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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: My Experiences as a Truenamer

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyeudo View Post
    You do it the same way you make any other non-standard item: Homebrew. See, we have the origional item itself, which is decidedly non-broken. Then we have the general guideline for grafts (it's not given, but reverse engineering has shown that they stay pretty close to twice the cost of a normal magic item that could do the same thing). Putting the two together gives us the double costed, but unlosable Silver Tongue.

    Depending on which Graft Flesh feats you have access to, I recomend putting it in the Silithar, Warforged, or that other type of construct graft availible (I forget their name), but making a graft from the tongue of a Logokron Devil would work for a Fiendish graft.
    That sounds about right to me. And excellent call on the Logokron Devil thing...fantastic flavor. You graft his tongue, and viola!* +10 enhancement bonus to truespeak checks. Genius.

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  2. - Top - End - #32

    Default Re: My Experiences as a Truenamer

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    It was mostly the opinion of the powergamers/munchkins.
    And mathamaticians.
    Last edited by Pharaoh's Fist; 2009-06-10 at 04:08 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: My Experiences as a Truenamer

    Quote Originally Posted by Pharaoh's Fist View Post
    And mathamaticians.
    I see you point, but consider that an encounter of your level could be even one with more smaller creatures, so more vulnerables to your truespeak.

    Actually, I always see people assume that PCs only face monsters with a CR of their level (and maybe, always 4/day), but this is plain wrong!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    The rogue isn't really using charisma in melee, the rogue is applying Ability Score #6 to his Type-One attacks.
    Quote Originally Posted by ken-do-nim View Post
    DMing is how you turn D&D from a game into a hobby.
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    Players can see a story where there isn't one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    For 4.0? I expect them to whine to the DM until he makes the big bad boogeyman go away.

  4. - Top - End - #34

    Default Re: My Experiences as a Truenamer

    But what if you face monsters of your CR, as the game is wont to do with you?

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: My Experiences as a Truenamer

    I've yet to bother actually looking at the Truenamer yet (I'm still trawling my way through Binder and some of Shadowcaster), so I've yet to form my own opinions on it (though I have heard the bad rep it has). Having said that and having read your low-down on some of the Utterances, it struck me that Strike of Might used in combination with the Keen LCT you mentioned as the alternative to the Fortification one could become a relatively powerful combo, at least at lower levels. Assuming Strike of Might gives a flat bonus to damage, it should multiply with a crit and +10 damage when multiplied even by 2 is enough to drop most creatures with 2HD alone. Add weapon and strength damage and you're looking at a one-hit kill on a 3HD critter (4 or even 5 if you're using a x3 or x4 Crit weapon and/or Power Attack).

    Not, perhaps, an amazing redeeming quality for the Truenamer (as I say, I can't judge, not having looked at it myself), but it just leaped out at me.
    I apologise if I come across daft. I'm a bit like that. I also like a good argument, so please don't take offence if I'm somewhat...forthright.

    Please be aware; when it comes to 5ed D&D, I own Core (1st printing) and SCAG only. All my opinions and rulings are based solely on those, unless otherwise stated. I reserve the right of ignorance of errata or any other source.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: My Experiences as a Truenamer

    Quote Originally Posted by Pharaoh's Fist View Post
    But what if you face monsters of your CR, as the game is wont to do with you?
    Of course, you are right - the class should be prepare to face diffrent kind of encounters. But just to say, you could even have mixed ones - say, a big one and other smaller.

    Not to justify bad class design, anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    The rogue isn't really using charisma in melee, the rogue is applying Ability Score #6 to his Type-One attacks.
    Quote Originally Posted by ken-do-nim View Post
    DMing is how you turn D&D from a game into a hobby.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maroon View Post
    Players can see a story where there isn't one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    For 4.0? I expect them to whine to the DM until he makes the big bad boogeyman go away.

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: My Experiences as a Truenamer

    I've just had a brief look at the Truenamer (and for me that constitutes a fairly thorough read for anyone else) and I have to say; I am completely underwhelmed. The Binder I was neither here nor there on; flavour was quite good, but the limited number of Pacts available turned me off. The Shadowcaster I really like the flavour of, but have yet to decide whether I like the mechanics of it yet. Truenamer though? It's just pap. I like the idea of skill based casting, but making it so incrementally hard to cast is just bizarre and the actual Utterances themselves are just so lucklustre; I see no reason to play one at all. I'd rather play a Sorcerer fluffed as a truenamer; lots of Power Word spells, Still Spell and Eschew Materials (not Silent Spell though). The combo I suggested above doesn't even work because it pretty much specifically says it doesn't in the Strike of Might descriptive text!

