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  1. - Top - End - #1

    Default A housecat can kill a commoner

    So can a regular old spider!

    Taking a tiny monsterous spider and shrinking it down to fine sized, it would have something like:

    1 hp,
    AC 21
    Bite 1 damage + fort save DC 6 or so for 1 str damage.
    Attack bonus is +11

    So assuming an average commoner with 10s in all stats, the fine sized spider hits 95% of the time, and the commoner hits 5% of the time.

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    Default Re: A housecat can kill a commoner

    Unless the commoner has something like a flyswatter, shoe, or rolled up newspaper. Those are all +8 defending items of vermin bane.

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    Default Re: A housecat can kill a commoner

    Well, kind of. Fine-sized enemies are typically supposed to follow the rules for Swarms, I think.

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    Default Re: A housecat can kill a commoner

    The commoner also deals nonlethal damage. Unless you give him a rake or a stick.


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    Default Re: A housecat can kill a commoner

    Quote Originally Posted by AslanCross View Post
    The commoner also deals nonlethal damage. Unless you give him a rake or a stick.
    Those are improvised weapons though, so he'd take a -4 to attack and still do nonlethal.
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    Default Re: A housecat can kill a commoner

    Quote Originally Posted by Amesoeurs View Post
    Those are improvised weapons though, so he'd take a -4 to attack and still do nonlethal.
    Aww, cut him some slack. Consider the stick a club or the rake a quarterstaff and let him do lethal damage.


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    Default Re: A housecat can kill a commoner

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    Default Re: A housecat can kill a commoner

    Monsters of Faerun had a fine spider.

    AC was only 20, 1 hp, attacked at +3 for 1

    I don't know where you got +11. It would have size bonuses, but also huge strength penalties.
    Last edited by Recaiden; 2009-06-07 at 11:49 PM.
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    Default Re: A housecat can kill a commoner

    Couldn't a house cat with magic fang incapacitate a dragon with a single claw hit if it got a natural 20 and the dragon has 0 hp?
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    Default Re: A housecat can kill a commoner

    Quote Originally Posted by AslanCross View Post
    The commoner also deals nonlethal damage. Unless you give him a rake
    I didn't think commoners could take feats?

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    Default Re: A housecat can kill a commoner

    The thing is, a venomous enough spider actually can kill a human. It happens.


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    Default Re: A housecat can kill a commoner

    Quote Originally Posted by shadzar View Post
    I didn't think commoners could take feats?
    They get feats normally at 1st, 3rd, 6th, etc and if they're humans second at 1st.
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    Default Re: A housecat can kill a commoner

    Shrinking a "monstrous spider" is not the same thing as statting out a common household spider. For one thing, most household spiders do not have a poison that significantly affects humans. If you're talking a black widow or something then the Fine sized monstrous spider stats sounds fair.

    And as for the cat, that is true. But since cats are not normally inclined to attack humans, and the human can outrun the cat if it does decide to attack, it is not a problem.

    I mean realistically if my housecat was brainwashed into attacking me it could kill me, too. It could rip out my throat - if I laid there and let it chew on me over and over. But I wouldn't do that, and neither would D&D commoners; and my housecat doesn't attack humans (except playfully) and neither should D&D cats.

    I always have to laugh at threads that make fun of how weak commoners are. Give 'em their one simple weapon and some leather armour (they aren't proficient, but it has no ACP so there is no penalty to them using it) and they do alright for themselves. With 28 point build and an intelligent Feat choice they can outlive many 1st level wizards.

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    Last edited by Another_Poet; 2009-06-08 at 12:04 AM.
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    Default Re: A housecat can kill a commoner

    Quote Originally Posted by Another_Poet View Post
    they do alright for themselves. With 28 point build and an intelligent Feat choice they can outlive many 1st level wizards.
    How? They both have d4 hit die, and the wizard at least has mage armor.

    Shrinking a "monstrous spider" is not the same thing as statting out a common household spider. For one thing, most household spiders do not have a poison that significantly affects humans. If you're talking a black widow or something then the Fine sized monstrous spider stats sounds fair.
    Fine, take out the poison entirely. Spider still wins, because the average commoner cannot hit the average fine sized thing more than 10% of the time. (And the spider dex bonus reduces that to 5%)

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    Default Re: A housecat can kill a commoner

    Quote Originally Posted by Another_Poet View Post
    And as for the cat, that is true. But since cats are not normally inclined to attack humans, and the human can outrun the cat if it does decide to attack, it is not a problem.

    I mean realistically if my housecat was brainwashed into attacking me it could kill me, too. It could rip out my throat - if I laid there and let it chew on me over and over. But I wouldn't do that, and neither would D&D commoners; and my housecat doesn't attack humans (except playfully) and neither should D&D cats.
    Actually, 1st level commoners have a much better chance than most people think. After all, you wouldn't try to hit a cat, would you? You'd pick it up and bash it against a wall. Do that, and after 3 hours of reading the grapple rules, the commoner is much more likely to win. Not certain, but there actually are housecat attacks that require ER visits, so it works out.
    I always have to laugh at threads that make fun of how weak commoners are. Give 'em their one simple weapon and some leather armour (they aren't proficient, but it has no ACP so there is no penalty to them using it) and they do alright for themselves. With 28 point build and an intelligent Feat choice they can outlive many 1st level wizards.

    ap
    But Wizards get that and spells, so why would the Commoner live longer?
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    Default Re: A housecat can kill a commoner

    The point is that Fine sized creatures are not supposed to have regular attacks, for exactly the reason you've just demonstrated.

