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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Need help balancing an expertise fighter

    I want to make an Expertise fighter who uses his weapons for defense instead of armor. What I was thinking about is to take out all armor prof. and instead give him at 1st level Weapon Expertise and the Expert Swordman feat (described below)

    Expert Swordman [General]
    You use your weapon for defense instead of armor.
    Prerequisites: Combat Expertise, int 15.
    Benefit: You may add your intelligence modifier as Armor Bonus to your AC vs. melee attacks when wearing no armor.
    Special: Fighters may take this feat as one of their bonus feats.

    Do you think this change is balanced? Maybe it should be just Combat Expertise at 1st level and not Expert Swordman? Would it be too unbalanced to make the AC bonus dodge bonus? Do you think there should be a minimum BAB prerequisites? And can you think up a better name for the feat? :P

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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Need help balancing an expertise fighter

    The Duelist from the DMG/SRD and the Invisible Blade from Complete Adventurer (both prestige classes) have class abilities that do just that, except against all attacks instead of just melee ones. And there's a limit to the bonus based on your class level.

    No feat necessary!
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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: Need help balancing an expertise fighter

    No thanks. I would rather stick with feats and not take any prestige classes, since I need +5 fortitude save to qualify for a prestige class I want, I take three classes as it is and the DM won't let me balance my saves by "X levels of good fort. and y levels of bad fort." With a different character I ended up failing all my will saves because of that >:(

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    The White Knight's Avatar

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    Default Re: Need help balancing an expertise fighter

    I wouldn't make it an armor bonus. Sounds more like a dodge bonus (or a parry bonus, if such a bonus exists?).

    Doesn't seem too bad to me. It seems limited enough for its benefit.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Need help balancing an expertise fighter

    Just don't get shot at too much!

    I'd say if you were trading armor for that feat, then at least give you the normal bonus. And they are right, not an Armor bonus, a dodge bonus or parry bonus.

    You could come up with more feats along these lines.

    Sensible Fighter
    You can sense the fighting happening around you and protect yourself much better than normal.
    Prerequisties: Int 13, Wis 13, Combat Expertise
    Benefit: You may add your wisdom modifier to your AC as a dodge bonus when wearing no armor.
    Special: Fighters may take this feat as one of their bonus feats.
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    SpiderBrigade's Avatar

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    Default Re: Need help balancing an expertise fighter

    ...the DM won't let me balance my saves by "X levels of good fort. and y levels of bad fort." With a different character I ended up failing all my will saves because of that
    Wait, what? I'm not 100% sure what you mean by that, but it SOUNDS like your DM is doing something completely opposite to how the rules are supposed to work. If you take X levels of good fort and Y levels of bad, you're still supposed to have a save equal to X's save +Y's save....
    "'To know, to do, and to keep silent.' Crowley had the first two down pat."

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    The White Knight's Avatar

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    Default Re: Need help balancing an expertise fighter

    I think what the OP means is taking 2 levels in rogue and 2 levels in bard (for example) yielding a +0 base fort save, instead of adding the 2/3 and 2/3 together for 1-1/3 with the fractional bonus variant.

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    Frojoe21's Avatar

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    Default Re: Need help balancing an expertise fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by tgva8889
    Sensible Fighter
    You can sense the fighting happening around you and protect yourself much better than normal.
    Prerequisties: Int 13, Wis 13, Combat Expertise
    Benefit: You may add your wisdom modifier to your AC as a dodge bonus when wearing no armor.
    Special: Fighters may take this feat as one of their bonus feats.
    The one major problem I see with that feat is when monks take it. It increases their armor class further, which takes away one of the balancing factors of the monk.

    EDIT: Well, anyone might have thought of that problem. You could look at the Parry ability from Arcana evolved, where you add up to half your level of Int bonus to Armor class. So, maybe a feat like

    Parry [General, Fighter]
    Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise, Dodge
    Benefits: When you designate an opponent for the dodge feat, you may add an additional dodge bonus equal to your Intelligence modifier against the same foe.
    Normal: Dodge only grants you a +1 dodge bonus to AC against one opponent
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    Titan in the Playground
     
    Matthew's Avatar

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    Default Re: Need help balancing an expertise fighter

    Frojoe,

    I like the idea of a Parry Feat, but I think perhaps it ought to look more like this:

    Parry [General]
    Prerequisite: Dexterity 13, Combat Expertise
    Benefit: During your action, when using a Weapon, you designate an opponent and receive a +1 Parry bonus to Armor Class against attacks from that opponent. You can select a new opponent on any action.
    Special: A fighter may select Block as one of his fighter bonus feats.

    I also think a Block Feat would be useful:

    Block [General]
    Prerequisite: None
    Benefit: During your action, when using a Shield, you designate an opponent and receive a +1 Block bonus to Armor Class against attacks from that opponent. You can select a new opponent on any action.
    A condition that makes you lose your Shield bonus to Armor Class also makes you lose your Block bonus.
    Special: A fighter may select Block as one of his fighter bonus feats.

    I can't say I particularly like these 'Expert Fighter' or 'Sensible Swordsmen' Feats; they seem designed to artificially overcome the problems of not wearing armour for characters with high Ability Scores, when high Dexterity already covers this.

    I think the Dexterity Limit on Armour, Defensive Fighting and the Dodge, Combat Expertise and Improved Combat Expertise Feats already adequately fulfil this role, but each to their own.
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  10. - Top - End - #10
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: Need help balancing an expertise fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by The White Knight
    I think what the OP means is taking 2 levels in rogue and 2 levels in bard (for example) yielding a +0 base fort save, instead of adding the 2/3 and 2/3 together for 1-1/3 with the fractional bonus variant.
    Exactly, only in my case I was a 5th level fighter 1st level gladiator, and instead of getting +1 to every save I got a crappy +2 to fort. Since my wis modifier is 0, he obviously threw hold person and scare at me, making me nearly die once and missing a major battle another time... It's so bad I consider taking Iron Will for my next feat [disgusted]

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