New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 58
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Shademan's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    raiding wales!
    Gender
    Male

    Default shadowrun. 3rd or 4th edition?

    so I have always wanted to try shadowrun, but I am at loss as to which of the two said editions I should put my resources in.
    3'rd or 4'th edition?

    and why?
    Need a setting for your game? a character concept? any gaming related ideas? I make far to many to eat up myself, and therefor I am willing to share them. Free ideas! Get yer fluff here! PM me.


    The friendly neighborhood gentleman perv is always ready to help!

    on M&B:
    Quote Originally Posted by Celesyne
    oh, and looting villages is REALLY good money, if a nearby lord doesn't stop by and give you a daily dose of rape.
    http://baetzler.de/humor/meat_beings.html

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Doc Roc's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: shadowrun. 3rd or 4th edition?

    May I, as a huge fan of third edition, recommend fourth? It is, sadly, a much more enjoyable product since you can run the game with just one book. It also makes deckers fun, and riggers more fun. This is... important.
    Lagren: I took Livers Need Not Apply, only reflavoured.
    DocRoc: to?
    Lagren: So whenever Harry wisecracks, he regains HP.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: shadowrun. 3rd or 4th edition?

    Fourth, and try to get the 20th anniversary version.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Banned
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Koth
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: shadowrun. 3rd or 4th edition?

    Fourth, for the superior and accessible hacking, among other things. Magician, samurai, or socialite, I can't create a character and not give them at least a little computer skills, because the new wireless net is just so damn useful.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Shademan's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    raiding wales!
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: shadowrun. 3rd or 4th edition?

    hm, 4'th ed seems a tad bit easier to understand too...
    Need a setting for your game? a character concept? any gaming related ideas? I make far to many to eat up myself, and therefor I am willing to share them. Free ideas! Get yer fluff here! PM me.


    The friendly neighborhood gentleman perv is always ready to help!

    on M&B:
    Quote Originally Posted by Celesyne
    oh, and looting villages is REALLY good money, if a nearby lord doesn't stop by and give you a daily dose of rape.
    http://baetzler.de/humor/meat_beings.html

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NPCMook's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: shadowrun. 3rd or 4th edition?

    I too will chirp in for SR4A, it has a few tweaks to certain rules for better understanding, and also institutes a Dice pool limitation, so you avoid players with 50+ dice pools.

    The only downside to Shadowrun is players have one role, and that's it, while you can cover multiple roles I would recommend against it.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Banned
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Koth
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: shadowrun. 3rd or 4th edition?

    All skill-based systems reward specialization - dividing roles among the party - to some degree, especially at lower levels of power. If you want PCs to take on multiple roles, give the players more points to create their PC with.

    Anyway, it doesn't strike me as very difficult to cover multiple roles in SR regardless of edition. Magicians can do just about anything with the right selection of spells; the weapons expert should be a stealth expert as well; the hacker is the rigger; and so on.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    M'wakee, 'Sconsin
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: shadowrun. 3rd or 4th edition?

    Chalk up another for 4th edition. 3rd is great, and really one of the better systems I've ever encountered. However, I cannot name a single way in which the 4th edition is not superior. It's currently my favorite RPG system, and I plan on tweaking it to work for medieval-fantasy play.
    Homebrew World: Daera - high fantasy setting on a world without humans
    Quote Originally Posted by Teddy View Post
    If the world was a Hollywood movie, Overdrive would be the protagonist.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Halfling in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2009

    Default Re: shadowrun. 3rd or 4th edition?

    4th edition mechanics are vastly superior to 3rd.

    It still helps to have sourcebooks from earlier editions for background on the world you're operating in, however.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Halfling in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2009

    Default Re: shadowrun. 3rd or 4th edition?

    And let me write a short essay on one of the major reasons why 4th edition is vastly superior to 3rd: Deckers and Riggers.

    Before we begin, let me note that due to the way the rules worked, deckers and riggers were largely mutually exclusive character functions.

    In 3rd edition, you had deckers -- a "class" of character that specialized in Matrix operations. The Matrix is the SR version of the Internet, and you dive into it to get information, break into government and corporate systems to manipulate information, etc.

    This activity usually involved the group decker and the GM doing a full run of their own for an hour while everyone else wanting to play the game went off and watched a TV episode, or played a round of Munchkin or something.

    Then, when the decker was done doing his thing, the rest of the group went and did theirs while the Decker went off and played some solitaire.

