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Thread: meat sheild

  1. - Top - End - #31
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: meat sheild

    Here's some suggestions:

    -D12 hit die. Average (cleric) BAB. High Fort save, low reflex and will.

    -Gains Shield Other as a spell-like ability usable X/day
    -Gains an ability to negate any effect with a partial fort save with a sucessful saving throw.
    -Gains a ranged attack attraction where any missile that flies within 5' of the meat shield hits him instead. This area increases by 5' every other level to a max of 25'
    -Is able to suck up an area effect, but is affected by it a number of times equal to the allies in the area of effect. So if him and three buddies were in the area, he gets hit for quad effect.
    -Is able to use an Intimidate check to enrage an opponent to attack/target him to the exlusion of anyone else.
    -will not die until he goes down to negative max hps. So a meat shield with 120 hps can still function down to -120, but anything below 0 functions like the Dieheard feat.
    -immune to charm/compulsion effects that force the meat shield to target his allies.
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: meat sheild

    Hmm. Upon further reflection, I'd agree that a decent reflex save and evasion are out of character, I still stand by the fort/will saves and mettle however.
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: meat sheild

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost
    Here's some suggestions:

    -D12 hit die. Average (cleric) BAB. High Fort save, low reflex and will.

    -Gains Shield Other as a spell-like ability usable X/day
    -Gains an ability to negate any effect with a partial fort save with a sucessful saving throw.
    -Gains a ranged attack attraction where any missile that flies within 5' of the meat shield hits him instead. This area increases by 5' every other level to a max of 25'
    -Is able to suck up an area effect, but is affected by it a number of times equal to the allies in the area of effect. So if him and three buddies were in the area, he gets hit for quad effect.
    -Is able to use an Intimidate check to enrage an opponent to attack/target him to the exlusion of anyone else.
    -will not die until he goes down to negative max hps. So a meat shield with 120 hps can still function down to -120, but anything below 0 functions like the Dieheard feat.
    -immune to charm/compulsion effects that force the meat shield to target his allies.

    i like were this is geting...

    i like the deflect arrows alot, or howabout deflect trap

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: meat sheild

    Autores: Broken
    Diehard to negative max hp: Broken
    Able to soak an aoe: Broken

    Those three abilities just allow for too much....

    That said, some nifty looking stuff's been posted here, so I'm gonna try to piece something together.
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadrian_Emrys
    If someone were to even CONSIDER putting their lives in your hands, you most certainly would have a high will save. If you couldn't keep your mind under lockdown, all you are is a weapon to be used against the beings in your charge.
    Then shouldn't everyone in the party have a high will save? no. Fighter's don't because, although they are resolved against the fears of combat, the do NOT possess mental fortitude. You don't see them turn tail and run like a coward do you? Wizards, Clerics, Monks, they have a common theme... Wizards and Clerics rely on their minds heavily, where as monks usually acheive a strong will from years of rigid codes and meditation. Just because you don't want the man with a sheild to run away doesn't mean he should have a high will save.

    Besides, a Will save is a symbol of how powerful and controlled/discipplined a mind is. A mental battle against a wizards intrusion is the best example. I don't see that AT ALL.
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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: meat sheild

    Meat Shield, The
    This is a person who knows his role well, and accepts it. He is noone push around and is always the last to retreat. Generally very loyal, be it to a person or cause, they do however despise being manipulated and will respond to deceptive actions in a very martial manner.

    Requirements:
    Alignment: Non-Chaotic
    BAB: +8
    Proficiency with all martial weapons and with heavy armor and shields.
    Combat Expertise
    Endurance
    Improved Initiative
    Concentration, 4 ranks
    Sense Motive, 4 ranks

    Meat Shield, The gains no additional proficiency with any weapons or armor.
    HD: d12
    The meat shield, the's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con) Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), and Swim (Str).


    BAB F//R//W Special
    1 +0 +2/+0/+2 Die-Hard, Form of Metal
    2 +1 +3/+0/+3 DR 1/-, Improved Grapple
    3 +2 +3/+1/+3 Trap Sense +1, Mocking Blow
    4 +3 +4/+1/+4 Shield Other (1/day), Improved Expertise
    5 +3 +4/+1/+4 DR 2/-, Will of Metal
    6 +4 +5/+2/+5 Trap Sense +2, Nobody's Pincushion
    7 +5 +5/+2/+5 Shield Other (2/day), Directed Intent
    8 +6 +6/+2/+6 DR 3/-, Flawless Guard
    9 +6 +6/+3/+6 Trap Sense +3,
    0 +7 +7/+3/+7 Shield Other (3/day), Deathless Resolve

    Diehard: As the feat of the same name. If you already have Diehard you may instead gain any feat from the Fighter feats list that you meet the requirements for.