    About the only thing I thought there was going for the whole Truename schtick was when I was taking a look at the Prestige Classes; Acolyte of the Ego and Diciple of the Word struck me as possibly being good PrCs (thematically) for a member of the Trancendant Order (Ciphers) from the Planescape setting. That was about it.
    I apologise if I come across daft. I'm a bit like that. I also like a good argument, so please don't take offence if I'm somewhat...forthright.

    Please be aware; when it comes to 5ed D&D, I own Core (1st printing) and SCAG only. All my opinions and rulings are based solely on those, unless otherwise stated. I reserve the right of ignorance of errata or any other source.

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: My Experiences as a Truenamer

    Quote Originally Posted by JellyPooga View Post
    The Shadowcaster I really like the flavour of, but have yet to decide whether I like the mechanics of it yet.
    I see that my gamestyle is different from the usual, but at least in my current campaing, a friend of mine it's playing a Shugenja // Shadowcaster (flavour: "scorpion clan secrets" shugenja" and I found the way shadowcaster casts spells, and the way S applies metashadow quite useful.

    Consider that it's gestalt*, but the campaing (paradox, maybe) it's not so power-level. Anyway, I would give him a chance even in standard campaing.

    Just a note: to make him more interesting, I stated that mysteries are Shadow Wave, so work in some kind of dead magic zone.


    * I mean, with another caster class aside, a Shadowcaster is more durable
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    The rogue isn't really using charisma in melee, the rogue is applying Ability Score #6 to his Type-One attacks.
    Quote Originally Posted by ken-do-nim View Post
    DMing is how you turn D&D from a game into a hobby.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maroon View Post
    Players can see a story where there isn't one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    For 4.0? I expect them to whine to the DM until he makes the big bad boogeyman go away.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: My Experiences as a Truenamer

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiyanwang View Post
    Of course, you are right - the class should be prepare to face diffrent kind of encounters. But just to say, you could even have mixed ones - say, a big one and other smaller.

    Not to justify bad class design, anyway.
    The big issue is that using buffs on your party is DC of a CR-equivalent opponent. That means whenever you wanna heal or buff or so, you'll need to make those checks. So when facing weaker opponents, you can use offensive powers rather well.

    However, when facing equivalent opponents, you'll have trouble affecting the opponent and trouble buffing your team. And when facing a boss monster, you won't be affecting the boss and you'll still have trouble affecting your team. And should you manage the checks, the utterances are still lackluster (as OP states).
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    Default Re: My Experiences as a Truenamer

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    The big issue is that using buffs on your party is DC of a CR-equivalent opponent. That means whenever you wanna heal or buff or so, you'll need to make those checks. So when facing weaker opponents, you can use offensive powers rather well.

    However, when facing equivalent opponents, you'll have trouble affecting the opponent and trouble buffing your team. And when facing a boss monster, you won't be affecting the boss and you'll still have trouble affecting your team. And should you manage the checks, the utterances are still lackluster (as OP states).
    OK ok guys, I tried, but you won. TN must be tweaked a lot to work, it's math.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    The rogue isn't really using charisma in melee, the rogue is applying Ability Score #6 to his Type-One attacks.
    Quote Originally Posted by ken-do-nim View Post
    DMing is how you turn D&D from a game into a hobby.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maroon View Post
    Players can see a story where there isn't one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    For 4.0? I expect them to whine to the DM until he makes the big bad boogeyman go away.

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: My Experiences as a Truenamer

    So, Zaq, any thoughts on some of the other Utterances in the book? Which ones suck and which ones just need dropped a level and what-not?

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    Default Re: My Experiences as a Truenamer

    Thanks for posting this thread. Due to it, the next time I have the chance, I'll play a high level Truenamer. I think the utterances can be very powerful indeed: there are some extremely useful effects, that can't be replicated by, well, nothing. One example of this is Confounding resistance, which gives Evasion and Mettle for 5 rounds, or takes them away from an enemy for no save. Caster lens either improves caster level by 2, or decreases by same, no save. Reversed Breath of Recovery paralyzes for 1 round. Coup de grace, anyone?

    Essense of Lifespark can restore level drain. Magic contraction Empowers all spellcasters spells for 5 rounds, no cost - or alternatively gives SR. Don't get me started on Spell Rebirth. That ability rocks my socks.