    Obviously, this sucks (tm).

    You also had riggers -- a "class" of character that specialized in operating vehicles and drones. This was a character that was either completely overwhelming in power, or utterly useless. In places where vehicles and drones could contribute, the rigger basically rolled any non-rigger competition without breaking a sweat. In places where vehicles and drones cannot contribute (which can occur fairly often in this game, mind you), the rigger is utterly useless.

    Obviously, this too sucks (tm).

    In SR4, these two functions have largely been combined in the hacker or technomancer, resulting in a character that is capable in both the Matrix and the real world. Hackers can still specialize as either "deckers" or "riggers", but if you go one way or the other, you can still maintain a minimal competency level in the other.

    Also, the "hacker goes off and does his own thing" has been significantly mitigated in SR4. The mechanics are much simplified, and even though you stlil have this problem to some degree, most dives into the Matrix can be resolved in a matter of minutes with the new hacking rules.

    On top of it, even hackers with no drones can contribute in combat now, due to the fact that almost everything is wireless, and you don't have to go full-VR anymore to be competent in the matrix. You can be in a firefight using AR -- augmented reality, sort of a half-way point between VR and a standard laptop computer -- to provide over-watch capabilities, mess with enemy communications, etc.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Halfling in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2009

    Default Re: shadowrun. 3rd or 4th edition?

    In fact, the hacking issue in SR3 was so bad that we had a rule in our group:

    (1) Nobody plays a decker.
    (2) The team face is responsible for bringing a responsible decker contact to the table to who we can outsource all our decking problems.

    Then the GM just figured out what the decker was capable of doing, and we went about our business.

    Really. I loved SR3, but SR4 is just plain better.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Xuincherguixe's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Non Sequitoria
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: shadowrun. 3rd or 4th edition?

    Yeah. Pretty much everything everyone has said above.

    I've been playing since second edition, and I've noticed a gradual shift towards making the system simpler, and broader.

    4th goes a long way in bringing the various roles closer together.


    Granted, it makes no sense that there are so many easy to hack wireless systems. Of course... it doesn't make much sense that those exist now. Dumb laws, and technological ignorance can explain away that.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Rizban: You could be all, "Today's Destruction is brought to you by the color green.... I HATE GREEN!" then fly off mumbling to yourself "Seven... seven bats... mwa ha ha ha..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Everyone knows you can just parse XML with regex.
    Don't mind me. I'm just going to have some post traumatic flashbacks in the corner here and sob uncontrollably.


    Millenium Earl by Shmee

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Banned
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Koth
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: shadowrun. 3rd or 4th edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viv View Post
    In fact, the hacking issue in SR3 was so bad that we had a rule in our group:

    (1) Nobody plays a decker.
    This was the rule pretty much all groups used in Cyberpunk 2020. Atrocious system, net runs that take an hour or two during which nobody else can do anything... gah!

    Then again, in that game there was never any reason, ever, to not play a Solo. Combat Sense was just too stupidly good. (Unless, of course, you had the option to play a Powered Armor Jock and actually have Powered Armor.)

    Edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by Xuincherguixe View Post
    Granted, it makes no sense that there are so many easy to hack wireless systems. Of course... it doesn't make much sense that those exist now. Dumb laws, and technological ignorance can explain away that.
    Field research in Helsinki, the capital city of Finland, just recently found that about 50% of wireless networks are unhidden (possibly unsecured; the news report was crap). And people leave their Bluetooth open all the time, with hilarious results.

    The SR4 book (and the supplements even more so) does mention that anyone with sense will usually have their gear switched offline, or else slaved or wired to their commlink, and their commlink hidden. Finding a specific hidden commlink does take some effort, and then you'll have to crack it open. (Everyone has some security program in there, and smart people use Encrypt, Bomb, etc. on top of it.)

    So professionals and runners will be hidden (except in areas where custom, security, or law requires broadcasting, where they'll be visible but closed and protected instead, requiring active, potentially detectable and traceable hacking). It's largely an electronic surveillance thing: corps and cops want everyone broadcasting so they can be identified, analyzed, and tracked. This, of course, is why you get a lot of disposable commlinks that you only use for a week or so...

    GMs just have to give this stuff some thought to make it realistic; the system is pretty drat solid in this respect.

