DDI Exclusives -4e-

[Mauril Everleaf]

So I was just reading the newest Ampersand in Dragon magazine and this caught my attention:

This month, we kick off a new rollout of exclusive material for the Dungeons & Dragons game that you can only get as a D&D Insider subscriber. This exclusive material won't appear in any core rulebooks or supplements, but it will be totally official and ready to use if you're a D&D Insider subscriber. We start out with the revenant, a new player character race that I predict is going to be all the rage. The revenant is an undead creature who could have been of any other race in life but returns after death as a revenant with a new life and a new purpose. With a connection to the Raven Queen, vague memories of past lives, and some cool undead powers, the revenant provides great opportunities for roleplaying and new approaches to character death … because for the revenant, death is only the beginning! Look for the revenant player character race on June 15, exclusively available to D&D Insiders.

It doesn't end there, however. We have more exclusive content on the way, including a new character class available only to D&D Insiders. Wait for it … coming in September … the original class designed for player characters who wanted to embrace the dark side of being a hero … get ready for the assassin! Mike Mearls is putting the finishing touches on the design of this exciting new class (and the new power source it is associated with) even as I type this, and then it will go through the usual development and editing cycle before it shows up for every D&D Insider to use.

A race and a class, the revenant and the assassin. Exclusive material for your D&D game, available only to D&D Insider subscribers. And there's more to come! Watch this space and our usual news items and editorials for additional exclusive material announcements later this summer.

Now, I am all for Dragon and Dungeon publishing things that are not republished in "core" books. And I am very fine with WotC releasing extra content to their customers who pay extra for the privelage. But a class and a race that are exclusive to DDI subscribers just seems wrong to me. A feat or a class feature is one thing, as they are minor tweaks to a character, but an entire class and/or an entire race is a major tweak to a character.

Am I the only one who is a little bothered by this? I am loving 4e and DDI has been an excellent purchase, but this just doesn't sit well with me.

[Hal]

On a strictly monetary level, it's not so bad.

Let's say you paid retail price for the PHB, $35. There's eight each of races and classes in that book, coming out to around $2.19 each.

If you subscribe to just once month of DDI, for the purpose of getting a singular race/class, they come out to ~$4 each ($8/month, one race and one class). So, that's running you about double the price. If all you're concerned with is the race and class, that's not good. If you're willing to take into account all the other material you get, it's a much better deal.

If it's more the principle that's bothering you . . . I'm having trouble coming up with precedents. Pay-per-view wrestling events?

[Yuki Akuma]

If a player wants to use either of those options with a DM who doesn't have DDI... well, the player is going to have to give him the info, or miss out.

The information will be common knowledge in a few months. Nothing to worry about.

[Tsotha-lanti]

So publishing classes and races in non-core sources you must pay for is wrong?

Riiiiight.

[Kurald Galain]

I find the problem here is that legally speaking, you must keep a DDI subscription for as long as you want playing the character. Also, in the (unlikely) event that WOTC goes bankrupt or stops doing DDI, you can no longer use the character.

Of course, in practice it doesn't work that way because people will write down the necessary stuff on their character sheet anyway; but putting races in DDI only suffers from exactly those reasons why people hate DRM so much.

[potatocubed]

This exclusive material won't appear in any core rulebooks or supplements, but it will be totally official and ready to use if you're a D&D Insider subscriber.

...unless your GM is not a subscriber, in which case you're probably SOL.

I mean, seriously... if a player came to your game and tried to tell you he was using powers he'd got from a source you couldn't see, would you let it slide? I sure as hell wouldn't.

[Yuki Akuma]

...unless your GM is not a subscriber, in which case you're probably SOL.

I mean, seriously... if a player came to your game and tried to tell you he was using powers he'd got from a source you couldn't see, would you let it slide? I sure as hell wouldn't.

If he printed it off and gave me a copy? Sure.

[Kurald Galain]

If he printed it off and gave me a copy? Sure.

While as a DM, I would have no problem with allowing the class in this way, I do believe that printing it and giving me a copy violates the DDI license.

[Swordguy]

While as a DM, I would have no problem with allowing the class in this way, I do believe that printing it and giving me a copy violates the DDI license.

