a wall all around them.

That should do the trick...

[Sstoopidtallkid]

LA is bought off. Everyone in the party is a 'Monster'. Every Beguiler Handbook I have looked at always suggested taking a spell that does not exist in Complete Arcane or Core for Advanced Learning 1. I am completely clueless as what to take as Distract Assailant is unavailable.

You really don't have many options. It's a level 1 spell, just find any spell in your set of books that you don't already have.

[Sinfire Titan]

That's pretty standard. If you want versatility, see if your DM will swap Advanced Learning for Ecletic Learning(Duskblade ACF, PHBII, IIRC). It lets you take one spell from any school as a Known Spell with +1 spell level. Generally fair, IMHO. Doesn't help with level one, but should open up your options a bit. For the level 1 spell, I recommend just finding anything that you don't get. It's not exactly a powerhouse level in the first place.

Also, are you using LA buy-off? Because otherwise you should look at Lesser Drow or something.

Eclectic Learning is Warmage-only ACF. Duskblades do not have access to it.

So far, my only way of being effective against them is dropping Glitterdust.

I fail to see a problem with spamming Glitterdust every round. It's one of the 10 best 2nd level spells for a reason.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Eclectic Learning is Warmage-only ACF. Duskblades do not have access to it.

Still should be usable by any class with Advanced Learning. It really doesn't break eanything(especially since Warmages are better off without it).

[Dark_Scary]

I fail to see a problem with spamming Glitterdust every round. It's one of the 10 best 2nd level spells for a reason.

That's a binary 10 right?

[Leewei]

I hate the Undead; they are immune to almost every single one of my primary tricks.

Follow up glitterdust with legion of sentinels. Hit them with solid fog as well if you can center them in the emanation from legion. The sheer AoO damage from an undead creature moving 5' through the fog (no 5' step -- it's a full round action to move even 5' in the fog) is daunting. Incorporeal attacks against blind creatures are laughable. In most cases, the AoO only misses on a "1". Against incorporeal undead, you'd need more luck to get those AoOs, but they're still better than many spells against incorporeal creatures.

Alternately, use swift etherealness followed by solid fog on incorporeal undead and let your teammates slice them up with impunity.

[Zergrusheddie]

Do the attacks made by Legion of Sentinels qualify as Touch Attacks?

A quick check of the SRD says yes.

[Thurbane]

When it comes to undead and similar foes, the beguiler in our group usually Haste's the party, then Glitterdusts the enemies. Also, Solid Fog as required. Not to mention UMD on Wands of Scorching Ray and such...

[Frosty]

For a level 1 spell, why not take Nystul's Magic Aura? Perfect for all sorts of pranks.

[Sinfire Titan]

That's a binary 10 right?

01101110 01101111

Still should be usable by any class with Advanced Learning. It really doesn't break eanything(especially since Warmages are better off without it).

I agree, personally. As a side note: Who else thinks the Duskblade should have Advanced Learning for Touch spells?

[BenTheJester]

That would be awesome, if not a little overpowered.

Shivering Touch would NOT be good on a duskblade.

[BobVosh]

mmm duskblade with belkar's claws.

[Paul H]

Hi

Actually Slow is a Transmutation spell, so works against Undead.

And Never, Ever say you can't fight Undead - you have most of the best buffs any arcanist can grant:

Mage Armour, Blur, Invisibility, Silence, See Invisibility, Spider Climb, Haste, Dispel Magic, Invisibility Sphere, Slow, legion of Sentinels, etc, etc.

All these work against Undead.

Cheers
Paul H
(Beguiler player)

[arkol]

The recurring mention of the spell Legion of Sentinels made me go look it up. Since it was a beguiler spell I tried in the PHBII and found it. So fine you get 4 guys who can make AoO but.... attack bonus? Damage?

[Paul H]

Hi

Legion of Sentinals creates a 10' rad Globe of Warriors, not just 4.

If you reasd both the spell info & the intro on the spell list index, you see that:
Attack = your CL
Damage = D8 + (your CL/3)
AC 25
HP CL * 2
All skill checks taken with bonus equal to your CL

Cheers
Paul H
PS have forced an Illithid to flee after beating him with the legion.

[Human Paragon 3]

Hi


If you read both the spell info & the intro on the spell list index, you see that:
Attack = your CL
Damage = D8 + (your CL/3)

Wow, thanks. I can't tell you how long that's been bothering me for. Seems a pretty ass backwards way to organize info, don't you think? With half the information on the table and the other half in the description. Oy.

[Waspinator]

You could always grab say, a fire spell, and then the Fiery Burst feat. It's not always the most optimal choice for arcane casters, but it will give you a type of attack that Beguilers can't easily access. If the illusions and mind tricks fail, you can always try burning things.

[darkblust]

i agree with the waspinator.get a fire spell or something.a wand or gloves of burning hands work too.of course,you could just buy a good sword and wack stuff with it.good luck

[Talya]

I don't have the books in front of me now, but as i recall, beguilers do not have the Shadow Conjuration/Evocation series in their normal spell lists. However, those spells are illusions, and you can take them with Advanced Learning.

[Draz74]

If you want some blasting power, no need to waste a feat on Fiery Burst ...

Gloves of the Starry Sky and Goggles of the Golden Sun, from the MIC, are cheap and allow you to convert your usual spell slots into Magic Missile or Fireball, respectively (3/day each).

[Flickerdart]

I don't have the books in front of me now, but as i recall, beguilers do not have the Shadow Conjuration/Evocation series in their normal spell lists. However, those spells are illusions, and you can take them with Advanced Learning.

Not at 1st level of spells.

[Waspinator]

If you want some blasting power, no need to waste a feat on Fiery Burst ...

Gloves of the Starry Sky and Goggles of the Golden Sun, from the MIC, are cheap and allow you to convert your usual spell slots into Magic Missile or Fireball, respectively (3/day each).

I can't seem to find those. Do you know what pages they are on?

[Eldariel]

I can't seem to find those. Do you know what pages they are on?

Might be tricky to find as it's a collection. Both are actually a part of the same collection: Raiment of the Four. Page 204 in MIC.

[Waspinator]

Huh. Must've missed looking at that set before. It's a cool collection. Thanks!