    I think assuming anyone except kids, street punks, and the technologically illiterate ( = majority of population) has all their gear slaved to their commlink (or offline) is the way to go. There are advantages to linking to your commlink; getting gun aiming data, ammo, etc. in your AR, tracking fields of fire in AR, etc. Requiring hackers to find and then hack into enemy commlinks in order to mess with their gear and comm seems fair to me, and is just what I'd expect to have to do as a hacker player.
    Last edited by Tsotha-lanti; 2009-05-31 at 12:11 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Swordguy's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Covington, KY
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: shadowrun. 3rd or 4th edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viv View Post
    In fact, the hacking issue in SR3 was so bad that we had a rule in our group:

    (1) Nobody plays a decker.
    (2) The team face is responsible for bringing a responsible decker contact to the table to who we can outsource all our decking problems.

    Then the GM just figured out what the decker was capable of doing, and we went about our business.

    Really. I loved SR3, but SR4 is just plain better.
    With the house rule above, SR3 is a workable game. Again, we've got something similar...the only decker allowed is a "combat decker" that's primarily functions as an on-site decker, not the batman-esque information junkie most people play.

    The big draw for SR3 is the atmosphere. The first 3 editions of SR were heavy into "true cyberpunk", ideally focusing on gritty, humanesque drama and the nascent loss of humanity required to compete in the mega-corp dominated world. Not a mage? Then you almost certainly NEED essence loss to contribute? Technology and the soul are mutually exclusive, and in a high-tech world, not much soul is left. Even if you just have a datajack...you've got to have a hole drilled in your skull to get it. Will Gibson and Blade Runner are the primary sources. It's all very "future of the 1980's".

    If you like that atmosphere, go with SR3 (plus, getting sourcebooks for SR3 is really cheap and easy these days).

    The new edition is a sci-fi game of the modern era, a "post-cyberpunk" system. We've seen that technology isn't inherently harmful to the human condition, and the integration of machine and flesh can theoretically be considered the next logical stage of human evolution (the Technomancer really exemplifies this idea). This is where SR4 excels. It's a much glitzier world, where the megacorps, while massive and powerful, aren't quite as oppressive, and the shadows in the alley's aren't so dark. The whole atmosphere has lightened up considerably. The primary source is really the anime Ghost in the Shell.

    I don't especially like the SR4 mechanics (and hate their character-creation system - the priority system, along with handfuls of dice, is one of the main hallmarks of SR), and so I can't honestly say go play it. I'm too much of a fan of the earlier noir atmosphere, and the SR3 system really supports this well, while the SR4 system supports high-power, over-the-top/Rule of Cool play (and very well, may I add). What I will say is that, hsould you decide on SR3, you should unabashedly steal from SR4 for concepts, and translate them over to SR3. Wireless Matrix? Not a difficult switch, and it completely changes the "Decker issue".

    (Drone Riggers who sit in a van a mile from the action are a problem regardless of system, and there's no good "1 size fits all solution" that leaves both players and GM happy.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dervag
    Quote Originally Posted by kpenguin
    Thus, knowing none of us are Sun Tzu or Napoleon or Julius Caesar...
    No, but Swordguy appears to have studied people who are. And took notes.
    "I'd complain about killing catgirls, but they're dead already. You killed them with your 685 quadrillion damage." - Mikeejimbo, in reference to this

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Banned
     
    Satyr's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fishtown, Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: shadowrun. 3rd or 4th edition?

    Always willing to represent the minority, opinion, I found that 4th edition of Shadowrun was a large step back. I admit, I haven't played it much, but I tested it. I really wanted to like it, because there were many problems with its progenitor. Some of them were solved, others weren't and for the worst part, some completely new and unecessary problems occured as well, but the major one is, that the 4th edition completely messed up the core mechanism of the game.
    Exchanging an interesting and fun game system with a mediocre NWoD clone of a system is a worse idea than drilling a whole in a head to put electrodes on your brain's pleasre centres to live in orgasmotropia until you starve. Fixed Target Numbers are a stupid idea, reducing the game's flexibility and depth for the sake of a false simplicity. The original 3rd edition rules had one mechanism to describe the dificulty of a task - the Target number. This ripoff system of White Wolf suddenly needs two - pool penalties and thresholds. Now, you do not only have a system with effectively less depth but more compleyity. Thanks for nothing.