It does indeed - illegally distributing copyrighted material*. Now, granted, the WotC police aren't likely to come to your house and haul you away in chains for it, but it's extremely frustrating to be placed in a position where you have to break the law, or be forced to buy a service so your players (not even you) can use the service.

Frankly, the easiest solution for a DM who doesn't want to shell out for DDI (and doesn't want to break the law) is simply to ban DDI material wholesale, and I can certainly see people going that route.


*Under Fair Use, the player CAN print out the material, as long as it's a single copy for his/her own use, doesn't claim credit for it, and doesn't profit off of it. It's the moment he shows it to anyone else it becomes illegal (like recording an NFL game and showing it to your friends). This all assumes, of course, that the license agreement you sign doesn't include a clause where you voluntarily negate Fair Use.

[Tengu_temp]

Tricks like that only ensure me in my belief that there is nothing morally wrong in my alternate way of obtaining DND materials.

[kjones]

So publishing classes and races in non-core sources you must pay for is wrong?

Riiiiight.

The difference between releasing new stuff in a sourcebook and releasing new stuff on DDI is that you can show the sourcebook to your DM. Legally, I don't think you're allowed access to DDI material unless you're a subscriber.

Oblig. link to The Right to Read.

[ghost_warlock]

I read the article and mostly thought "meh." Neither the exclusive race nor class interest me much so I probably won't even tell my players about them.

This, however, caught my attention:

In July, the psion player character class debuts, complete and fully loaded in the D&D Character Builder so you can dive right in and start making psion characters for your next game session.

For me, how they handle this will make or break 4e.

Remember the last major WotC psionic supplement we saw for 3e?

[Optimystik]

Remember the last major WotC psionic supplement we saw for 3e?

You mean Complete Psionic? That had some nice stuff, like Erudite, Lurk and Zerth Cenobite. They even made Soulknife useful (by turning it into Soulbow).

[shadzar]

...unless your GM is not a subscriber, in which case you're probably SOL.

I mean, seriously... if a player came to your game and tried to tell you he was using powers he'd got from a source you couldn't see, would you let it slide? I sure as hell wouldn't.

No. One of the big problems with 4th edition philosophy is the "everything is core" = "everything is always allowed".

They tried to get rid of the idea of supplements and at one point even tried to say, and still imply, that a DM shouldn't say no to anything.

That is a failing of any game where the "judge" of the game cannot disallow things.

What makes it worse is like you say that people will now NEED a subscription to DDI, since all other material would have been later published in a book for people to buy if they want.

With "magazine"-only material it was the least likely to be allowed in many places wherein the DM and other people did not have access to that material due to being out of print. This will happen to DDI soon when they can figure out how to prevent you form getting issues of Dragon or Dungeon that you didn't pay for that month you were subscribed.

Crunch is the last thing you can have as an online-subscription service unless you want to see it not, and if rarely used.

Also as was mentioned you only have legal rights to use it under the EULA for as long as you are a subscribed since you were not given a physical product.

Also the material should be banned from the RPGA as RPGA is about fair advantage to every player, not just for DDI subscribers to play in an exclusive club.

The action of the people behind 4th edition are contradicting themselves at every turn.

They will have to make this material free for every person at RPGA events with printed out copies in order for it to be allowed there in a level and fair playing field for the players, and then that throws out the idea of being paid for, or even DDI exclusive material....

Any DM still has the right to ban any material from their game. Even if everything is balanced a DM may not want warforged in their game so they aren't allowed. It goes for true core, and supplemental material alike for ANY and ALL DM/GM run games.

I have no idea what they are thinking with this other than to contradict themselves more and more and lose sight of their goals and focus on what they were trying to accomplish in the first place.

[BlckDv]

Sorry, not buying the outrage here. One of the most popular selling points for The Dragon (with the definite article) way back in time was the introduction of all new material... especially classes, that were not in the books. In other words, content that you had to pay a subscription fee to get.

Cavalier, Paladin, Anti-paladin (ne Blackguard)... all of these and many many more first entered the D&D family via a magazine article. Then, as now, if you had a subscription and your DM didn't... you'd have to find some way to let him have the info or just not use it. And back in the late 1970's and early 1980's, don't tell me that most D&D players had a copy machine or hand scanner they had easy and free access to. They would either pay up to get the DM a copy (but him that issue, etc.) or let him read over their copy and up or down it.

