Swashbuckler

[Suzuro]

So, I've been thinking lately, and there are several characters that I want to make, and one of them is a swashbuckler.

Since I haven't heard very much about this class, my question to the playground is: Where does the swashbuckler sit powerwise? Is it up near the rogue?, or does it share drinks with the samurai and monk?


-Suzuro

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Don't take more than 3 levels and you will be fine.

[Zaq]

Swashbuckler is generally regarded to be a three-level class. INT to damage is a nice ability that few other classes can easily replicate, but after that it becomes REALLY lackluster and basically not worth it.

Daring Outlaw, from Complete Scoundrel, lets your Rogue and Swashbuckler levels stack for sneak attack damage, so a Rogue 3 (or more) / Swashbuckler X with that feat is one of the best ways to play a Swashbuckler. Personally, I value skill points more than I value full BAB (which, along with d10 hit dice, is what the Swashbuckler primarily has over the Rogue), but if you're set on Swashbuckler, your best bet is almost certainly Daring Outlaw.

Are you set on the class of Swashbuckler, or the role of swashbuckler? If it's the latter, you might be better off with a Rogue, Bard, or Factotum and simply fluffing it as you see fit.

One thing that Swashbuckler is decent for, in my mind, is Dervish entry, but that's still pretty darn underpowered compared to, say, a Barbarian.

[Eldariel]

So, I've been thinking lately, and there are several characters that I want to make, and one of them is a swashbuckler.

Since I haven't heard very much about this class, my question to the playground is: Where does the swashbuckler sit powerwise? Is it up near the rogue?, or does it share drinks with the samurai and monk?


-Suzuro

Swashbuckler alone is quite mediocre; worse than Fighter, but better than Samurai (the level 3 Int-to-damage is actually fairly good). However, there's this wonderful feat named "Daring Outlaw" in Complete Scoundrel that allows stacking Swashbuckler- and Rogue-levels for Sneak Attack. Suddenly, that makes the class an EXCELLENT two-weapon fighter (automatic Weapon Finesse, Int to damage and full BAB outside from the necessary Rogue-dip, which nets you Penetrating Strike too).

Combine that with two levels of Swordsage to pick up Weapon Focus, Assassin's Stance (+2d6 Sneak Attack), and most importantly, Shadow Blade which allows adding Dex to damage. Oh, and few other tricks like the ability to make an attack with both weapons as a standard action, the ability to jump as a swift action and so on.


If you pick Able Learner, you can even be a trapmonkey. Otherwise, better focus on the more swashbucklery skills though. The big problem in the game is that Feinting sucks, which kinda hurts Swashbuckler's shtick. That said, Swordsage does that part pretty well.

But yeah, Daring Outlaw is an excellent character, Swashbuckler alone is a 3-level dip.

[MissK]

I just came out of playing a swashbuckler and I agree that multiclassing in rogue is the best way to play it. Sneak attack on flanking owns. I disagree about the "only three levels" thing though -- mostly because I enjoyed Acrobatic Charge so much. It's wonderful for times when you want to vault off your horse and charge, jump over a table and charge or even do something mundane as charge in moderate undergrowth.

The key to an effective swashbuckler is tailoring equipment and feats to match your campaign - that really makes the difference between being functional and being eaten. As far as equipment goes, get a really nice weapon (or two) and something that either grants concealment or makes you invisible. The best battles are the ones in which you never get hit. For feats I recommend Raptor School - it grants three tactical maeuvers, two of which give a bonus to attack and/or damage. I one-shotted a lot of things using Raptor School.

The last thing to keep in mind is that Swashbucklers are fun for RP - not so much for powergaming. I had a LOT of fun, but I was far from the most powerful member of my team. If that bothers you, Swashbuckler will be a frustrating class.

[Nohwl]

Don't take more than 3 levels and you will be fine.

if he takes a few rogue levels and daring outlaw he can take more.

[Eldariel]

if he takes a few rogue levels and daring outlaw he can take more.

Indeed; Rogue 4/Swashbuckler 16 with Daring Outlaw is very good. Although Rogue 3/Swordsage 3/Swashbuckler 14 is my personal favourite.

[raptor1056]

I myself am a fan of Swash 3/ monk 3/Fighter 2/ Duelist 7/ Shadowdancer 5. Gets you Wis+ Dex+ Int to AC. Is fun.

[Olo Demonsbane]

I have a Pbp character that is a swashbuckler...see the link in my sig.

[Harperfan7]

You would be much better off just playing a rogue and calling yourself a swashbuckler, because really, the swashbuckler stereotype is completely compatable with the rogue class.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

You would be much better off just playing a rogue and calling yourself a swashbuckler, because really, the swashbuckler stereotype is completely compatable with the rogue class.

But the first three levels give you a vital bonus feat and some nifty abilities. And since you can get the two levels to stack for purposes of progression of Grace and Sneak Attack... why not?

[Harperfan7]

Oh no, mechanically that would be much better. I'm just saying that the swashbuckler class really shouldn't exist.

EDIT: Ok, that wasn't very clear.

Best option: Play a rogue and get daring outlaw and 3 levels of swashbuckler.
Next best option: Play a rogue styled to be a swashbuckler.
Worst option: Play a swashbuckler.

[Ravens_cry]

Oh no, mechanically that would be much better. I'm just saying that the swashbuckler class really shouldn't exist.

I disagree. Rogues are commonly presented as sneakers and talkers. Having a class dedicated to the Flynning insult sword fighting, archetype is just delightful.

[Eldariel]

I disagree. Rogues are commonly presented as sneakers and talkers. Having a class dedicated to the Flynning insult sword fighting, archetype is just delightful.

Rogues are presented, maybe, but the Rogue-class specifically states that it can represent anyone from a thief to a fast-talking swordsman. Rogue is suited for any fighter who doesn't fight like a fighter, as well as anyone specialized in skills. Swashbuckler is certainly an archetype Rogue is like made for.

[hamishspence]

though one might argue there should be a generic fighter class that should be able to portray archetypes as wide apart as the light fighting, charismatic swashbuckler and the heavy fighting legionary, and many more.

3.5 has tended to split off archetypes- ninja and scout from rogue, samurai, knight and swashbuckler from fighter.

Maybe the fighter should have been more versatile.