    I found it extremely convoluted, unnecessary complex in some parts (like the mess the character creation is, with these odd numbers in the point buy...), while others, like the Matrix, where dumbed down to the extreme. This is mostly annoying, like the unnecessary renaming of older elements. This seemed to me like a willing try to chum up with a potential new audience while not carring about the ones who bought and played the older editions. Some of the more unique fluff - you know, the stuff that makes a system actually interesting - was lead to a shiny wal and got a blindfold and a cigarette, to have some bland genericness instead.

    Shadowrun 4 relates to Shadowrun like the NWoD to its corresponding original version: there are some - obviously intended - paralells and similarities, and much too many changes, often to the worse.
    It may be that 4th edition run smoother if you learn the system in more detail than I did, but it is also the blander system, by far.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2008

    Default Re: shadowrun. 3rd or 4th edition?

    OP, i find 4th edition shadowrun to work well. It took out 3rd edition's "I roll 54 dice to shoot gun". Point buy seems weird, but trust me, Priority system made it impossible to make characters in less than 1 session. As for people's comments on how 4th edition shadowrun is not gritty, and the megacorps aren't evil, go read the Emergence campaign setting. The **** they do to Technomancers is pretty terrible.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Crow's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: shadowrun. 3rd or 4th edition?

    I'm for 3rd edition. 4th edition killed the atmosmosphere which made it worthwhile to play the game. I like my shadowrun to be good ol' fantasy-punk, not ghost in the shell.
    Avatar by Aedilred

    GitP Blood Bowl Manager Cup Record
    Styx Rivermen, Feets Reloaded, and Selene's Seductive Strut
    Record: 42-17-13
    3-time Division Champ, Cup Champion

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Halfling in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2009

    Default Re: shadowrun. 3rd or 4th edition?

    The grittiness of 4th edition, or lack thereof, is a GM implementation issue. If you don't think SR4 is dark enough, that's something that is trivially solved. It is not a good reason to take issue with it, IMO. In fact, it's one of the reasons I gave a nod to SR3 sourcebooks, which IMO, represent some of the best damn world creation around.

    The issue of target numbers versus pool penalties and thresholds -- well, heh.

    First, the skill system in SR4 is simpler. There is no damn good reason for a person to be a ninja with a sword, but basically incompetent with a knife -- and that happened in SR3. Likewise, there is no good reason to be a crack shot with a rifle, and unable to hit the broad side of a barn with a pistol -- again, something that happened with SR3. This sort of stupidity is far less likely to occur in SR4.

    Additionally, if you think that pool penalties and thresholds are intractable and silly, you really haven't looked at the mathematical properties of the target number system very carefully.

    +3TN has totally different meanings depending on where you start on the scale. If you start out at TN3, +3TN just means your 2/3 chance turned to 1/6. If you start out at 6, then your 1/6 chance turned to 1/12. If you start at 9, your 1/12 chance just turned into a 1/36.

    Or, how about +1TN? If you started out at TN5, your 1/3 chance turned to 1/6. But if you started out at TN6, +1TN makes no difference at all, because if you roll a six, you will always roll at least a seven.

    The mathematical properties of the target number system were just absurd, and to call it the less complex system is just silly.
    Last edited by Viv; 2009-06-01 at 12:11 AM.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Doc Roc's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: shadowrun. 3rd or 4th edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viv View Post
    The grittiness of 4th edition, or lack thereof, is a GM implementation issue. If you don't think SR4 is dark enough, that's something that is trivially solved. It is not a good reason to take issue with it, IMO. In fact, it's one of the reasons I gave a nod to SR3 sourcebooks, which IMO, represent some of the best damn world creation around.

    [...]

    The mathematical properties of the target number system were just absurd, and to call it the less complex system is just silly.
    I spent a tremendous amount of time with 3rd edition and fourth edition as well as digging around in their mathematical guts, and I have to agree on both points. SR4 is mechanically more viable than SR3. The rest is an issue with your particular simulation environment and may indicate that your GM-Co. GMing module needs a refurb.
    Last edited by Doc Roc; 2009-06-01 at 01:38 AM.
    Lagren: I took Livers Need Not Apply, only reflavoured.
    DocRoc: to?
    Lagren: So whenever Harry wisecracks, he regains HP.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Swordguy's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Covington, KY
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: shadowrun. 3rd or 4th edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viv View Post
    Or, how about +1TN? If you started out at TN5, your 1/3 chance turned to 1/6. But if you started out at TN6, +1TN makes no difference at all, because if you roll a six, you will always roll at least a seven.