While the fact that these new "exclusives" (and the D&D brand does not have a strong history of keeping "exclusive" material that way for long) are online may alter some of the specifics and nuances, in the end I just don't see it as being in any way different that subscription print exclusives from earlier years.

Cheers.

[RTGoodman]

I read the article and mostly thought "meh." Neither the exclusive race nor class interest me much so I probably won't even tell my players about them.

That's kinda how I feel about it. The race isn't one that would see much use, I don't think, unless it had some ridiculously overpowered mechanics (like Oversized) that made people want it. The class (Assassin) is the same kinda thing - I mean, yeah non-subscribers might want it (so they could subscribe to get it), but it's not really something essential, I think, when we already have the Rogue and Avenger classes and numerous Assassin-related Paragon Paths, Multiclass-Only classes, feats, and so on. If they had decided to make, for instance, the Psion into a DDI-exlusive thing, yeah, I'd say that's not cool, but I think this is different.

(Also, if my subscription price is going up, I better be getting some good stuff in return. Full excerpts from future supplements AND web-exclusive stuff is fine by me.)

[valadil]

Sorry, not buying the outrage here. One of the most popular selling points for The Dragon (with the definite article) way back in time was the introduction of all new material... especially classes, that were not in the books. In other words, content that you had to pay a subscription fee to get.

The difference is that you bought a tangible magazine that you would always have. To keep playing your character using DDI races and classes you'll either have to keep paying for DDI, violate the ToS, or print the material for yourself and hope that the DM doesn't mind you using a class that you got off the internet but can't show him the source material.

I almost bought a DDI account last week. Then I read about how the character tools are windows only and they used the newest .net framework ensuring that linux users couldn't run character tools in wine. I was thinking about setting up a VM just for character tools. Now WotC does stuff like this and I'm less inclined to give them money. I don't care that they're distributing material over DDI, it's the ToS that's psising me off.

[Optimystik]

Sorry, not buying the outrage here. One of the most popular selling points for The Dragon (with the definite article) way back in time was the introduction of all new material... especially classes, that were not in the books. In other words, content that you had to pay a subscription fee to get.

The difference is that the DMCA doesn't apply to print media. You can show someone your Dragon magazine without breaking the law; not so with DDI. If your DM doesn't have a subscription, you're either a criminal or SOL.

[shadzar]

Sorry, not buying the outrage here. One of the most popular selling points for The Dragon (with the definite article) way back in time was the introduction of all new material... especially classes, that were not in the books. In other words, content that you had to pay a subscription fee to get.

While Dragon was in printed form mailed to you or picked up physically in your hands form a store, you have the legal right to allow anybody to borrow your personal tangible property.

Now you have a subscription that does not even include permission to print within the e-files that make up Dragon, and you have no legal right to show this material to your DM or other people.

So with Dragon-exclusive material it is only good for those with DDI subscriptions.

So in the past it worked because you COULD SHARE your material, but now you may NOT share material from the DDI subscription.

So how exactly do you legally get your DM to agree to using some race/class/feat/power, that they legally cannot view? Turn your DM into a software pirate and have them start downloading material illegally?

Risk losing your own DDI account due to bringing this material to an RPGA event and sharing it with someone else like the DM of the event that does not have their own?

If I were to hear of a DDI subscriber bringing and sharing this material to an RPGA or any other event I would report them for account sharing to DDI. Not that I have a problem with them doing it, but in an attempt to fix the flawed system they have created with the DDI.

WotC created a system in which you are not allowed to share your gaming material anymore due in part to the medium it is presented in and the TOS for using that medium.

They give the user no real legal leg to stand on when using this material presented.

So if they were to bring back printed magazines or allow for the sharing of material then they go back to what Dragon was by how it worked. They will need to include the proper disclaimers on each page that is allowed to print and share, or place it in the EULA/TOS of DDI that the material can be shared, or print the articles themselves for people to buy.

WotC started a war over piracy with the PDF thing. Now will they uphold to their position or be wishy-washy on it?

What they do and how they do it, could really show their interest in protecting their rights with the material versus someone else claiming it as undefended right and it be deemed public domain.

I would be all for D&D to be public domain, so I will be watching closely their actions regarding this exclusive DDI content.

[ghost_warlock]

You mean Complete Psionic? That had some nice stuff, like Erudite, Lurk and Zerth Cenobite. They even made Soulknife useful (by turning it into Soulbow).

I was talking more about the horrible fluff abomination that is the Divine Mind, the complete waste of space in the form of numerous racial feats that are just "you can use X psi-like ability 3/day rather than 1/day," the discontinuity of illithid life cycle (not to mention poor editing on the PrC based on it), a wilder PrC that's actually easier for psions to enter, lack of clarification on power(s) that needed it (e.g., thicken skin), nerfs disguised as buffs (e.g., ectopic form feats), powers that cause negative levels that last for a single round, the "guy with the lightsaber"...okay I'm going to stop there.

The book had a few salvageable things I liked, I'll admit, but I'm honestly surprised Bruce signed his name to the thing.

While the fact that these new "exclusives" (and the D&D brand does not have a strong history of keeping "exclusive" material that way for long) are online may alter some of the specifics and nuances, in the end I just don't see it as being in any way different that subscription print exclusives from earlier years.

"Exclusive" just means "here it is, don't expect us to ever mention it again."

[CheshireCatAW]

Originally Posted by BlckDv
Sorry, not buying the outrage here. One of the most popular selling points for The Dragon (with the definite article) way back in time was the introduction of all new material... especially classes, that were not in the books. In other words, content that you had to pay a subscription fee to get.

The problem here is some people just don't like breaking the law. It actually bothers them. I won't lie, it doesn't bother me to print stuff like that out (if I were to use it, which I probably wont) and share it with my group of friends. However, I'm in the wrong here, and the way I react to doing things like that should not be considered the way all people should react to it. They should especially not be looked down upon just because they feel morally challenged when using such things.

Edit: A second problem, I suppose, would simply be people who are not familiar with the EULA of DDi; They think that they're playing legally, and thus do not understand why people are unhappy. Even though you use the product in a fashion that, intuitively, seems like the intended purpose, you are still illegally using the product and as it is your responsibility to read every document that you agree to, are just as guilty as the guy who downloaded it from some pirate site. Fun catch, eh?

[valadil]

The problem here is some people just don't like breaking the law. It actually bothers them. I won't lie, it doesn't bother me to print stuff like that out (if I were to use it, which I probably wont) and share it with my group of friends. However, I'm in the wrong here, and the way I react to doing things like that should not be considered the way all people should react to it. They should especially not be looked down upon just because they feel morally challenged when using such things.

Right. See, I don't mind breaking the law. But I don't want to pay for a product that requires me to break the law if I'm to use it properly. At that point I might as well just circumvent DDI entirely and download the content from elsewhere. I'm sure someone else will put it online as soon as it's released anyway.

[Shular]

Hmm. What about the character generator? Any character you make with it will have the exclusive class/racial abilities. feats, and powers. You then have the option of printing that character, complete with the power cards, which contain the information.

I don't believe there are any restrictions about showing the character sheet and power cards, and in fact, since dragon material is legal in RPGA, that would be how one must present their character.

In other words, the character generator is the tool which allows you to bring exclusive material to the table.

That being said, there is still something that bothers me, though I can't put my finger on it. I feel like they're turning D&D into a version of the Magic CCG (or other collectable card games) where the haves can stack their decks, and the have nots must play with their starter decks.

[Optimystik]

If I were to hear of a DDI subscriber bringing and sharing this material to an RPGA or any other event I would report them for account sharing to DDI. Not that I have a problem with them doing it, but in an attempt to fix the flawed system they have created with the DDI.

That's not how you get them to fix it. If you want them to fix DDI, EVERYONE should print it and take it with them.That would convince them that their system is a failure, just like the RIAA were convinced to let iTunes remove DRM from the files in their store.

I was talking more about the horrible fluff abomination that is the Divine Mind, the complete waste of space in the form of numerous racial feats that are just "you can use X psi-like ability 3/day rather than 1/day," the discontinuity of illithid life cycle (not to mention poor editing on the PrC based on it), a wilder PrC that's actually easier for psions to enter, lack of clarification on power(s) that needed it (e.g., thicken skin), nerfs disguised as buffs (e.g., ectopic form feats), powers that cause negative levels that last for a single round, the "guy with the lightsaber"...okay I'm going to stop there.

