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2009-05-30, 05:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Thought experiments on Haberdash and Item Creation
Hello there. First time posting, though long-time watcher. It's almost like a second home in terms of role-playing sources.
Now, I understand that some people may not like this slight experiment, but I need some help working this out. It has pretty much taken a lot of my time, and I figure several people think better than one.
This is a small thought experiment; although the name may conjure monstrous creations such as Pun-Pun and other cheese, it's pretty much intentional. This could serve for people wishing to work something different, or as a method to block as of yet unthought cheese. As well, it may end nowhere. But it's, so to speak, for my peace of mind. The ideas running around have led to funny conclusions, and I could use some help dispelling doubts and probably removing this line of thought for better things (such as actual roleplaying and or DMing, and so forth)
Anyways, here's the details:
While watching the forums, I stumbled upon the local Haberdash build, by Person Man et als. I had a similar idea running around, and the build helped a lot to take some decisions (mostly, on taking Master of Masks and reaching the power of Kaorti/ribbon weapons) Unlike suggested on the build, though, I made a few changes. It's a level 20th build, so it's quite impractical, but I'll place it for purposes of analysis.
Changeling Factotum 9/Master of Masks 1/Chameleon 10
*It could be either Human or Doppleganger, but considering that Changeling is the result of a human and a doppleganger, it bears the question. Of course, if not possible (it's for flavor purposes), a human is fine.
Feats: Able Learner, Bind Vestige, Defensive Shell, Hidden Talent, Martial Study, Martial Stance, Minor Utterance of the Evolving Mind, Shape Soulmeld
*Both Able Learner and Hidden Talent are 1st level only feats. A human could gain access to both easily, but in this case, given it's just a theoretical build with every book open, you could consider the second 1st level feat as a result of a flaw (in this case, Frail). The other feats are mostly to give the flavor of an individual who can very well do anything.
You may notice I haven't included the Chameleon everchanging bonus feat. This is part of the exercise, so bear with me while I apply it later.
For purposes of stats: Int is evidently the highest score, followed by Dex, Wis, and Cha. Int should be 18 or higher; this is the Factotum score per excellence. Wis must have a minimum of 16 for purposes of casting spells. Dex takes precedence over Cha. Str can be left as a "dump" stat for this exercise; Con should have a minimum of 13 to qualify for Shape Soulmeld.
Skill-wise, consider having max Use Magic/Psionic Device skill ranks, a modicum of Truenaming (for Minor Utterance, however useful that may be), Spellcraft and Psicraft at considerable points, and the rest however you like. If necessary, all Craft ranks applicable should be at maximum (this probably means Craft [armorsmithing, arrowmaking, bowmaking, jewelry, weaponsmithing])
Now, for the exercise:
Originally Posted by Races of Destiny, page 113, Chameleon class features, Bonus Feat
Originally Posted by Races of Destiny, page 113
Now, here's where I find myself asking you:
A) Has this experiment been tried before? Perhaps on the archives of this forum, the WotC forums, or the BG forums? It would be helpful to find resources on this.
B) By RAW and RAI, and considering errata: can the Factotum class ability Arcane Dilettante allow this theoretical character to be considered having a caster level for purposes of qualifying for Item Creation feats? It would be stupid, not to mention useless, to propose such idea without considering if it's legal or not. It would at least offer some peace of mind. Note: I'm asking whether if it is possible or not through what it is presented in the books as well as your possible interpretations; whether a DM allows this or not in his or her particular game should not apply. Either strict interpretation of the rules or personal interpretations as players and collaborating DMs.
C) Considering that B) is true (Arcane Dilettante allows to qualify for item creation feats), how would this work? Most specifically: the DMG requires a character to comply with a minimum caster level to create a magic item. Would the Chameleon's caster level suffice, or does it requires to use the Factotum's caster level instead? Is the minimum caster level requirement for the creation of magic items depending on the minimum caster level required to cast the highest spell to prepare the item, or does it depends on the actual character's caster level?
D) Considering that B) is true: which would be good ways to improve caster level for purposes of qualifying for the feats? To explain further: according to the PHB (and easily accessible through the SRD), Craft Staff and Forge Rod require a minimum caster level of 12th. With nine levels of Factotum, the character's caster level to qualify for these feats would be 9; hence, considering that B) is true, a Factotum/MoM/Chameleon couldn't qualify for these 2 previously mentioned feats. I recall that one of the Ioun Stones grants a +1 to caster level, but only one can be used. I've seen a good source where caster levels can be raised, but I believe that the restrictions and the importance of having such boon last a minimum of 8 to 24 hours for purposes of meeting the feat's prerequisites pretty much disqualifies the bulk of such options.