    The mathematical properties of the target number system were just absurd, and to call it the less complex system is just silly.
    Yeah, that was a facepalm 20 years ago, and it's a facepalm moment now. The easy houserule (suggested, but never officially endorsed) was to say that TN 7 never exists. Anything that bumps a TN to 7 actually bumps it to 8. Then you have the issue of a TN 5+2 (difficulty) being mathematically the same as a TN 5+3 (difficulty). Unfortunately, there's no solution with exploding dice systems that fixes this. Even L5R has it happen when you've got a TN that's 1 above the maximum exploding die value. It's just an unavoidable quirk of the system.

    For reference, our houserule was that, in the case of a TN 7/13/19/etc, a "1" result on the rerolled die had to be rolled one more time. High, it made it; low, it didn't. It's not mathematically perfect, but it's at least a little better for those who twitch at the system as written.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dervag
    Quote Originally Posted by kpenguin
    Thus, knowing none of us are Sun Tzu or Napoleon or Julius Caesar...
    No, but Swordguy appears to have studied people who are. And took notes.
    "I'd complain about killing catgirls, but they're dead already. You killed them with your 685 quadrillion damage." - Mikeejimbo, in reference to this

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Banned
     
    Satyr's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fishtown, Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: shadowrun. 3rd or 4th edition?

    I didn't claim that the game became less gritty (or, actually I do, but that happened much earlier, with the Jumping the Shark Olympic Games that was Year of the Comet). I just said that it was blander and that several of the elements that made Shadowrun unique and interesting, the whole grown background - was effectively discontinued and negated.

    If you complain about a system, please be sure that you understand it beforehand before you make claims like

    There is no damn good reason for a person to be a ninja with a sword, but basically incompetent with a knife -- and that happened in SR3.
    which are just plain wrong. Both knives and swords are bladed weapons, and therefore use the absolute same skill. And it's not like that you cannot derrive one skill from the other.

    Anything that bumps a TN to 7 actually bumps it to 8.
    I am pretty sure that this was an official rule.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DwarfBarbarianGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Lincoln
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: shadowrun. 3rd or 4th edition?

    My recommendation as someone who played 4e SR only- Don't let the numbers powergamer review the book ahead of time. I don't recall exactly how, but he cranked his Manipulation Spellcasting pool into the low 40's and then spammed Mob Control. Only dedicated counterspellers could reduce his success rate lower than 90%.

    When we made him come up with a new character, he produced a troll who could only be damaged by anti-vehicle rockets, and that's only if he was counted as wearing enough armor to be counted a vehicle. And he was a hacker.

    My horror story aside, I like the system and the game. I would recommend lowering the point buy just a touch though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Terraneaux View Post
    Adventurers. Murderous hobos with near-deific power who are both merciless and incredibly competent at personal combat.
    Spoiler
    Show

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Norway
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: shadowrun. 3rd or 4th edition?

    Well, since I only need a system to run a post-apoc homebrew setting in, I don't really care about the grittiness. I think Shadowrun 4th ed will perform just fine for that task
    check out my metal band: http://www.facebook.com/Dreamslain

    Wash: "Sweetie, we're crooks. If everything were right, we'd be in jail."

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Lost Demiurge's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2008

    Default Re: shadowrun. 3rd or 4th edition?

    Well, the folks here have raised every point that I'd use to recommend 4th, so yeah, go with that one.

    SR3 wasn't a bad system, but it kind of assumed familiarity with the rules. It wasn't as newbie-friendly as SR4, or as easy to get into.

    I will chip in with the fact that I've been running SR4 off and on for a couple of years, and it's remarkably easy to work with, on the GM side of things.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Jack_Banzai's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Seattle

    Default Re: shadowrun. 3rd or 4th edition?

    I've played every iteration of Shadowrun (including the oft-maligned DMZ), so allow me to present the following suggestion:

    d20 Modern, using the d20 Future, d20 Future Tech, and d20 Cyberscape books, while lifting the Magic rules from Monte Cook's d20 World of Darkness game make for a very, very satisfying d20 Shadowrun using the Shadowrun 3rd sourcebooks and setting. Very satisfying, much faster than rolling endless d6s, and best of all, very easy for anyone familiar with d20 to learn.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Aug 2008

    Default Re: shadowrun. 3rd or 4th edition?

    Long time Shadowrun GM here.