    Form of Metal: You receive no movement penalties for wearing medium or heavy armor. You receive no encumbrance penalties while carrying under max load. You do not receive the normal -2 to attack rolls while using a tower shield and can use a tower shield to grant cover to an adjacent ally (yourself not included), though the ally gains a -4 penalty to melee attacks, you must forego all attacks as normal and neither of you get the shield's bonus to AC. In addition, if you have the Spring Attack feat you may use it as normal in heavy armor.

    Improved Grapple: You gain the feat Improved Grapple even if you do not meet the requirements.

    Trap Sense: As the rogue ability, gives a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps. These bonuses rise to +2 at 6th level and +3 at 9th level. Trap sense bonuses gained from multiple classes stack.

    Mocking Blow: As a standard action, make an attack roll at your highest BAB against an opponent. If it hits, rolll damage normally but instead of your opponent taking damage, they instead must make a Will save vs DC 10 + damage rolled. If they fail, for one round they cannot take any targetted action unless that target is you (this includes melee/ranged attacks and targetted spells, any aoe spell or personal range spell is unnafected). This is a non-magical compulsion effect.

    Shield Other(su): As the divine spell of the same name with the following exceptions: takes a standard action to invoke that does not provoke AoO, duration is based on class levels in MS,T, range is fixed at 25 feet, does not require v/s components but focus is the same. Note that it can be active multiple times simultaneously as long as each target is different. This does not in any way stack with the divine equivalent. If a target is the beneficiary of Shield Other from two sources, benefit is gained from the one cast with the highest class level.

    Improved Expertise: The only limit on the amount of attack you can sacrifice to gain AC while fighting defensively is only limited by your BAB.

    Will of Metal: You gain a +2 circumstance bonus on Will saves against fear affects. You may, at your option, decide before the save is rolled to substitute a Concentration check for a will save. Any time a compulsion affect would cause you to act against anyone to whom you've declared loyalty (generally the 'party' or the organization you martially support) you are immediately granted a will save (even if one is not normally allowed). Success suppresses the effect (does not cancel) for one round, during which you have free action. This round counts towards the duration of the effect.

    Nobody's Pincushion(su): Any shield wielded by a MS,T is considered to have the persistent (cannot be deactivated) ability Arrow Catching except the deflection bonus is increased to +2.

    Directed Intent: During your action, you designate an opponent and receive a +2 deflection bonus to Armor Class against attacks from that opponent and a +1 circumstance bonust to attacks against that opponent. You can select a new opponent on any action.

    Flawless Guard: You can no longer be flanked. You lose all benefit of this ability if you are denied your Dexterity bonus to AC with respect to any oppenent threatening you.

    Deathless Resolve: If reduced to -1 or fewer hitpoints you can still take a full action or strenous action without loss of hit points. In addition, if reduced to -10 or fewer hitpoints you can remain funcional for a number of rounds equal to your constitution bonus. If when reduced to -10 hit points you receive benefit from any healing effect, you immediately 'lose resolve' and are exhausted. You automatically make any Fortitude save vs. death caused by massive damage.


    Not sure how balanced it is, but it takes a bit for a straight fighter to get into.

    Edit: Changed the requirements a little (lowered ranks needed in skills, added BAB req), took out Adamant Form (a little too damned handy), and added the save bit to Deathless Resolve (which I had originally intended to have in there, but forgot), and explicitly stated no Shield Otherx2.
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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: meat sheild

    Take out Adamant Form. It's overpowered for the class and unnecessary.

    Mocking Blow: As a standard action, make an attack roll at your highest BAB against an opponent. If it hits, rolll damage normally but instead of your opponent taking damage, they instead must make a Will save vs DC 10 + damage rolled. If they fail, for one round they cannot take any targetted action unless that target is you (this includes melee/ranged attacks and targetted spells, any aoe spell or personal range spell is unnafected). This is a non-magical compulsion effect.
    I still say an intimidate check as a standard action to cause one opponent to target you would be an easier way to handle this. Perhaps as a higher-level effect you could set it up to affect multiple opponents at a higher DC check.
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: meat sheild

    Evil Dave: Looks pretty good. I like the flavor you have instilled in it, feels right.

    Balance-wise, I think it may be slightly overpowered, but it is not one thing that makes me think that. Let me think on it for a minute.

    Couple questions:
    1) Could the shield other ability stack with a ring of Friend Shield or with the actual spell Shield Other. Example: MeatShield activiates his power of Shield Other, then next round activates his Ring of Friend Shield. Would the mage he is defending only receive 1/4 the damage, giving the other 3/4 to the MeatShield?

    2) I think ranks in Intimidate would also be a good prereq for this class, not so much from a mechanics perspective but for a "I'm the bodyguard you do NOT want to mess with." flavor reason.

    Definitely something that can be worked with, good job!

    EDIT: spelling and grammar
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  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: meat sheild

    I was thinking Adamant Form might be too much... but I wanted something along the lines of Fortification. Maybe just light fortification?

    For Mocking Blow I basically copied and pasted Stand Still and changed a couple words.

    They way it's down right now, with the exception of Mocking Blow it's a somewhat passive class, I didn't want to require ranks in intimidate. As it stands, a straight fighter with 12 or 13 int is going to be using all his skill points up to 7th level in cc skills to get into this thing. I was also thinking about just having Diehard as an additional requirement, which would allow for the abilities to be a bit more spread out, but so far I haven't.

    Multiple Shield Other effects wouldn't stack. The reason I kept the same name as the spell was to reflect this. It effectively is the spell, but as a supernatural ability so as not to require casting ability (like spell mastery, only without the original spell), so some of the numbers were fixed (range) but I still wanted the duration to increase with level.

    I also recognize that this class would take a good lot to keep track of as it gets a number of bonuses to a great many rather separate things (could be a problem in the hands of a player who likes to keep 'selective' track of things and a DM who doesn't get very familiar with the class beforehand). But the whole thing is that this guy's supposed to be able to do a LOT with respect to taking damage of many sorts from different sources.
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: meat sheild

    Yeah, I agree Adamant Form is probably a litlle much. You've already got Flawless Guard in there to get rid of sneak attacks. But for criticals, sometimes the guard does take a shot right between the eyes.

    For the shield other, thats what I thought, but felt it should be explicitly stated.

    I still think Intimidate should be in there, but see your reasoning. However, I could see lowering the cc skill reqs down a rank or two, and making a minimum BAB of +6 a requirement, to reflect an ability to protect oneself AND someone else at the same time (using the two attacks the character would recieve).
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  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: meat sheild

    Changed a little as per input.

    Just because I think lvl 6 is a little early for this thing, I made the BAB req +8 but it's still less intensive to get into. Thinking about it, this thing would be great for a Psychic Warrior. They get Concentration as a class skill, if not sense motive, but their 3/4 BAB means they wouldn't meat the req's till 11th level unless you went 6 PW/4 Fighter or 4 PW/5 Fighter. Also not a bad class for (ex) Paladin, but it's not a Holy Mighting PrC, so no more pally levels for you.
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    Draxen's Corollary: Just because one uses social skills does not mean they are avoiding roleplaying. Using social skills does not prevent actual role-playing.

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: meat sheild

    I like the changes Evil Dave. Looks very good now. I give my stamp of approval. ;D

    Matter of fact, I may have to use it on one or two of my BBeGs bodyguards now, heh heh heh.
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  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: meat sheild

    ooh.... MS,T as an NPC... Evil :D


    The players will try to flank the bastard, to no effect. Ballistic ranged attacks will have a very difficult time. Anything involving a Fort save they likely won't try anyway, and anything involving a a Will save won't be much better (skills depending), so all the easy-out magiks are out. Main melee guy's gonna have it tough as well, especially as expertise (required) leads well into trip/disarm.

    Yep, high level MS,T's gonna mess em up.

    You've got my stamp of approval ;)
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  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: meat sheild

    Man, that class rocks. :D

    Hmmm.... I really can't wait until my players get to a point where they run into one of these ... plus some other nastiness at the same time.

    Imagine, the BBEG mage has one of these, plus a rogue or ranger as the other bodyguard? Evilness has a new protection method.

  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: meat sheild

    Now that I have said I like the PrC a lot, it is now time to throw out ideas for defeating it. As pointed out, high fort and will saves, so many typical spells are out. So on to spells without saves and ray attacks.

    Low level stuff like magic missile, ray of enfeeblement (love that one) and scorching ray hit for full effect. Fireball if you hit the MS and the BBeG at the same time would actually cause potentially 150% damage to the MS if the shield other is in effect, or 200% or 250% if he is shielding more than one person. Ouchie.

    Spells damaging abilities are not affected by the MS either, so you can still go around him with those spells to the BBeG, and you can always summon something right behind the BBeG.

    EDIT: spelling
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  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: meat sheild

    Drop Sense Motive as a prerequsite. It's got little to nothing to do with the class. He's a meat shield, he doesn't need to be able to detect lies, he just stands there and gets hit.

    Exchange Sense Motive for Intimidation and you'll have a more interesting class.
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    Default Re: meat sheild

    Quote Originally Posted by Green Magus

    Then shouldn't everyone in the party have a high will save? no. Fighter's don't because, although they are resolved against the fears of combat, the do NOT possess mental fortitude. You don't see them turn tail and run like a coward do you? Wizards, Clerics, Monks, they have a common theme... Wizards and Clerics rely on their minds heavily, where as monks usually acheive a strong will from years of rigid codes and meditation. Just because you don't want the man with a sheild to run away doesn't mean he should have a high will save.

    Besides, a Will save is a symbol of how powerful and controlled/discipplined a mind is. A mental battle against a wizards intrusion is the best example. I don't see that AT ALL.
    The problem with your line of thought is that this isn't just some fighter type. This is a person who has trained specifically to protect the person/people in their charge from all possible threats. Just because a person is focused on a physical profession one should not doubt that such an individual is incapable of the feats of mental fortitude of a spellcaster. If such were the case, the monk is all wrong.
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    Default Re: meat sheild

    Being willing to take a hit for someone unflinchingly takes mental fortitude. Being able to break adamantine with your fist does too. But the whole point of the monk is all about sharpening every aspect of themselves including mind. Most fighter types don't spend free time meditating, or get the instant feedback of a spell fizzling should their train of thought waver. A fighter with high wisdom will have better will saves than a wizard at first, but the wizard has more exercize, by the nature of his profession. Fighter can still take Iron Will and such to keep ahead for awhile, but the wizard eventually takes the lead by virtue of staring down the patterns of reality itself and winning. Saying a some fighers have that kind of mental resolve is like saying there are wizards who can beat up high level fighters without magic.

    I'm getting off topic here. Sorry.

    Yay! Meatshield! *hits meatshield* That did nothing.

    Good job Dave.
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    Default Re: meat sheild

    How about a -4 bonus to intelligence for choosing this class? ;D

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    Default Re: meat sheild

    Meatier storm = munchkin card. Not munchkin player. Card game munchkin. Double damage to vegans :P

    If you keep ressurect self, then make it usable only once per day, if it isn't already. Maybe once per month, given how useful it is to a meatshield.

    Adding on to what TheMeatShield posted, what about Hellball? The BBeG could be left defenceless in one round... And seince you take backlash damage, could your own meatshield protect you from that?

    Whatever. Looks like a fun class to play... "Ha! Your BBeG did 1% of my hp in damage with his critical!"

    Oh, and how many levels of this could you take? Max 15?

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    Default Re: meat sheild

    What about the Dwarven Defender?

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    Default Re: meat sheild

    Quote Originally Posted by Spriteless
    Being willing to take a hit for someone unflinchingly takes mental fortitude. Being able to break adamantine with your fist does too. But the whole point of the monk is all about sharpening every aspect of themselves including mind. Most fighter types don't spend free time meditating, or get the instant feedback of a spell fizzling should their train of thought waver. A fighter with high wisdom will have better will saves than a wizard at first, but the wizard has more exercize, by the nature of his profession. Fighter can still take Iron Will and such to keep ahead for awhile, but the wizard eventually takes the lead by virtue of staring down the patterns of reality itself and winning. Saying a some fighers have that kind of mental resolve is like saying there are wizards who can beat up high level fighters without magic.

    I'm getting off topic here. Sorry.

    Yay! Meatshield! *hits meatshield* That did nothing.

    Good job Dave.

    It's not off topic since we are debating the merit of one of the aspects of the class.

    Granting a good will save to a prc that will be seeing many fighters among their among their number doesn't put said fighters on a par with monk nor magi on will saves. The aforementioned fighters still need to slog through 9 levels before they can even switch classes, putting them well behind. They may not be facing the nature of the universe on a daily basis, but they are some of the most focused and aware among the physically oriented folks out there, folks who would (by virtue of mental preparation) throw themselves into the path of certain death on reflex alone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Innis Cabal View Post
    Toho has retroactive powers of awesome. He makes things that he hasn't done, and have already happened, better by his existence
    Quote Originally Posted by Ganurath View Post
    If anything, the term should be What Would Toho Do?
    Of course, in all situations the answer is Be A Badass.

  23. - Top - End - #53
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Cobrateen2000's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Washington

    Default Re: meat sheild

    First of all, you should build it up like the Warhulk from Minitures Handbook. Instead of a ability boost to strength, go with constitution. Then use some abilities that have already been mentioned.

    Also, come see my thread, classes that should exist but don't. I have a dexterity inclined Warhulk that you might want to see. You can also put the Meatsheild there.
    "Spoon!!!"
    -The Tick

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