YMMV. I loved Divine Mind and the mantles. I assume the wilder PrC you're referring to is Anarchic Initiate; the book explicitly says psions can pick it up too, but I don't consider blowing a feat to get access to a requirement that wilders get for free to be "easier." And it had nice and flavorful psionic items like the plasma skins. Sure, it wasn't the best "Complete" on the market, but it did well at its job... imo, of course.

[Limos]

I see why everyone is pissed but I still don't quite understand this "don't like to break the law" business you keep talking about. It's a crummy little magazine article with some crunch that any half decent homebrewer could crank out in a few minutes.

I guess I'm not exactly a good source on issues of morality as I actually am a software pirate and thus have already trampled my conscience into little bloody smears.

[Optimystik]

I'll support a business model that isn't idiotic. For example, I'm a Pandora One subscriber; not because the ads bothered me, but because I valued the service so much that I felt they deserved my money. The increased sound quality and skips are perks as far as I'm concerned.

When corporations attempt to bludgeon me into fitting their revenue model, however (I'm looking at you Zunepass) then that's when I dig my heels in.

[kamuishirou]

Tricks like that only ensure me in my belief that there is nothing morally wrong in my alternate way of obtaining DND materials.

I love DDI! And the fact that you need something to tell you that there is nothing morally wrong with obtaining your D&D material...well, I see something wrong with that.

I will admit, I miss my paper Dragon and Dungeon, but they've really shown me what they can do and have impressed me. I'm ok with supporting my habit with DDI. I get a lot more than I did with Everquest or WoW. The Character Builder alone is worth the money to me and getting Dungeon and Dragon every month is just icing.

Of course, this is all just my opinion.

edit: Sorry, I'll get back on topic with the thread.

I've noticed many people mention that WoTC has published that the DM should always say yes. I must have to admit I disagree with that and it's the DM's world and his rules. He doesn't have to accept everything nor follow everything to the 'T'.

My current DM runs the world the way he sees it. I don't agree with him on some things, he still likes to make treasure random, even though the new rules state to give items your players can use. While this does frustrate me a little bit, I'm ok with it. (We've fought Hobgoblins numerous times and I've gotten three magical flails with no one using the flail in the party.)

The world is up to the DM and whether anyone says you have to say yes to something is ridiculous.

It's a game and we all have our own house rules, whether it's for Magic or Monopoly.

[ghost_warlock]

YMMV. I loved Divine Mind and the mantles. I assume the wilder PrC you're referring to is Anarchic Initiate; the book explicitly says psions can pick it up too, but I don't consider blowing a feat to get access to a requirement that wilders get for free to be "easier." And it had nice and flavorful psionic items like the plasma skins. Sure, it wasn't the best "Complete" on the market, but it did well at its job... imo, of course.

Divine Mind mechanics are fine, I don't have a problem with those. Mantles are okay, if a bit stringent on high-level powers (like two of them have a 9th-level power). The fluff for Divine Mind is atrocious, though. Deities granting psionic powers is Grade-A B.S. Psionics are about self-actualization, self-expression, and mastering one's own innate power; not servitude and piety. Psionic power shouldn't be granted by a deity in response to prayer - that's a divine spell slot - psionics are unlocked though self-discovery and reaching towards one's own full potential. A psionics supplement should not have a page wasted to listing every major deity from three different settings. The 'divine power source' has enough material devoted to it in 3e that it shouldn't need to bleed into a psionics supplement.

As for the Anarchic Initiate, what level does a wilder have to be to have 8 ranks in a cross-class skill? Honestly, a psion picking up Overchannel is more natural and commonplace than a wilder jumping through hoops to pick up 8 ranks in Knowledge (the planes). I suppose, either way, it's a problem solved by a single feat, but it still just seems wrong to me.

If you like CP, that's fine, but it's virtually a "wall-banger" for many of us.

On Topic: I honestly don't see what's different about this DDI "exclusive content" compared to the Dragon & Dungeon magazines; considering all but the first three of each have essentially been 'exclusive' content. If someone's downloading recent Dragon or Dungeon magazines they're doing so illegally if they aren't DDI subscribers.

[Tiki Snakes]

Not to mention a good number of the upcoming 'insider exclusives' are just early-but-finished stuff from next year's PHB3?

[shadzar]

Hmm. What about the character generator? Any character you make with it will have the exclusive class/racial abilities. feats, and powers. You then have the option of printing that character, complete with the power cards, which contain the information.

As long as the info from CB is included in the free demo version you are OK, but when you print something from CB that is only in Dragon, technically you are violating the law and TOS.

Likewise when you print something form CB and give info to anyone who doesn't own a book like Arcane Power, you are breaking the law and violating the TOS, because you are showing them material they should not otherwise have access to and "sharing" you DDI account with them which is against the TOS of DDI. You are not allowed to share the info, unless the sheets states "reproduction is allowed for personal use" on them.

Which if found out could cost you acces to DDI.

Likewise when you are no logner a subscriber you have no right to continue using the CB and are supposed to delete it.

That is the law of it all.

That is the reason many people want a piece of software they can buy and own, not to rent. Then you can legally continue to use it after your DDI subscription is terminated and you just cannot legally update/patch it anymore.

They are truly trying to do the MMO thing where your use is illegal after you aren't giving them any money, meaning to continue use is akin to hacking sicne you are refusing to delete the product, even though they did not place a timer in the product.

Lorraine Williams tactics anyone? Even if they don't enforce those parts of the TOS, then you are still breaking them, and they CAN enforce them at a later date, once they have collected enough names to prosecute, or just terminate the accounts via some form of watermark like on the former PDFs.

You had better really know and trust the person you are haring material with from ANY portion of the DDI "suite".

That's not how you get them to fix it. If you want them to fix DDI, EVERYONE should print it and take it with them.That would convince them that their system is a failure, just like the RIAA were convinced to let iTunes remove DRM from the files in their store.

True. So for GenCon every person attending should come with printed copies of the Dragon and Dungeon content that is only for DDI subscribers and share it around, and then WotC will either have to ban the content, declare it not-core, or allow sharing of DDI content, which will invalidate DDI-exclusive content due to the distribution method/media they chose as an incorrect one for the product they are trying to deliver.

I see why everyone is pissed but I still don't quite understand this "don't like to break the law" business you keep talking about. It's a crummy little magazine article with some crunch that any half decent homebrewer could crank out in a few minutes.

I guess I'm not exactly a good source on issues of morality as I actually am a software pirate and thus have already trampled my conscience into little bloody smears.

Say Character Builder starts watermarking the printouts with your forum name, or some other identifying mark.

Having a CB printout without this would be illegal. So removing it would mean anyone in possession of unmarked printouts form CB would be in possession of illegal and pirated material.

Multipe people have printouts, but they all share the same watermark, meaning they came formt he same source, a single user. Well these people have legal copies of this printed out material, but are NOT the legal allowed users of it, so again the people in possession have pirated copies. Also in this case the user in which the watermark represents is in violation of TOS, and responsible for distributing illegal copies of the materail to others...again piracy.

All could face legal actions, and the kick in the gonads is the subscriber loses their DDI account for sharing data in violation of the TOS. Since this is a computer crime, that person could also lose access to use any computer, have their personal/business computers seized, and forbidden to even use the internet; all because of their piracy of the material in the printouts from Character Builder given to other people with Dragon-only-exclusive material in it.



So that crummy little magazine has a whole lot of baggage with it and risk of using the product. Again why people want a product they buy, not rent, so they have more rights to it, including but not limited to: continued use after updating services no longer available, off-line use, ability to print material for personal use (including a DM printing out all his players sheets), etc ,etc ,etc.

WotC recent actions have left them not being very trusted in this manner due to punishing everyone with the loss of PDF sales because they think they can combat piracy.

They have created bad PR for these reasons, and some people are just looking out to make sure the little hobby they enjoy doesn't land them in jail from some knee-jerk company out to make every last penny it can while in its death throws. Including criminal actions against its own fans and the ones who were legally obtaining their products.

Smells like LW to me!