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Thread: Gestalt Wizard
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2009-05-29, 10:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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Gestalt Wizard
Looking for ideas to combine with a wizard, perferably something spellcasting, but something that at least meshes well with my stats gearing towards int, dex, con, wis, str, then cha.
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2009-05-29, 10:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gestalt Wizard
Factotum [Dungeonscape] is the ultimate Wizard-companion; gives you great defensive abilities by applying Int to just about everything, and on level 8 starts buying you extra actions to throw your mighty spells with.
Archivist [Heroes of Horror] is a fine option too covering just about all spells in the game a Wizard can't cast. The last great option would be a Psion, which might actually be better than an Archivist since it again buys you extra actions to do your thing with.Campaign Journal: Uncovering the Lost World - A Player's Diary in Low-Magic D&D (Latest Update: 8.3.2014)
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2009-05-29, 10:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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2009-05-29, 11:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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2009-05-29, 11:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gestalt Wizard
Factotum and Psion are probably your best bets.
Ranger/Fighter/Horizon Walker is actually a decent one. It gives you all good saves, decent skill points, full BAB, proficiency in all weapons and armor, Evasion, better hit dice, immunity to Fatigue (if you select Desert terrain), Dimension Door once every d4 rounds (if you select Shifting planar terrain).
Cleric/Dweomerkeeper might be too good to pass up. You really only need to get your WIS up to 18, since you're going to be Arcane-focused, so that shouldn't be too much of a stretch.
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2009-05-29, 12:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gestalt Wizard
If we're talking sheer power, here, then the other option beyond Factotum/Psion/Archivist that's just uber is Beguiler. Like Factotum, it makes you a full-fledged skill monkey, dripping with skill points and with plenty of useful class skills to put them into. While it doesn't give you extra actions in combat like Factotum, it can allow you to avoid even needing to fight a good many battles, and also means that you can go Specialist and ban Illusion and Enchantment with absolutely no worries.
Less power-gamey options that still synergize well are also possible. Warblade, for example, can work just fine with your ability scores, and would make you an excellent gish. Possibly with a Swashbuckler and/or Factotum dip, or a Monk dip and the Kung Fu Genius feat.
Or you could always venture into Incarnate or something.You can call me Draz.
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2009-05-29, 12:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gestalt Wizard
Factotum and Psion are excellent choices. A wizard//archivist seems pretty cheap to me, but I suppose it depends on what the power level of the campaign is.
Another fun and cheesy way to go would to be a specialist, but then pick a class on the other side that uses the schools you banned. You could ban Enchantment and Illusion and go Wizard//Beguiler for example.How to Play Rogues Properly:
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2009-05-29, 12:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gestalt Wizard
I would go with either Wizard/Sorcerer or Wizard/Cleric. With the Sorcerer, you're basically the Ultimate Magi on Crack, and its the same with Mystic Theurge as a Cleric. The only downside, you don't get any extra actions, but all the spells your enemies can handle. Use the Sorcerer for your evocation or the Cleric for your buffs, then its all cake from then on.
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2009-05-29, 12:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gestalt Wizard
The only synergy in those combinations is that both classes can use the same (metamagic, item creation, Spell Focus, etc.) feats. Piling on more spell slots and spells known/prepared in itself gives diminishing returns, and requiring more good stats is a bad thing. An optimized gestalt character makes the best of as few ability scores as possible, and has few defensive weaknesses.
Duskblade//Wizard seems like a good choice for a gish build.
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2009-05-29, 01:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gestalt Wizard
I have to agree.
Remember 3 things:
1.: Only Duskblade Spells ignore ASF in appropriate armor. Armored Mage(Light, Medium, Heavy Shield) is clear on that. (unless your Gestalt rules change that.)
2.: Any spell with a range of touch (so no rays) can be used for Arcane Channeling. (Shivering Touch is a favorite of mine.)
3.: You CAN cast spells with Somatic Components while wielding a 2H weapon. Taking a hand off of the weapon and putting it back on are both free actions.
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2009-05-29, 01:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gestalt Wizard
I'll agree that Ranger is a good complement for Wizard. All good saves, good BAB, six skill points/level, and d8 HP, and maybe even dip two levels of Arcane Archer with it. Another decent choice would be Feat Rogue 4/ Swashbuckler 3/ Duelist, if you want better combat abilities, or just use Warblade//Wizard.
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2009-05-29, 01:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-05-29, 01:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gestalt Wizard
I favor the Warblade myself, as most skill-monkey elements are overcome by fairly low-level spells and the Warblade adds Int to pretty much everything. Provide with a reach Spell Storing weapon, a chain shirt and heavy shield both made of mithril and with the Twilight enchantment (Animated as well for the shield.) If you specialize in Conjuration, you could get Abrupt Jaunt from PHB II for tactical teleportation, or specialize in summoning for flanking options... Oh, I can't even begin to emphasize what Diamond Mind means to a Wizardly Warblade.
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2009-05-29, 01:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gestalt Wizard
Beguiler 20!
Drop enchants and illusions as a wizard and use them as a beguiler
Plus tons of skill points and and skills. If yo can get your hands in complete scoudrel you can get some nifty skill tricks.
And at level 20 yo bypass SR if your enemy doesn´t have dex to armor!
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2009-05-29, 02:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gestalt Wizard
Generally speaking - due to the way action economy works - you want to take something as a 'passive' side to your 'active' side of Wizard.
This is why, say, Wizard//Factotum is such a mind-blowingly good combination. You get Int to basically everything, you can add your Factotum level to skills, use spell-like-abilities(which admittedly, isn't that important for a Wizard), have some healing/turn undead ability. And the crown jewels of being a Factotum? Extra actions, imitating extraordinary class abilities and "No SR for you sir" ability for your spells.