    Look at the Monster Manual I and you'll see that the smallest creatures that have ordinary attack rolls are Tiny. Diminutive creatures like bats have no bite attack, and as far as I know there aren't any Fine creatures statted out in the book. Otherwise they'd have to come up with an exception to the 'every attack does at least 1 damage' rule. If they'd statted out a Fine spider in the books, it would have "Attack: None"

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    Default Re: A housecat can kill a commoner

    Quote Originally Posted by Another_Poet View Post
    I mean realistically if my housecat was brainwashed into attacking me it could kill me, too. It could rip out my throat - if I laid there and let it chew on me over and over. But I wouldn't do that, and neither would D&D commoners; and my housecat doesn't attack humans (except playfully) and neither should D&D cats.

    Is your cat declawed? I don't think you understand just how scary those things can be, if your cat was brainwashed and dead-set on killing you (no pun intended). Especially if you were caught off guard. If the cat has a basic picture of human anatomy, it knows where the fleshy places are and what you use to move away from it...

    The bite? Maybe it won't kill you, but cats can typically jump several feet, and are smart enough to climb. It could do some damage with a whole-hearted bite to the throat.


    This is all assuming common housecats aren't, say, Garfield, though.
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    Default Re: A housecat can kill a commoner

    Quote Originally Posted by Another_Poet View Post
    the human can outrun the cat if it does decide to attack
    I don't know about you, but I don't think I could outrun my cat if he was seriously chasing me. Maybe I could now that he's past his prime, but I definitely couldn't when he was younger.
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    Default Re: A housecat can kill a commoner

    I doubt my cat could kill me, but he does some serious (arguably non-lethal) damage to me if he falls asleep on my feet and I disturb him.

    Well, actually, my cat is many years dead, so I suppose it would get some kind of bonus for being undead...
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    Default Re: A housecat can kill a commoner

    in mtg a squirrel (1/1) is stronger than a commoner (0/1) as referenced by sengir autocrat serf tokens.

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    Default Re: A housecat can kill a commoner

    clearly it was a typo and they meant to call the card "Squirrel Girl" instead.

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    Default Re: A housecat can kill a commoner

    Quote Originally Posted by elliott20 View Post
    clearly it was a typo and they meant to call the card "Squirrel Girl" instead.
    Only if it routinely defeats 7/6 cards.... when nobody's looking.
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    Default Re: A housecat can kill a commoner

    Quote Originally Posted by Amesoeurs View Post
    They get feats normally at 1st, 3rd, 6th, etc and if they're humans second at 1st.
    See then the cat should win because it already has four feets by the time a commoner has 1st level.

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    Default Re: A housecat can kill a commoner

    Quote Originally Posted by quick_comment View Post
    How? They both have d4 hit die, and the wizard at least has mage armor.
    By not adventuring and choosing feats such as Skill Focus: Profession (Town Drunk), I assume.

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    Default Re: A housecat can kill a commoner

    Quote Originally Posted by KBF View Post
    Is your cat declawed? I don't think you understand just how scary those things can be, if your cat was brainwashed and dead-set on killing you (no pun intended). Especially if you were caught off guard. If the cat has a basic picture of human anatomy, it knows where the fleshy places are and what you use to move away from it...

    The bite? Maybe it won't kill you, but cats can typically jump several feet, and are smart enough to climb. It could do some damage with a whole-hearted bite to the throat.


    This is all assuming common housecats aren't, say, Garfield, though.
    Excepting the cat actually severing my throat (and the only way it would be able to do that was if I was asleep and even then it is just as likly the wound would be nonfatal, like a bad turn with the razor) a cat would do no more then superficial wounds until basically I tire of it attempting to maul me and I backhand it into the wall. <Hypothetical animal abuse disclaimer>

    It is the point of the dreaded dire housecat. The absurdity that it can be a real threat to a human in DnD.

    Edit: And no, none of my parents cats, including one cat who walked into town and beat up almost a dozen cats for the heck of it, have been declawed (they live on a farm, outdoors cats). I do play rough with some of them now and then, enough for them to do that backpaw multislashing thing they do on prey and bites. Sometimes they manage to break skin. sometimes not.

    And if one gets attacked by a Garfield cat, it wont bother with claws. Just swollowed :D
    Last edited by Khanderas; 2009-06-08 at 03:39 AM.

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    Default Re: A housecat can kill a commoner

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylarra View Post
    in mtg a squirrel (1/1) is stronger than a commoner (0/1) as referenced by sengir autocrat serf tokens.
    That is because squirrels are awesome incarnate. >.>


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    Default Re: A housecat can kill a commoner

    An average cat can run much faster than the fastest human, so running would not have been an option

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    Default Re: A housecat can kill a commoner

    By the same token, almost all hospitalization reports of domesticated or feral house cats, were elderly people, in their 60's and beyond. (at least, of reports that I've located)

    In 3.x, that would equate to a -3 Str, Dex, and Con.

    A standard housecat should not be able to effectively be a serious threat to a commoner, even an unarmed one.

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    Default Re: A housecat can kill a commoner

    Quote Originally Posted by Tengu_temp View Post
    By not adventuring and choosing feats such as Skill Focus: Profession (Town Drunk), I assume.
    I'm tempted to actually do that at some point... But with an actual PC class.

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    Default Re: A housecat can kill a commoner

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylarra View Post
    in mtg a squirrel (1/1) is stronger than a commoner (0/1) as referenced by sengir autocrat serf tokens.
    In fact, one particular squirrel is more powerful than several characters in Magic, including trained warriors. Though those two are admittedly weak.
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