Help with 8th or 9th level spells known

[AngelisBlack]

The character will be a battle sorc, so he'll only get 2 of each. I need spells that are versitile and that I can cast as many times as I have slots. I've never played a character with 8th or 9th level slots so I have no idea what to pick from the many good choices there are. I'll be at least LV26 before he gets 9th level slots though, as my progression is looking like:

Pre Epic: Battle Sorcerer 7/Abjurant Champion 5/Ruathar 3/Havoc Mage 5 (if I can talk my dm into allowing fractional bab)

Post Epic: Survivor 5/Battle Sorc or a good spellcasting advancing PrC 2

[Crow]

My Battle Sorcerer used Mind Blank, and Moment of Prescience for her 8th level spells. Time Stop for her 9th (never got around to choosing 2nd 9th level spell).

Moment of Prescience came in very handy a number of times, and Mind-Blank is just a must-have.

[JellyPooga]

Bigby's Clenched Fist (Lvl 8) and Crushing Hand (Lvl 9) are quite useful; a directable Force effect is nothing to be sneezed at, especially when it has an effective Strength of 35.

Summon Monster VIII and IX have obvious merit for the range of things you can summon.

Greater Shadow Evocation(8th) has tremendous versatility inasmuch as it replicates any Evocation spell up to 7th. Shades (9th) similarly except for Conjuration and up to 8th level.

Shapechange (9th) can be game breaking but again allows for a vast amount of versatility for the same reason as Summon Monster, but more so.

That's my Core recommendations. Not, perhaps, the most optimal of choices (with the exception of Shapechange), but for versatility and applicability to most situations that's what I'd choose from.

[Draz74]

Mind Blank is great, but not required. Since it has such a long duration, it probably won't get used often enough to make it a worthy choice for a Sorcerer, unless the whole party wants to get buffed with it every day. (Which is totally possible. But very different from using it on Self Only.) Also consider whether the party Cleric (or Psion) could be doing the same thing, and whether a Third Eye Conceal is likely to be a viable alternative.

Greater Shadow Evocation gets my #1 vote for L8 spells for a Sorcerer. Forcecage, anyone? (Even if it grants a disbelief save ... at least you're avoiding the material component.) Wind Wall, Contingency, Defenestrating Sphere, Sending, Howling Chain, Prismatic Eye. All available as different applications of your L8 spell slots.

[krko]

Post Epic: Survivor 5

Survivor? Really? Isn't that the PRC that the commoner qualifies for at first level? From savage species? known as one of the weakest PRC's ever? Unless your character concept really depends on it I suggest you drop it and go spellsword or swordsage/jade phoenix mage or a full casting class.

As for 9th level spells you can't go wrong with time stop, shapechange, gate (but watch out for the exp cost), maw of chaos, or prismatic sphere. I second MoP and greater shadow conjuration for 8th level.

[Draz74]

Oooh, yes. Maw of Chaos -- what Meteor Swarm should have been. A blasting spell that's actually worthy of a 9th-level spell slot.

[AngelisBlack]

survivor looses its sting at epic levels with fixed bab & saves. Imroved evasion, uncanny dodge and damage reduction 5/- in 5 levels. By the way, what about prismatic sphere?

[Draz74]

survivor looses its sting at epic levels with fixed bab & saves. Imroved evasion, uncanny dodge and damage reduction 5/- in 5 levels.

Still probably better to save it until after you have 20th-level spellcasting. Then you can take Survivor without losing nearly as much (as long as you keep up your skills that advance Epic Spellcasting abilities).

By the way, what about prismatic sphere?

It's powerful, but being defensive automatically also means it's situational. Unless you're generally getting into battles where you're desperately defending yourself (which is not a good situation), I think a lot of the time you'll find that you don't use all of your 9th level spell slots if Prismatic Sphere is your only (or main) 9th-level spell.

By the way, another thing to consider: If you have any save-or-suck spells at all, and you take the Heighten Spell feat, then you will always have more than enough ways to use your high-level spell slots, regardless of what Spells Known you pick at those levels.

