Metamagic Sneak Attack Cheese/Stupidity [3.5, RAW]

[RS14]

If one were to argue that sneak attack accompanying e.g. Acid Splash is one of the "variable, numeric effects of a spell modified by this feat," a metamagic feat such as maximize would maximize sneak attack damage as well as the 1d3 provided by the spell.

The obvious stumbling block is that many spells list "Effect" explicitly. Yet some spells do not have this line in their block¹. Furthermore, RAW states that range, and duration are "effects based on caster level"². Clearly spells can have effects beyond those expressed in the "Effect" line.

[BobVosh]

If one were to argue that sneak attack accompanying e.g. Acid Splash is one of the "variable, numeric effects of a spell modified by this feat," a metamagic feat such as maximize would maximize sneak attack damage as well as the 1d3 provided by the spell.

Emphasis mine

It only changes the spells effects, class features aren't maximized.

[SurlySeraph]

This is a lot like when people argue that since ability damage is a kind of damage, a Shadow with Rogue levels would do +Xd6 Strength damage whenever it used Sneak Attack.

[Curmudgeon]

If one were to argue that sneak attack accompanying e.g. Acid Splash is one of the "variable, numeric effects of a spell modified by this feat," a metamagic feat such as maximize would maximize sneak attack damage as well as the 1d3 provided by the spell.

BobVosh already covered one self-answering part of your question. But you don't even need to go into the details of any particular metamagic feat. Sneak Attack isn't magic, so metamagic feats have no bearing on that class ability.

[Olo Demonsbane]

This is a lot like when people argue that since ability damage is a kind of damage, a Shadow with Rogue levels would do +Xd6 Strength damage whenever it used Sneak Attack.

Except that the rules state that this deals extra negative energy damage. Which would be usefull as a shadow, actually...

[tyckspoon]

Except that the rules state that this deals extra negative energy damage

Sure, you get something. You just don't do 1d4+ xd6 Strength damage.

[SurlySeraph]

Except that the rules state that this deals extra negative energy damage. Which would be usefull as a shadow, actually...

I know. I've seen a depressing number of people who either don't or pretend not to, though.

[Sinfire Titan]

Except that the rules state that this deals extra negative energy damage. Which would be usefull as a shadow, actually...

No it wouldn't, Shadows are immune to Sneak Attack and Str damage!

[nightwyrm]

No it wouldn't, Shadows are immune to Sneak Attack and Str damage!

He's talking about a shadow that took a level in rogue and uses sneak attack.

[Set]

On the other hand, a Feat or high level 'Assassin' PrC class ability that allowed a rogue to maximize a single Sneak Attack once per day would be pretty hot.

[Devils_Advocate]

If a maximized spell causes someone to fall off a cliff, does that maximize the falling damage?

Technically, it is an effect of the spell. The spell caused it, even if a bit indirectly.

Non-technically, don't be a jackass.

This is one of those cases where it's clear what the sensible ruling is, and the only question is whether the sensible ruling is, in a very technical sense, RAW or a house rule.

[Sinfire Titan]

He's talking about a shadow that took a level in rogue and uses sneak attack.

I interpreted it as him hitting himself for Sneak Attack damage to get Negative Energy damage to heal with, in addition to the standard use of Sneak Attack. The former doesn't work, as Undead are immune to Sneak Attack normally, and the Augment Crystal can't be put in a natural weapon. If he had Penetrating Strike or another ACF, he could make it work, but by nature he is immune to his own Sneak Attack damage.

Plus, Sneak Attacking yourself is kinda hard to do.

[Dagren]

I didn't even know you could sneak attack with spells.

[Curmudgeon]

I didn't even know you could sneak attack with spells.

Look at Complete Arcane on pages 85-86. It'll take you through weaponlike spells and how you can use them for sneak attack.

[Salt_Crow]

If one were to argue that sneak attack accompanying e.g. Acid Splash is one of the "variable, numeric effects of a spell modified by this feat," a metamagic feat such as maximize would maximize sneak attack damage as well as the 1d3 provided by the spell.

But sneak attack is NOT a variable, numeric effects of a spell! It's a class feature that simply goes along with the spell. Unless, of course, you maximised a spell that granted/increased sneak attack dice (which I'm not aware of) and even then only the dice that were granted as a part of the spell would be maximised.

So my opinion is "sneak attack doesn't work that way".

[Sinfire Titan]

But sneak attack is NOT a variable, numeric effects of a spell! It's a class feature that simply goes along with the spell. Unless, of course, you maximised a spell that granted/increased sneak attack dice (which I'm not aware of) and even then only the dice that were granted as a part of the spell would be maximised.

So my opinion is "sneak attack doesn't work that way".

Hunter's Eye, Spell Compendium.

[RS14]

Plus, Sneak Attacking yourself is kinda hard to do.

Not really; just go try to climb the nearest wall.

Non-technically, don't be a jackass.

This is one of those cases where it's clear what the sensible ruling is, and the only question is whether the sensible ruling is, in a very technical sense, RAW or a house rule.

Exactly. I should be clear that I'm not really advocating this--simply pointing it out as an interesting argument one could make. So don't take it too seriously.

[Faleldir]

By that logic, since the spell given as an example is conjuring real, nonmagical acid, that shouldn't be an "effect of the spell" either.

[Siosilvar]

By that logic, since the spell given as an example is conjuring real, nonmagical acid, that shouldn't be an "effect of the spell" either.

If it were real, nonmagical acid, it would do 1d6 damage (10d6 if you fully immersed someone).