Monk/Wizard

[vartan]

Recently I stumbled upon a statement in the 3.5 PHB that a wizard could use an unarmed attack to deliver a touch spell. In 3.0 FR there is a Monastic Order "The Shining Hands" that worship Azuth and can multi-class as Wizard as long as their monk level equals or exceeds the wizard level. Has anyone ever used or heard of a monkizard capable of casting shocking grasp and then punching an enemy to discharge it?

[Flickerdart]

Not really, cause Monks make awful gishes due to sucking. You want Duskblades and such, they can channel spells through melee attacks.

[sonofzeal]

Actually, a Monk dip might work. Boost your saves, boost your AC (not a major concern, but nice to have), get Improved Grapple (not going to save your butt in an AMF, but better than nothing) and Deflect Arrows (for those archers who love disrupting spellcasting). Certainly far from optimal, but probably well within the bounds of playability. In a low-optimization, high-lethality group, this could give you some added survivability without requiring the standard twinky uber-prepared defenses.

[Baron Corm]

Flickerdart, that wasn't very helpful at all. Try to give a reason for your response, especially to someone who is new. I also think you missed the point of what he was saying. He's not trying to build a gish, just looking at this one combo. As a sidenote which really isn't related to the topic, any class which doesn't advance spellcasting makes a bad gish; monks "sucking" has nothing to do with it.

Back on topic, I'm assuming you meant a 1-level dip into wizard for shocking grasp, with something like Practiced Spellcaster to give you the extra 4d6 damage? It only applies to the first attack of the fight, after which it is discharged. During a fight, your standard action to cast the spell would be better spent elsewhere. So no, I don't think this a very effective combo.

[tyckspoon]

Has anyone ever used or heard of a monkizard capable of casting shocking grasp and then punching an enemy to discharge it?

Enlightened Fist, a Prestige Class in... hmm, not Complete Mage, so must be Complete Arcane. It's all about this. It'll make the concept work approximately infinity times better than just split-classing monk and wizard.

[ZeroNumerous]

A monk 1/Wizard 4/Enlightened Fist 10/Whatever 5 might be valid. Just be sure to use Cardamine Monk/Kung Fu Genius to negate MAD.

[Frog Dragon]

Get the Ascetic Mage Feat. It's from CADV. Yeah so. A Monk/Wiz/Enlightened Fist is the way to go. With Ascetic Mage to start the stacking even before Enlightender Fist.

[ZeroNumerous]

Get the Ascetic Mage Feat. It's from CADV. Yeah so. A Monk/Wiz/Enlightened Fist is the way to go. With Ascetic Mage to start the stacking even before Enlightender Fist.

Off the top of my head, that only applies to Sorcerer.

[Claudius Maximus]

Just posting to clarify that it is indeed Sorcerer only (ZN didn't sound too sure).

EDIT: It's actually "spontaneous caster" only, so you could do it with Warmage or something too.

[Stormageddon]

I haven't heard of it, but you have given me a great idea for a 7monk/13 duskblade. The great deal of attacks the monk gets would work great with a full attack channel that the duskblade gets at level 13.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

I haven't heard of it, but you have given me a great idea for a 7monk/13 duskblade. The great deal of attacks the monk gets would work great with a full attack channel that the duskblade gets at level 13.

Why Monk 7? It gets Flurry of Blows at 1, a bonus feat at 2 and 6, and Unarmed Damage maxes at 11.
I'd recommend Duskblade 13/Monk 1/Enlightened Fist 6 or something long before 7 levels of Monk.

[J.Gellert]

It's a shame Monk/Wizards have so few PrCs to work with (Enlightened Fist and Master of East Wind, if I remember correctly? Do let me know if there are others out there, official or third party). It's a very interesting combo if you watch any anime.

[lord_khaine]

a better option would be Talashtorian (or however its spelled) from secrets of sarlona, it makes monk levels stack with a manifester class of your choice for unarmed damage, speed and flurry of blows.

that way you can also make a monk/psion/slayer or just a
monk/psionic warrior.

[Dagren]

Back on topic, I'm assuming you meant a 1-level dip into wizard for shocking grasp, with something like Practiced Spellcaster to give you the extra 4d6 damage? It only applies to the first attack of the fight, after which it is discharged. During a fight, your standard action to cast the spell would be better spent elsewhere. So no, I don't think this a very effective combo.

How about Chill Touch? It wouldn't be as much damage, but it works 1/level, and deals a small amount of Str damage too.