E) This is probably a general doubt, but: can spells from scrolls, wands, and staves be used to create magic items? Or only prepared spells? I reckon that if using the Chameleon spells (which last a minimum of 24 hours in mind unless expended), you'd have only a minimum of up to 6th level spells, which work for a wide range of spells. As well, given that the Chameleon can "prepare" spells from any arcane or divine spellcasting class, that means they can prepare spells from either Bard, Cleric, Druid, Paladin, Ranger, Sorcerer, Wizard, Blackguard, and any other strictly arcane or divine spellcasting class that has unique spells not currently available to the core classes (and core PrCs)
F) On that line of thought: is there a way to increase the manifester level for purposes of creating psionic items? Can powers from crystals or dorjes qualify for purposes of creating magic items? If this were true, then you'd be capable of qualifying for psionic item creation feats given the presence of Hidden Talent.
G) On the nature of polymorph spells and so forth: is there a way to, with the following abilities, extend or turn persistent such spells in order to meet racial requirements for item creation? Say, using something like Alter Self to qualify for racial exclusive items, or Polymorph, or even Polymorph Any Object. This could also apply to the Graft Flesh feat, which would expand the options.
H) Any other recommendations, aside from "stop ruining the fun of D&D with over-the-top, chimerical creations!!" and the like?
Finally, some disclaimers:
a) I ain't the kind of guy who formally introduces himself on a specific thread, so I beg of you to excuse me if this is a rather awkward way to introduce myself.
b) I'm well aware that I'm quoting some of the content. If necessary, please inform me if the included content does not violate the codes of conduct of this place (although I only make quotes and I explicitly mention the book and page where I took the information from). I'll remove the material if it offends the CoC.
In either way, thanks for watching this long post, and sorry if I made you go blind or something. It's something usual on my part. And thanks in advance on either aiding or proving me if the exercise is im/possible
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2009-05-30, 08:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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Re: Thought experiments on Haberdash and Item Creation
Factotum does have a caster level, so I don't see why it wouldn't work. And if your DM doesn't let the Chameleon caster level count, then you could take the feat Practiced Spellcaster (Complete Arcane) to increase it.
Using the Chameleon bonus feat for item creation is one of the fairly standard applications for it. Another one I'm fond of pointing out is incarnum: Take the Shape Soulmeld feat, shape a soulmeld, change the feat the next day, shape another soulmeld, and so on, until you have a meld shaped for every one of your body slots. Soulmelds remain shaped until you deliberately unshape them or until they're targeted by one of the rare effects that can force them to unshape, so you keep all of the melds even after you've traded away the feat.Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
—As You Like It, III:ii:328
Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics
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2009-05-30, 08:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
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- NYC
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2009-05-31, 04:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
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Re: Thought experiments on Haberdash and Item Creation
Originally Posted by Flickerdart
Of course, it's quite impractical for what it does (it won't scale properly, unless you do add the magic item that boosts Truespeak, and the end result is all that for a 1st level LoEM utterance, or a 2nd level using the bonus feat), but not entirely impossible. However, being this an exercise on the actual skill a Factotum/MoM/Chameleon build has on item creation, the skills become largely focused on Craft. The actual build would have less ranks on Craft skills.
Originally Posted by Chronos
On the area of the Factotum's caster level: the description says that you spend an inspiration point to cast the prepared spell as a spell-like ability, so you end up "preparing" spell-like abilities to cast once per day. The Chameleon limitations aren't DM fiats, but rather interpretations of the class itself and the wording of the item creation process.
As for the build, it's mostly semi-serious. I could work him out as an NPC or perhaps if a DM is wild enough to allow me to play it, but the only few I know either won't allow it because of the setting (Dragonlance), or because they suspect what I can actually do (and it's not even optimized, unless mixing the Thought Bottle for the XP, Fabricate/Wall of Iron for the GP, and a severe case of downtime)
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2009-05-31, 03:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2008
Re: Thought experiments on Haberdash and Item Creation
RoD pg 116
Adaptation: Changelings qualify for the PrC.
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2009-05-31, 03:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
Re: Thought experiments on Haberdash and Item Creation
Just because it's handy to know, as long as a skill's on one of your class lists, it's cap becomes HD+3.
So once you drop a level into Factotum, you can have the same skill ranks as a Truenamer (with the 1/day Factotum bonus, CL 20 Improvisation, Greater Heroism, Share Talents etc. from Chameleon). It might be useful for Truespeak spells? (if only they were any good... maybe Scramble True Position could see play once in a while).