Worst case? You run out of spells. So what? Between your long lasting wizardly buffs, insane amount of skills, imitating class features and all the other goodies of Factotum you are still a very impressive combatant. Not too mention, you're probably the SADdest class combination there is(you could probably easily get on by with a good Intelligence score and 8 in every other ability).
The point is - pick a class that allows for you to to more effectively utilize the abilities of your Wizard levels. While Theurge-like combinations can be cool ask yourself if you really need all those spells. You won't get double rounds to utilize them.
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2009-05-29, 04:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gestalt Wizard
Thanks for the suggestions! Can't say id go sorcerer thought, if i did id go sorcerer/warlock. I'd rather keep int the main stat
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2009-05-29, 05:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gestalt Wizard
For a melee combatant, my favorites are the Duskblade//Wizard Advocate mentioned and ToB's Eternal Blade//Wizard for Intelligence synergy in combat. Both rely heavily on Wizard spells for passive defenses, but the latter has a bit more endurance because its offensive abilities don't also draw from the Wizard's spell slots.
For a full-on caster, 8 levels of Factotum are almost certainly the best choice. Warlock/Eldritch Theurge improves endurance and gives some nice options, even if you cut the Wizard advancement from ET entirely.
With limited sources, Ranger//Wizard or Ranger/Assassin//Wizard are solid -- giving good skills, BA, HD, saves and some decent class abilities to supplement your casting.
Swift Hunter, Swiftblade and Dread Commando also mesh pretty well on the non-Wizard side.
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2009-05-29, 06:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gestalt Wizard
Another benefit of Warblade I'm surprised nobody else mentioned is that it gives you a ton more hit points than a regular wizard, and also boosts your other saving throw (since wizards already get a good progression from one of the two important saves). Yeah, that might not matter much once you get up to the godly power of a high-level wizard, but it can sure make it easier to survive long enough to get that power.
Of course, you can mix and match, too. Three levels of Factotum is enough to give you your Int mod to initiative, saves, and attack rolls (when needed), and you could go Warblade from there, for instance. Maybe take one level of Incarnate at level 4, to pick up some soulmelds and start your Warblade progression with 2nd-level maneuvers.Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
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2009-05-30, 11:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gestalt Wizard
Two levels of Paladin gets you cha to saves
1 level of monk gives you wis to AC.
But, that probably wouldn't help you too much since those are low on the list.
You could do worse than rogue. Lots of skill points, and sneak attack which can apply to some spells.Spoiler
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2009-05-30, 08:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gestalt Wizard
You could do what I did with my gestalted wizard. I gave her swashbuckler-3, rogue-3, and then duelist. Ups your defenses, and you can stick that sneak attack on some spells. That and you have a load of skill points and most class skills. And evasion. It really depends on your character concept though.
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2009-05-30, 10:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gestalt Wizard
"something with spell resistance" race Wizard/Initiate of 7fold cheese // Fighter/Swashbuckler/Dervish10. I dont care how you do it, just get Dervish 10. If I were this insane, I would specialize in combat oriented buffs: speed buffs, combat enhancement spells, develop an AoE or mass target-able paralyze spell before dervish dances, among other wizardy-type goodness.
Batman wizard can go to hades. to make a melee capable wizard without any type of polymorph cheese or batman wizard thing would be my epic goal.
But I'm a melee fan boy, so I obviously have no idea how to play DnD.Last edited by Quirinus_Obsidian; 2009-05-30 at 10:15 PM.
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2009-05-30, 11:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gestalt Wizard
Well, Dicefreak's Jaerom Darkwind's blade scholar class could do. Nine disciplines, medium BAB, d8 hit dice, medium armor, all discipline related weapons and the ability to learn a theroretically unlimited number of maneuvers provided you were willing to spend funds and time doing it.
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2009-05-31, 12:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gestalt Wizard
Arcane Swordsage//Wizard. Put all the cheesy spells on AS's side (polymorph chain, celerity etc) and devote your Wiz spell slots to utility spells :)
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2009-05-31, 02:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gestalt Wizard
what about something with LA? Im planning on playing a gestalt wizard soon and I was planning on going with an alhoon, mindflayer then becoming a lich.
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2009-05-31, 07:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gestalt Wizard
She's a Lich, may we burn her
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2009-05-31, 08:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gestalt Wizard
Factotum; a wizard with more than one standard action on his first turn automatically wins.
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2009-05-31, 01:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gestalt Wizard
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2009-06-01, 01:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gestalt Wizard
That link just gave me a idea... Wizard + Wildshape variant Ranger + Natural Spell.
See what you can do about the animal companion. Either improve it somehow - I think there are some feats that improve your animal companion or your familiar if you have both - or trade it out for a alternative class feature.
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2009-06-01, 02:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gestalt Wizard
Wild Shape Ranger 5/ Master of Many Forms 7/ Nature's Warrior 1/ Warshaper 4/ MoMF +3. There's a PH2 variant to swap out your animal companion, but you want to keep your Ranger spellcasting for Rhino's Rush.
I'm running a gestalt game right now, one of the guys (an anti-optimizer) just made a Dread Necromancer//Ranger. He has Versatile Spellcaster, so he can use his Dread Necromancer spell slots to spontaneously cast the entire Ranger spell list. He's only played the character one session, but I expect to see a lot of versatility out of him.
A gestalt spontaneous spellcaster//Wizard with Versatile Spellcaster can spontaneously cast any Wizard spell he knows, which could get extremely useful. That makes Duskblade an excellent choice.