[Leon]

See if your DM will let you use the Enlightened fist with Wizards instead of the Sorcerer, most PrCs are adjustable to a different style with a little bit of work

[Yuki Akuma]

See if your DM will let you use the Enlightened fist with Wizards instead of the Sorcerer, most PrCs are adjustable to a different style with a little bit of work

It does work with wizards. It works with any arcane caster that can cast 3rd level spells (so... any arcane caster).

Ascetic Mage only works with spontaneous casters, but you can even make a wizard do that with the right feats.

[The Rose Dragon]

It does work with wizards. It works with any arcane caster that can cast 3rd level spells (so... any arcane caster).

Not really. It works with Arcane Caster Level 3rd, rather than an arcane caster that can cast 3rd level spells. So, a 3rd-level Warlock, as well as a 3rd-level Sorcerer, can benefit from the class.

Although one of the class features specifically requires spell slots, so Warlock loses some of the utility.

[Yuki Akuma]

Oh, I misread the prerequisites. My apologies.

[Sir Giacomo]

Then there is always the option to be just a monk and use wands for all lvl 1-4 touch spells...

- Giacomo

[SurlySeraph]

How about Chill Touch? It wouldn't be as much damage, but it works 1/level, and deals a small amount of Str damage too.

This. If you can get the Fell Drain feat, which deals a negative level when you do damage with a spell, and Arcane Thesis or other metamagic reducers, this becomes awesome. Doing a negative level every time you touch someone, when you have Flurry of Blows? Yes please. This is the effect of Spectral Touch (a 5th-level spell) for a 1st or 2nd level slot.

Also, taking the Arcane Disciple feat (which lets you cast a divine spell as an arcane spell) for Divine Might is very helpful.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Switch Wizard for Sorcerer and use Ascetic Mage to get your Cha bonus to AC. A Monk 1/ Sorcerer 4/ Enlightened Fist 5/ Master of the East Wind 10 gets 18th level spellcasting before Practiced Spellcaster, and 16th level Monk abilities before a Monk's Belt or Tattoo.

[raptor1056]

If you want to be cheap as hell, you could take levels in wizard/sorc until you get to lev 3 spells, then use the spell Shivering Touch, from Frostburn, in conjunction with monk attacks. 3d6 Dex on a touch attack? Ouch.

[monty]

If you want to be cheap as hell, you could take levels in wizard/sorc until you get to lev 3 spells, then use the spell Shivering Touch, from Frostburn, in conjunction with monk attacks. 3d6 Dex on a touch attack? Ouch.

If you use it with monk attacks, then you're making regular attacks, not touch attacks. The point of doing it that way is to do unarmed damage in addition to the spell effect. If you want to do touch attacks, just cast the spell normally. Or use wraithstrike.

[Zaq]

I'd sooner see a Wizard just gish himself (or herself, we're equal-opportunity here) up than actually split-class with Monk. Fist of Stone, Bite of the Werewhatever, (Greater) Mighty Wallop, Wraithstrike, Haste, Alter Self, and so on will make you a much better melee combatant than a monk/wiz. You won't be able to flurry, but I can think of only a tiny tiny number of spells in which that would actually make a difference, and those require either quickening or spending multiple turns to actually use (standard to cast, full to flurry).

Why burn levels when you can just burn spells?

[Woot Spitum]

One thing to remember if you plan on using touch spells as your primary method of attack, is that if you don't discharge a touch spell immediately after casting, you can hold the charge for it indefinately, so you can cast the spell well before you get into combat just to be ready.

Incidentally, I don't recall the the rules ever stating that you can't hold multiple charges, so you could probably get away with casting a touch spell on each hand prior to combat. Of course since the monk can strike with feet, elbows, and knees as well as fists, it's concievable that you could have up to eight touch spells cast and ready to be discharged before any given fight.

[Leon]

Fair enough
I'm nowhere near my books so i was offering a generic suggestion to adapt if it didn't fit

[tyckspoon]

If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.

In Actions In Combat and repeated in Spell Descriptions- Touch Spells and Holding the Charge.

There is a spell whose function is to enable holding more than one Touch spell. It's.. fourth level, I think, and called 'Arcane Flower' or something cheesy like that. Spell Compendium is the current source.

[Woot Spitum]

In Actions In Combat and repeated in Spell Descriptions- Touch Spells and Holding the Charge.

There is a spell whose function is to enable holding more than one Touch spell. It's.. fourth level, I think, and called 'Arcane Flower' or something cheesy like that. Spell Compendium is the current source.

So it is. Too bad.