    If you can hit the Truespeak DCs, Truenamer is very much worth it, in my opinion. (At least in high levels. 1st level truenamer sucks.)

    EDIT: Has anyone checked the utterance called Ether Reforged? I have no idea what they were smoking when they did that, but it must've been something good. Duration: Instantaneous. Saving Throw: No. From now on, all your allies and you can act without any penalties whatsoever against ethereal creatures. Combine this with the fact that you can jaunt your enemy to the ethereal without a save, you can pretty much insta-win any encounter.

    EDIT 2: Ward of Peace. Seriously, no save?
    Last edited by Adumbration; 2009-06-11 at 04:36 AM.

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    Default Re: My Experiences as a Truenamer

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiyanwang View Post
    I see you point, but consider that an encounter of your level could be even one with more smaller creatures, so more vulnerables to your truespeak.
    Yeah, but if you're fighting low level mooks, there will probably be a lot of them, and the OP said that you can only affect one at once. Basically this means that you'd be outdone by a blaster wizard with a fireball spell, and pretty much everyone agrees that blasting is a poor option. Yet, (at least if I'm reading this right), you are still beaten by them.

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    Default Re: My Experiences as a Truenamer

    Quote Originally Posted by Dagren View Post
    Yeah, but if you're fighting low level mooks, there will probably be a lot of them, and the OP said that you can only affect one at once. Basically this means that you'd be outdone by a blaster wizard with a fireball spell, and pretty much everyone agrees that blasting is a poor option. Yet, (at least if I'm reading this right), you are still beaten by them.
    You are right. Anyway, I already gave up
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    The rogue isn't really using charisma in melee, the rogue is applying Ability Score #6 to his Type-One attacks.
    Quote Originally Posted by ken-do-nim View Post
    DMing is how you turn D&D from a game into a hobby.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maroon View Post
    Players can see a story where there isn't one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    For 4.0? I expect them to whine to the DM until he makes the big bad boogeyman go away.

  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: My Experiences as a Truenamer

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiyanwang View Post
    You are right. Anyway, I already gave up
    Yay! I'm right!

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    Default Re: My Experiences as a Truenamer

    Quote Originally Posted by Dagren View Post
    Yeah, but if you're fighting low level mooks, there will probably be a lot of them, and the OP said that you can only affect one at once. Basically this means that you'd be outdone by a blaster wizard with a fireball spell, and pretty much everyone agrees that blasting is a poor option. Yet, (at least if I'm reading this right), you are still beaten by them.
    Only at low levels. At higher levels you can use Earthquake, or just Gate in something to kill them.

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    Default Re: My Experiences as a Truenamer

    Quote Originally Posted by Dagren View Post
    Yay! I'm right!
    Sometimes happens.

    EDIT: and you feel like you just critted with a mercurial greatsword.
    Last edited by Kaiyanwang; 2009-06-11 at 05:55 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    The rogue isn't really using charisma in melee, the rogue is applying Ability Score #6 to his Type-One attacks.
    Quote Originally Posted by ken-do-nim View Post
    DMing is how you turn D&D from a game into a hobby.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maroon View Post
    Players can see a story where there isn't one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    For 4.0? I expect them to whine to the DM until he makes the big bad boogeyman go away.

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: My Experiences as a Truenamer

    Quote Originally Posted by Adumbration View Post
    EDIT: Has anyone checked the utterance called Ether Reforged? I have no idea what they were smoking when they did that, but it must've been something good. Duration: Instantaneous. Saving Throw: No. From now on, all your allies and you can act without any penalties whatsoever against ethereal creatures. Combine this with the fact that you can jaunt your enemy to the ethereal without a save, you can pretty much insta-win any encounter.
    I'm pretty sure the Instantaneous Duration bit is an error. Allowing everyone you like to see/interact with ethereal creatures forever, with no way to remove it, is not in line at all with other truenaming effects, and an Ethereal Jaunt effect with a duration of instantaneous doesn't even work.

    I've never had the chance to try them, but the Lexicon of the Perfected Map has always looked pretty good to me, especially since they have set Truespeak DCs rather than depending on CR. At level 1, Fog from the Void is (as the OP notes) excellent. Transform the Landscape (level 2) is interesting, although unless it lets you select which areas to make into difficult terrain (the text is unclear) it's probably not as good as Fog. Level 3 gives you a choice between Dimension Lock (albeit with a smaller radius) and Control Winds.

    The level 4 utterances are all quite good—you only get one, at level 20, so they serve as a sort of capstone. They're actually pretty good capstones: Anger the Sleeping Earth emulates Earthquake, which can completely lock down non-spellcasting enemies—and it actually works better in a small radius, since it means you're less likely to hit allies. Deny Passage creates a 20-foot area that people can't move in or out of, no save—although you can let people you like through in either direction. Conjuctive Gate is Gate. One of the best spells in the game even without being abused, without the usual XP cost.

    Really too bad you don't get those until so late.
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  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: My Experiences as a Truenamer

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyeudo View Post
    So, Zaq, any thoughts on some of the other Utterances in the book? Which ones suck and which ones just need dropped a level and what-not?
    Well, I hadn't planned on talking too in-depth about the ones I haven't used in actual play experience (my character actually has all of the ones I went into detail about), but since you asked, I'll give 'em a few comments.

    Just in case it wasn't PERFECTLY CLEAR, all of the following comments are speculation and are not based upon actual play experience, unlike the ones in the second post.

    For first level LEM, Knight's Puissance and Defensive Edge suffer from the same problem: namely, the damned Law of Sequence. If the LoS didn't exist, I could actually see a low-level Truenamer being a valued party buffer/debuffer with these two utterances, especially Knight's Puissance. However, the fact that you can only affect one target at a time... well, it just kills the usefulness.

    Moving right along to second level LEM. Remember that you get your first level 2 LEM at 3rd level. Archer's Eye does not strike me as useful simply because the normal version is too limited (remember, there's no real pre-buffing with Truespeak, one of its many flaws) and the reversed version becomes sharply less useful with level (since Protection from Arrows gives DR/magic). The fact that it ignores ALL concealment is its only saving grace, even though I suspect that this is a result of typical lazy editing (the Truenamer chapter is the worst edited WotC product I have ever seen, aside from arguably the ToB errata. But at least they didn't charge for that.) rather than an intended benefit. Still, this lets you hit invisible things, which is okay. Still situational.

    Perceive the Unseen, as I've mentioned, is underpowered and, like its big brother Vision Sharpened, deserves to be bumped down a level. Concealment is a passable defense comparable to Blur, but I just don't think it's worth the precious utterance slot. The fact that it doesn't mention whether or not it allows hiding is typical poor editing.

    Speed of the Zephyr is actually pretty nice, and I can see a strong argument for taking it. The fact that the speed boost is untyped is very nice, and the penalty from the reversed version does not seem to have a cap, so you could combine it with another speed-reducing effect (perhaps Greater Speed of the Zephyr) and reduce a foe to immobility, or close to it.

    I don't really see the benefit to Silent Caster. I suppose I could see one situation in which it might be useful, namely, since you can (with a 20% failure chance) use Truespeak in an area of Silence, you can let your poor wizard buddy cast in the same area... but if that's not "ridiculously situational" I don't know what is. It's no good for stealth, since you can't silence the initial utterance, so you might as well just cast the spell normally. The reversed utterance is crap, since it lasts for only one round and allows a save anyway.

    Temporal Twist is passable, giving sort of a poor man's Haste, but really, all you're doing is trading one standard action for one attack action, and by the time that would do more than just buffing your melee buddy with Strike of Might, you have Haste. I can see it used on a self-buffing Truenamer gish once you can quicken it, but still, underwhelming. The reverse sucks for the same reason as Silent Caster.

    Third level LEM, available at level 6, has some interesting stuff. Energy Negation is pretty decent for a DoT effect, and energy resistance is never really a bad idea. It's a pity that you can't choose sonic, but it's unlikely that you won't find at least one energy type that will work (and your Knowledge check is high enough that you should know which one to use).

    I frankly don't really see the benefit of Incarnation of Angels... it's cool, but not very useful. (One dirty, dirty trick you can do with it is to abuse the fact that it does NOT specify that the target must be an ally, and it doesn't allow a saving throw. The celestial and fiendish templates grant the extraplanar subtype, so you can hit a foe with this and then use Dismissal on him. Still, that's a dirty trick, and shouldn't really be considered an argument in favor of this utterance.)

    Accelerated Attack is... weird. I really can't decide if it's any good, so I'll refrain from commenting.

    Temporal Spiral is a really great utterance. Giving an ally an extra move action is amazingly useful (if nothing else for setting up charges, but really, the uses are endless). What's more, the reversed version is a great effect IF you can get them to fail their save. Truenamer saving throws tend to be lackluster, but dazed is a nasty condition, and the duration is pretty decent (especially Extended).

    Fourth level LEM, gained at level 10, is where things start getting really nice. Breath of Cleansing doesn't strike me as particularly amazing, and the reversed version is kind of lackluster (nauseated is a nasty condition, yes, but they get a save, and if I'm giving my enemy a save, well, I'd rather take them out of the fight for three rounds with Temporal Spiral than for one round with Breath of Cleansing).

    Caster Lens's usefulness hinges primarily on whether being at a lower caster level prevents an enemy from casting his highest level spells. (For example, a wizard can normally only cast fifth-level spells if he's ninth level, right? If you hit a level 9 wizard with this, does he lose the ability to cast 5th level spells because his caster level is too low?), but the normal version is still nice for boosting really critical Dispel checks, enhancing your cleric or wizard's Morning Buff Routine, or making a psionic character really deadly. (This makes me think that a truenamer would make a good supporter for a psion or other heavy manifester. Since ML is way more important to manifesters than CL is to casters, Caster Lens benefits them greatly, and the ability to grant additional move actions, which a psionic character with Psionic Meditation can use to regain psionic focus, helps them immensely as well...)

    Confounding Resistance seems situational (remember, no pre-buffing!) but really handy.

    Word of Bolstering is situationally useful in normal mode, but underwhelming in reversed mode (yes, no-save ability penalties are nice, but it's still just a PENALTY, thus non-stacking, and it's only 1d6. Ray of Enfeeblement does more damage and has been around from level 1, just for comparison.), and again, the Law of Sequence prevents you from hitting more than one target or even more than one ability.

    Magic Contraction is actually good. Free metamagic is always good stuff. The fact that you're cheerleading for a party member who's already better than you can be a little grating, but still, free Empowers are sexy. The SR option is a double-edged sword, but not totally worthless (just mostly).

    Spell Rebirth is one of the few tricks a Truenamer gets that a wizard absolutely does not, so it's awesome.

    Morale Boost is underwhelming. Frightened is a nasty debuff, but it allows a save and it's mind-affecting. By level 10, this is starting to be a problem.

    Level five LEM, not available before level 14, has a lot that looks cool, but may or may not be as good as advertised. Eldritch Attraction is really cool, and I wish it didn't allow a save. On a Truenamer who focuses on boosting CHA and otherwise pumping save DCs, I can see it being worthwhile, since it's a fairly uncommon trick, but it definitely requires some focus.

    Greater Energy Negation is useful in normal mode (it doesn't specify what kinds of energy you can gain immunity to! You can even gain immunity to force!) but lackluster in reversed mode (20 damage isn't TERRIBLE, but at level 14 I expect a little better, especially since energy resistance will be really common by now. For reference, that's pretty close to the average on 6d6, or rather, a little less).

    Preternatural Clarity is... weird. A floating insight bonus is pretty nice, but again, by level 14, I expect better than a +5. (Moment of Prescience is available next level, for comparison, and kind of blows Preternatural Clarity out of the water, doesn't it?) The confusion effect is lame. Preternatural Clarity belongs around level 3, not level 5.

    Sensory Focus is killed by its short duration (one friggin' round?!)... I mean, it's awesome (True Seeing AND blindsight!), but seriously, ONE ROUND. You basically need to use both Quicken and Extend on this to make it worthwhile, and even then... yeah. Also note that it doesn't actually state how far out the blindsight goes. Typical bad Truenamer editing? Or does it actually go out as far as you can see? Ask your GM. The reversed is your vanilla save-or-suck, nothing special.

    Greater Seek the Sky is very nice, and might actually be worth getting even if you already have Seek the Sky, since you can then chain the two and fly for more than a minute at a time (that's Extended, by the way). Ironically, I'd rather use the reversed Seek the Sky than the reversed Greater version, since the lesser version prevents the target from flying again in any way for 5 rounds, while the greater version just makes them fall.

    Ward of Peace... well, it's pretty nice for a buffer or indirect battlefield controller, actually. The reversed utterance is very situational, since it not only allows a save but also requires concentration (so you're just trading actions, more or less). If you have Swift Concentration, this could be worth it. Even without Swift Conc, I can see it just for the normal version. It's a nice buff. You're by no means invincible, but... it helps.

    Essence of Lifespark is incredibly situational and doesn't seem all that good. Remember, this is level 14. A no-save negative level is nice, but Enervation gives a minimum of one no-save negative level (it requires a touch attack, Lifespark requires a Truespeak roll, so it's a wash there) and has been around for seven levels now, to say nothing of crazy metamagicked versions. The fact that it can restore a lost level, even a drained one, is nice, but so can Restoration, which has been around for as long as Enervation has. Yes, it has a 100gp cost, but it's also not taking up one of the Cleric's precious known slots (quite the opposite, since a Cleric, you know, knows all spells ever). This would be a weak but acceptable level 4, or a slightly powerful level 3. It's an awful level 5.

    Sixth level LEM should theoretically be the cream of the crop, right? You don't get them until 18th level, after all. Pure-class sorcerers have level 9 spells by now. Pure-class martial adepts should have multiple level 9 maneuvers. Pure-class Incarnates have had their Heart binds for a while and are getting their Soul binds soon. I'll be judging these against level 9 spells, powers, maneuvers, whatever.

    Breath of Recovery. Clerics are slinging around Mass Heal by now. In contrast, this spell does basically the same thing as the Cleric spell Panacea. Panacea is level 4. Lame. The reversed version is just another save-or-be-screwed, and we all know that Truenamers aren't good at pumping save DCs. Also, Hold Person can paralyze someone as a level 2 spell, 3 for wizards. Add in a one-round duration and you have a real flop of an utterance.

    Ether Reforged is, well, insane. Can that really be an instantaneous duration? If so, awesome. I don't think it's overpowered (does it really, honestly, truly stand up to Shapechange? Time Stop? Summon Elemental Monolith? GATE?) if so, but it's definitely weird. (If you have a really huge, you-can-find-anything-here-for-the-right-price type city in your campaign, you know, something on the order of Sigil, see if you can buy some scrolls of this! You only need it once per party member, after all!) The reversed version is nice.

    I don't know what they were thinking with Greater Knight's Puissance. +5 on attack and damage? At level 18?! This is a third, MAYBE a weak fourth level utterance. The reversed version is terrible.

    Mystic Rampart, while not nearly as good as it should be, is one of the better level 6 utterances. The DR is negligible by level 18, but a +5 unnamed bonus or penalty on saves is statistically significant. Of course, Superior Resistance lasts 24 hours, gives a +6 on saves (a resistance bonus, granted, but still), and is level 6 (thus around since 11th level), but after Greater Knight's Puissance anything looks good.

    Singular Mind is pretty decent, at least with the normal version. Notice that you do not roll a caster level check; you simply compare the two. This might be good or bad... it's probably bad, in fact, since it's REALLY HARD to boost Truenamer levels, but at least you don't have that chance of rolling a 1. If you can't see why the reversed utterance is completely horrible, I can't help you.

    Moving on to the LCT utterances, Keen Weapon is, well, Keen Edge. It's not horrible, but it's rarely worth the combat action. If you could pre-buff, it'd be useful.

    You can choose Agitate Metal, a level 2, at character level 7. Heat Metal (and Chill Metal, too) is a first level spell. Kind of shameful, really.

    You get your first (oops, I mean your only) third level LCT at character level 11. Rebuild Item is a really, really nice utterance, once again because it's something that a wizard can't do. It's not disappointing. You have to more or less actively go out of your way to use it, but hey, we'll take any unique trick we can get, right?

    Suppress Weapon, on the other hand, is awful. Suppressing the energy-based enhancement of a weapon? That's it? At level 11, that's the best you can do? Oh, and it doesn't even work on energy burst weapon unless you increase the DC? Pfffffft.

    Your fourth level LCT shows up at level 15. Suppress Item would be passable (weak, but passable) if it didn't have that "concentration" duration. As it is, well, it's worse than Dispel Magic. Yes, you have to make a dispel check, but at least you're not trading actions with a goddamn item.

    Transmute Weapon is a little better. Wonky DR comes up more and more frequently at higher levels, so it's not entirely forgettable. Interestingly, you could theoretically turn an enemy's weapon to, oh, say, glass, or maybe common ice, or even arguably paper with this (and then fix it with Rebuild Item if desired).

    You get your fifth level LCT at level 19. Yeah. Ninth level spells have been flying around for two levels by now. What do you get? Well, you can choose to take Seize Item, doing less than what Telekinesis could do. I might take this as a level 2. Maybe.

    Or, you can choose Metamagic Catalyst. Now, normally, anything that gives free metamagic is a win, right? Weeeeeell, stick with the artificer for this one. It only works on potions or scrolls, has a one-round window in which it works, and has a (very small) set list of allowed metamagics. I repeat, you're at level 19.