    I play a mishmash combination of 2nd and 3rd editions, in an effort to streamline play, minimize decker/rigger time sinks, and maintain a good game pace. Over the decade or so I have run the system, I would like to think I have gotten it fairly fine-tuned.

    Because of that, I will whole-heartedly second the above recomendations for using 4th edition. While I do agree that the flavor is very different in the default game, the mechanics are a lot easier to use and work much better out-of-the-box then previous editions. Nostolgia and hard-headedness have kept me from changing my game over, primarily because I disregard the canon past like 2057 and don't care for the post-cyberpunk flavor of 4th.

    But since flavor is largely the perogative of the GM, and a single book containing all the relevant rules, which actually work and allow you to run a game without a binder full of house rules and fiat, 4th edition is a better system to use.

    I would recomend that if you want to run a game set in the Shadowrun setting that you invest some time and effort in acquiring and reading some of the vast amount of non-rule-based sourcebooks published for SR 2 and 3. There is a ton of great material in there that can easily be integrated into a Shadowrun game, regardless of rule set.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Goblin

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Aachen Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: shadowrun. 3rd or 4th edition?

    Don't mix it with d20.
    The skill system in SR is far better than d20.

    I would also recomend the 4th edition rules, they fixed some bugs in the old rules. For the world building part, run with the 3rd edition books.
    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.

    Liked Redcloak before it was cool.

    Two sides of the sword
    You may think it's nothing but agony
    When you feel the hate
    It is the hand that carries the blade


    (I'm not a nativ speaker so if you find a mispelled word just keep it ;) )

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Halfling in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2009

    Default Re: shadowrun. 3rd or 4th edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Satyr View Post
    f you complain about a system, please be sure that you understand it beforehand before you make claims like (...)

    which are just plain wrong. Both knives and swords are bladed weapons, and therefore use the absolute same skill. And it's not like that you cannot derrive one skill from the other.
    For what it's worth, I'm quite familiar with the system. As far as this goes, you're right -- simple brain fart on my part.

    But, you're missing the forest for the trees friend:

    Firearms that are separate skills:
    Rifles
    Shotguns
    Submachine Guns
    Pistols
    Assault Rifles

    Now, like I said, in SR3, you could be a crack shot with Rifles, but couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with a pistol.

    Melee that are separate skills:
    Clubs
    Edged Weapons
    Unarmed Combat
    Polearms/Staffs

    Now, my point stands, despite my poor choice of specific weapon examples. You could be the world's best swordsman, but completely, utterly incompetent with say, a billy club.

    This is nonsense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Satyr View Post
    I am pretty sure that this was an official rule.
    I don't think so. If you read the Dumpshock forums, abuse of this was always pretty standard optimization. If I'm wrong, please cite.
    Last edited by Viv; 2009-06-01 at 10:30 AM.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Titan in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    On Paper
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: shadowrun. 3rd or 4th edition?

    Question. Where did things get less gritty in 4e? The characters are still slum-dwelling mercenaries working for soulless monolithic megacorps. The tech got a bit fancier, but otherwise things seemed pretty similar.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsurion View Post
    I don't know if you've noticed, but pretty much everything BRC posts is full of awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by chiasaur11 View Post
    So, Astronaut, War Hero, or hideous Mantis Man, hop to it! The future of humanity is in your capable hands and or terrifying organic scythes.
    My Homebrew:Synchronized Swordsmen,Dual Daggers,The Doctor,The Preacher,The Brawler
    [/Center]

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Halfling in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2009

    Default Re: shadowrun. 3rd or 4th edition?

    And all that said, I don't hate the SR3 ruleset. I enjoy playing with it very much.

    It's just that the SR3 rule set:
    (1) Suffers from TN silliness, like I mentioned.
    (2) Suffers from skill silliness, like I mentioned.
    (3) Suffers from decker/rigger problems, like I mentioned.
    (4) And finally, the rule books are in my experience, poorly organized. It was not uncommon for my friends and I to have to look at 2-3 pages in separate sections in the core rulebook to find all the relevant rules on a situation; and worse, if you were bringing in other books, you'd have to do the same within them, also.

    SR4 is just a cleaner implementation overall. It was designed with the lessons learned from SR3 in mind. It's a radical departure mechanically, and yes, it does have its own problems.

    But it's simpler to learn, simpler to apply to real game situations, and solves the most egregious broken parts of previous editions of SR.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •