[3.5] Optimizing for HP

[Human Paragon 3]

I hate going down in combat. Basically nothing makes you feel like more of a useless lump or drag on party resources than taking a couple hits and finding yourself face down in the muck, praying for the party cleric to stop doing whatever useful thing he's doing and give you some healing.

To that end, I want a character optamized for HP. Good AC and Saves are a plus, too.

For starters, I was thinking a Dwarf, but another race with a con bonus would be fine too, if you guys can come up with one. A class with a good HD is obvious, preferably a d12. Since my feats are going to go towards defense, not offense, the class needs to have powerful enough class features so that my feat choice doesn't make a difference. This, to me, says War Blade.

So my dwarven war blade will take improved toughness... maybe a regular toughness at least at first. Then... what?

Here are some other ideas I had:

Hidden Talent (for Vigor)
Heavy Armor Prof (but maybe a fighter dip would be better?)
Maybe some of the PHBII feats that boost shield bonus to ac, stuff like that.

For manuevers, I would focus on the most punishing ones, Stone Dragon and Iron Heart primarily with some Diamond Mind thrown in for the save-boosting manuevers.

Looking for more ideas and other ways to take advantage of a high constitution. thanks!

[ghost_warlock]

Well, if you aren't fixated on the warblade, a fun class that uses Con as its primary attribute is the totemist from Magic of Incarnum. Bonus points for going with a Con/Cha build and multiclassing as a binder (Tome of Magic). Between soulmelds and bound vestiges you should have all sorts of nifty tricks to keep yourself alive.

[valadil]

The problem with optimizing for HP is that you'll be inadequate elsewhere. If you aren't threatening to the enemies, they'll have no reason to hit you and your massive chunk of hit points just won't matter. Putting a high stat into con is fine (I usually go with my second highest stat). Taking improved toughness is too. Beyond that and you're focusing too much into not dying. Oh yeah, you can definitely afford to pick up a con boosting item too. That's always a good idea.

At any rate I think you should take a look at the Deepwarden prestige class. It's dwarf only. It gets d12 HP. And best of all, it lets you use con instead of dex for your AC.

[Dogmantra]

You could actually be a gnome. They have a CON bonus, and they're small, so they're going to be a little harder to hit. Unfortunately, you get a penalty to STR.

[Gorbash]

First of all, it's not optamization it's optimization... Second, it's Warblade, not war blade.

Anyways, skip Toughness, just go for the Improved version. If your DM allows Traits from UA, take Slow (+1 HP/lvl, movement speed halved). Might be worth checking Dwarf Paragon class which, besides d12 HD and full BAB, gives you an additional +2 racial bonus on Con.

[Faleldir]

Crusaders are a better tank class. They have d10 hit dice, but they can heal themselves very easily. As for the race, if you're starting at level 1 and flaws are allowed, I suggest a Warforged with Adamantine Body and Thick-Skinned.

[Mavian]

Dragonborn Mongrelfolk Warblade

Your not that pretty, but you've got a ton of Hp

[Flickerdart]

Knights get d12 as well, don't they? Plus all sorts of nifty tanking tricks.

[Human Paragon 3]

I was thinking toughness at level 1 then re-train to improved toughness at level 4 when the HP provide is actually better than toughness. At level 1, I think toughness is actually pretty useful.

As for not being threatening, a Warblade is always threatening because of manuevers like elder mountain hammer and tombstone strike.

Knight is good, but it's class features aren't as strong as manuevers IMO. My goal isn't to stand there and take damage or force enemies to attack me. It's to remain on my feet as long as possible, contributing to combat in any way I can.

I'll take a look at totemist and dwarf paragon, those sound interesting. What book is deep warden in?

Also where can I find dragon born? Do they have a level adjustment?

[sonofzeal]

Dragonborn Mongrelfolk Warblade

Your not that pretty, but you've got a ton of Hp

That's just about what I was going to suggest. I'd say that Crusaders effectively have more hitpoints than Warblades, because of their various recovery mechanisms. They're also more resistant to various magical effects, if I remember correctly.

Binder could be another choice. They get that one save-boosting pact augmentation, and if it stacks between multiple vistages then you can get pretty crazy saves on top of a Con-based class and whatever you want to pick up from the actual vistages.

[Human Paragon 3]

That's just about what I was going to suggest. I'd say that Crusaders effectively have more hitpoints than Warblades, because of their various recovery mechanisms. They're also more resistant to various magical effects, if I remember correctly.

Binder could be another choice. They get that one save-boosting pact augmentation, and if it stacks between multiple vistages then you can get pretty crazy saves on top of a Con-based class and whatever you want to pick up from the actual vistages.

Could I get that stuff via feats only, as in, play a crusader and take the bind vestige feats?

[Olo Demonsbane]

Tack on Mineral Warrior and...Lloth touched, was it? to get lots and lots of constitution.

[7th lvl scrub]

If you want even more of a con bonus go start with the Dwarf base race and become a Dragonborn of Bahamut. It gives you a +2 to con and -2 to dex in addition to what you already have. Its in the Races of the Dragon.

[sonofzeal]

Could I get that stuff via feats only, as in, play a crusader and take the bind vestige feats?

You can bind vistages (sort of) via feats, but the crazy save boosts are a Binder class feature. Sorry.

[RTGoodman]

Dragonborn Mongrelfolk Warblade

Your not that pretty, but you've got a ton of Hp

This.


I think you could go Mineral Warrior Dragonborn of Bahamut Mongrelfolk for +10 Con with only +1 LA that you can buy off.

After that, focus on Str (since you'll be hitting things) and maybe a smattering of Int. Play a Warblade, for the d12 HD and martial maneuvers, and take every one of those maneuvers that lets you use a Concentration check in place of a save or whatever.

By 5th level, assuming you bought off the LA, that's 83 HP (if you started with 18 Con). You could boost that by 5 via Improved Toughness, or by 5 again if you grab a +2 Con item. And your Concentration check is already 1d20 + 17, plus any other things you have to add to it (Skill Focus or whatever).

[Talic]

Why go HP?

Elan Psywar.

1) Enhanced Resilience.
1 Psywar) Psionic Talent
Flaw) Psionic Talent
Flaw) Psionic Talent
2) Psionic Talent
3) Shape Soulmeld: Rageclaws

Now. +14 Power points from Feats.
+3, we'll say, from Wis
+2 from Class

19 PP. As an immediate action, you can spend power points to negate damage. Every power point negates 4 points of damage.

Rageclaws lets you go to -9 hp and still act.

so that, even if you roll a 1 for every HD, and only have a +1 Con modifier, is, at level 3...

Effectively 91 hp.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

This.


I think you could go Mineral Warrior Dragonborn of Bahamut Mongrelfolk for +10 Con with only +1 LA that you can buy off.

After that, focus on Str (since you'll be hitting things) and maybe a smattering of Int. Play a Warblade, for the d12 HD and martial maneuvers, and take every one of those maneuvers that lets you use a Concentration check in place of a save or whatever.

By 5th level, assuming you bought off the LA, that's 83 HP (if you started with 18 Con). You could boost that by 5 via Improved Toughness, or by 5 again if you grab a +2 Con item. And your Concentration check is already 1d20 + 17, plus any other things you have to add to it (Skill Focus or whatever).

If you're going to use those templates, just be sure you take them in the right order. Mongrelfolk Dragonborn first, then gain Mineral Warrior afterward but before 6th level. You lose all the Mongrelfolk racial traits except your ability score adjustments and movement modes when you gain Dragonborn, but you don't lose any Mineral Warrior traits because it's gained afterward. Take the Wings aspect of Dragonborn, as long as you gain Mineral Warrior before 6th level you'll still gain and keep your fly speed. Having DR 8/Adamantine from Mineral Warrior is also good, and you can use the feat Thick-Skinned in Savage Species multiple times to increase it by 2 each time, up to double what it originally was.

Crusader is indeed a much tankier choice than Warblade. You'll be able to heal yourself and others as you keep attacking, use the feat Stone Power to gain temporary HP, and when you do take damage your delayed damage pool will stall it for a round. For example, say you use Stone Power for 10 temporary HP, then get hit for 40 points. Your DR from Mineral Warrior reduces it to 32, ten gets delayed, ten is taken from temporary HP, and you only take 12 points of damage. On your next turn, you use Stone Power again and attack, healing two points for Martial Spirit, and gain another 10 temporary HP. Your ten delayed damage takes off that temporary HP and you don't take any more damage, and you're only down by 10 HP from a 40 HP attack. As another example, say you get full-attacked by a ten headed hydra. Each bite does 1d10+5 damage, so let's assume each bite rolled a different damage value, so ten attacks at 6-15 damage. The first three, 6, 7, and 8, don't get through your DR and are negated. The last seven each get reduced by eight, for 28 damage total. Ten of it gets delayed, and you've got ten temporary HP from Stone Power, so you only take eight points of damage. On your turn you attack and use Stone Power, Martial Spirit heals you for 2, and you gain ten more temporary HP to absorb your delayed damage. You're only down by 6 HP, after a full attack that would have dealt 120 damage to anyone else.

[Shpadoinkle]

Dwarf crusader focusing in Devoted Spirit and Stone Dragon. Devoted Spirit lets you heal yourself (or anyone else close enough) with a few stances and strikes, and Stone Dragon has stances and strikes that grant DR. If you can get the enemies into a chokepoint so no more than two or three can attack you at once, you're extraordinarily durable. Obviously this is best if you're fighting underground or in close quarters, like a castle or something.

The Stone Power feat also lets you take a penalty to your to-hit when you use a Stone Dragon strike or just a normal attack, and gain twice that number in temporary HP until the start of your next round. Remember that temporary HP are lost first, before 'real' HP.

Deepstone Sentinal (also in ToB) has an ability it gets at level 4, Dragon's Tooth, that will let you create chokepoints, if you have a few rounds to prepare, and the capstone ability of the class, Awaken the Stone Dragon, is a swift action that only affects enemies, and makes them make a reflex save or take 12d6 damage and fall prone. The downside is that the earliest you can enter the class is level 11.

[Sinfire Titan]

The Incarnate can get the highest HP total in the game (short of an optimized Barbarian focused on Con). Improved Toughness+Vitality Belt (with 8 Essentia)+Dragonborn Mongrelfolk with maxed-out Con+Shape Soulmeld (Totem Avatar)= 312 HP with plenty of room for other defenses. SR, Good Aligned, and the right soulmelds means you would be nigh unkillable by anything short of a full caster. Max out UMD too, so you can contribute to encounters instead of just being a walking wall.

[snoopy13a]

Why not just go with the simple solution and play a barbarian? It just seems like a class that begs to be tried at least once.

[aje8]

Why not just go with the simple solution and play a barbarian? It just seems like a class that begs to be tried at least once.

Perhaps because Maunvers>Rage in essentially all situations? Though I would reccomend a dip in Lion-Totem Barbarian for the much coveted pounce.

+1 on the Dragonborn Mineral Warrior Mongrel Folk Crusader.

[only1doug]

Why not just go with the simple solution and play a barbarian? It just seems like a class that begs to be tried at least once.

Because he wants to get healed less often, Barbarians have awful AC for a melee class, resulting in them being hit much more often, so yes they have more HP, but they also cycle through them more often.