    I'm almost afraid to delve into the LPM utterances, but I've come this far. You get your first LPM at level 8. Competing with Fog from the Void (read: SOLID FOG!) is... well, there's the confusingly worded Shield of the Landscape, which is... um, vague about what it can actually do for you. (Do your allies AUTOMATICALLY get cover, even if they're standing on a perfectly flat and featureless plain? Do they have to have cover already? Does it move with you? With them? How much cover is it? Can they use it to hide?) I suppose that's about all you can expect from a section they literally forgot to tell you how to do (Remember, the DC for the LPM utterances isn't actually printed in Tome of Magic).

    There's also the first-level psionic power Stomp. Er, I mean, the utterance Shockwave. Which does the exact same thing. At least it targets Fort instead of Reflex... wait, that's not actually a good thing. Yeah, I'm sticking with Solid Fog on this one.

    Second level LPM, which shows up in your arsenal at level 12, has, as usual, three options to choose from. Energy Vortex is a lackluster DoT spell that hurts your allies as much as your enemies... 2d6 per round just doesn't cut it at level 12. It's saveless, but it's not worth your action in combat.

    Speak Rock to Mud is... probably your best bet for your 2nd level LPM, really. At least it's duplicating a spell that's been around for only three levels now. It's unclear if your enemies get a saving throw... if they don't, this is actually pretty decent. If they do, meh.

    Transform the Landscape is hardly worth mentioning. I'd take it before I'd take Energy Vortex, but... seriously, by 12th level, shouldn't you be flying anyway? I guess it can clear a path for your barbarian buddy to charge.

    Third level LPM doesn't come into play until 16th level, one level before 9th level spells hit the table. For those of you inexplicably just joining us, it's a pretty safe bet that they won't measure up to what everyone else has been doing. Lore of the World is, um, lacking. Yeah. I don't have a lot to say about it.

    Master of the Four Winds seems great (not 16th level great, but still) until you remember the fiddly little rule that LPM utterances, unless stated otherwise, have a 20' radius AoE. Which is kind of tiny for Control Winds. You could argue that the whole "like Control Winds" clause gives it the same radius, but the wonderfully clear editing of the Truenamer chapter won't really help you.

    Thwart the Traveler is probably the least bad of them. Dimensional Lock is still handy, even if it's really late.

    Finally, we come to the 4th level LPM. You get this at level 20. This is your capstone. You've slogged through 20 levels of truenamer, no dips, no prestige classes, nothing, and this is your reward. You get to choose one of the following utterances! And, for a change, one of them actually does hold up in power to what you'd expect at 20th level... Conjunctive Gate. Yeah. That's right. Gate without an XP component. This is damned powerful. Still subject to the Law of Sequence, of course, but hey, it's still Gate. I'd expect nothing less at 20th level.

    Well, if you DO want less, you can take Anger the Sleeping Earth. Earthquake, only smaller. Woohoo? I guess? Maybe? Nah.

    Deny Passage is pretty cool, actually. Underpowered for 20th level (Can we get this shifted down to 2nd level? Maybe 3rd?), but a no-save, you-stay-here ability is cool. Can't compare to Gate, but what can?

    Anyway, those are the utterances. I've left aside the Word of Nurturing ones, since I've basically already covered them and they're all pretty much the same. I think Moderate hits the sweet spot in terms of usefulness, but I haven't used any of them other than Lesser and Moderate, so I'm not really sure.

    Does that answer your question?
    Last edited by Zaq; 2009-12-24 at 11:42 PM.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

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  20. - Top - End - #50
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    So...the reason to play this at any level at all is the free Gate? Wow, it's like they weren't even trying, except instead of not trying they reverse tried.

    Maybe this and Shadow Magic is what Tome of Battle is to fighters, for casters...but balancing the other way.
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    Default Re: My Experiences as a Truenamer

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    So...the reason to play this at any level at all is the free Gate? Wow, it's like they weren't even trying, except instead of not trying they reverse tried.

    Maybe this and Shadow Magic is what Tome of Battle is to fighters, for casters...but balancing the other way.
    Thats actually....very true.

    If you replace melee types with ToB, then the martial classes can hold their own against casters for a good range of levels.

    If you replace casters with only ToM types, then the same thing happens.

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    RedWizardGuy

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    Ok, now you have inspired me to go build a Truenamer. Its actually really funny, because of my groups rampant houseruling (Lets do that instead...why? No reason), Truenamers and CW Samarui are actually slightly overpowered

    Truenamer Houserules:
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    1. Law of Resistance is removed.
    2. You get access to LEM at the same rate as casters do, LCT starting two levels later, and LPM two levels after that. You end up getting the final ability at level 11. This isnt really a problem because only two of my campaigns that started at low levels ever got to this point.


    It actually makes them very similar to Warlocks.
    Last edited by Olo Demonsbane; 2009-06-11 at 09:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    So...the reason to play this at any level at all is the free Gate? Wow, it's like they weren't even trying, except instead of not trying they reverse tried.

    Maybe this and Shadow Magic is what Tome of Battle is to fighters, for casters...but balancing the other way.
    It's not all that bad. The utterances in that big post were, for the most part, the utterances I DIDN'T already take. There are some good ones in the second post. While the Truenamer is not powerful at any level, they are at least capable as long as you're not trying to compare them to, you know, real casters.

    Olo, I like those houserules... though to be honest, the Law of Sequence has proven to be a bigger pain in the butt than the Law of Resistance. I wouldn't complain if either were removed, but if I had the choice, I'd much sooner ditch the LoS than the LoR. Becoming less capable throughout the day is a pain, but it doesn't bother me nearly as much as the Law of Sequence does.

    I've added a good bit to the first post; I recommend everyone go check it out.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

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    RedWizardGuy

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    I'll bring that up to my DM, he'll probably agree

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    Default Re: My Experiences as a Truenamer

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    I've added a good bit to the first post; I recommend everyone go check it out.
    Would it have killed you to mark which bits were the new stuff?

    More seriously, how long (as in, to what level) do you intend to continue playing the character? And if it's going to be a while, like "all the way to 20 or even beyond," do you have any plans for further buffing your Truenaming skill? Because while I admire your ingenuity in finding multiple sources to boost your checks, they all appear to be flat buffs - the 2X level scaling on your DCs will leave them behind eventually.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philistine View Post
    even beyond," do you have any plans for further buffing your Truenaming skill? Because while I admire your ingenuity in finding multiple sources to boost your checks, they all appear to be flat buffs - the 2X level scaling on your DCs will leave them behind eventually.
    He's actually far enough ahead of the curve already that he can reliably make a Truespeak check against a level 20 target. Just advancing his Truespeak ranks normally will let him use standard Utterances and probably Extend them; the difficulty is maintaining enough of an edge to Quicken reliably, which is what he's said is the keystone of the power he hopes to extract from being a Truespeaker. For that, I notice he hasn't yet tapped a few reasonably common bonus types- it's pretty easy to acquire generic morale, insight, and luck bonuses to skills, although large ones are fairly rare. This is a case where you might find yourself spending quite a bit of cash for a small bonus, like 20,000 gp for a Luckstone (on the plus side, Luckstones apply to a variety of useful checks.) Or paying out for a couple wands of Heroism for the +2 morale and/or buying some Pearls of Power/Rods of Extend so your party Wizard or Bard can keep it up on you.

    'course, there's always the simple (and reasonably cheap and efficient) way, which is just to advance the Competence item. It can get up to a +30 bonus before it trips the Epic rules, which nicely matches the ground he can expect to lose on the way to CR 20 enemies.

    Or he can find a way to Take 10 on his Truespeak checks, which is effectively the same as finding another +9 unnamed bonus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    Does that answer your question?
    Well much so. Thank you. That will help alot with my homebrewing attempts to badger the Truenamer into line with a Rogue or Psiwarrior in power level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post

    Or he can find a way to Take 10 on his Truespeak checks, which is effectively the same as finding another +9 unnamed bonus.
    1 level dip in Exemplar would suffice. +4 to Truespeak checks, and choose it as your Skill Mastery, and you can now take 10 on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adumbration View Post
    1 level dip in Exemplar would suffice. +4 to Truespeak checks, and choose it as your Skill Mastery, and you can now take 10 on it.
    I don't think you can take 10 in Truespeak without a special ability like Deceive Item for UMD; it's got the clause "you can't Take 10 in Truespeak ever ever". As such doesn't exist, I don't think there is a way to take 10 in Truespeak without homebrew.
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    Default Re: My Experiences as a Truenamer

    Ah, but the Exemplar says you can take 10, and is more specific than the general skill rule. Though if it says "take 10 in stressful situations" instead of "take 10 whenever you want", then we're boinked.
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