[AngelisBlack]

Thanks, perhaps it would be useful to write down my spell list for you guys so you know what I have so far.

0th-Nothing important, one custom made contraceptive cantrip
1st- Shield, Lesser Acid Orb, Magic Missile, Burning Rage
2nd- Shatter, Mirror Image, Rainbow Beam (killer with split ray), resist energy
3rd- Fly, Ferocity of Sanguine Rage, Dispel Magic
4th-Wings of Flurry, Ruin Delver's Fortune, Greater Invisibility
5th- Arcane Fusion, Teleport, (undecided spell known)
6th- Disintegrage and Antimagic Field (or Bite of the Weretiger, I know wherebear is more powerful but it fits the character's theme and history better)
7th- Arcane Spellsurge, (undecided spell known)

From your suggestions I have the following recomendations for my future spells known.

8th- Mind Blank, Shadow Evocation (it can replicate contingency, which is always cool, and forcecage)(if not shadow evocation, then Undying Master of the Elements)

9th- Maw of Chaos (18+d6/18+ rounds is awesome unless I'm fighting a balor), Time Stop

[krko]

The good thing about prismatic sphere is that it's a unique effect. For killing stuff you can always metamagic some low level spell to kill stuff. But there's no low level spell that can replicate the sphere. The same thing goes for time stop.

[Xyk]

For sorcerers I am a fan of the sphere of ultimate destruction. For 3 reasons.

1. Kickass name.
2. Like 40d6 damage to multiple targets per turn
3. As a sorcerer you can use it plenty of times.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

8th: Moment of Prescience and Superior Invisibility
9th: Iceberg (Frostburn) and the other choice really depends on your style.

Note that many of your 7th-9th level spell slots should be spent on lower level Persistent spells, such as Shield, Swift Expeditious Retreat, Bladeweave, Wraithstrike, Swift Fly, Displacement, etc. Take Rapid Metamagic and Quicken Spell and those higher level spell slots can also be used for mid-level spells without sacrificing your full attack.

[AngelisBlack]

8th: Moment of Prescience and Superior Invisibility
9th: Iceberg (Frostburn) and the other choice really depends on your style.

Note that many of your 7th-9th level spell slots should be spent on lower level Persistent spells, such as Shield, Swift Expeditious Retreat, Bladeweave, Wraithstrike, Swift Fly, Displacement, etc. Take Rapid Metamagic and Quicken Spell and those higher level spell slots can also be used for mid-level spells without sacrificing your full attack.

Let's assume that I won't be allowed to cheese it up with persistent spell. Also not taking rapid metamagic or quicken spell as arcane spellsurge serves the same purpose & can combo with arcane fusion. I was inrigued by your choice of superior invisibiliy though. Why is it better than improved?

[Eldariel]

Let's assume that I won't be allowed to cheese it up with persistent spell. Also not taking rapid metamagic or quicken spell as arcane spellsurge serves the same purpose & can combo with arcane fusion. I was inrigued by your choice of superior invisibiliy though. Why is it better than improved?

Heh, Superior Invisibility is so insane it's not even funny. Not only does it make you invisible, it also cloaks you from:
Blindsight, Blindsense, Tremorsense and any other auxillary form of detection. In addition, See Invisibility and Glitterdust are useless against it. Only True Seeing works.

[Mooch]

where is superior invisibility from?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Let's assume that I won't be allowed to cheese it up with persistent spell. Also not taking rapid metamagic or quicken spell as arcane spellsurge serves the same purpose & can combo with arcane fusion. I was inrigued by your choice of superior invisibiliy though. Why is it better than improved?

Persistent Spell all by itself is not cheese, adding it to spells via Divine Metamagic or Incantatrix without increasing the spell level/slot is. Spending a 7th level spell slot to make a 1st level spell last all day is exactly as the feat was intended to be used. Same goes for spending an 8th level slot to make a 2nd level spell last all day, or a 9th level slot to make a 3rd level spell last all day. This is exactly how Persistent Spell was intended to be used, it is what the feat was playtested for, and it's just as far from cheese as a Fighter taking Weapon Specialization, this is how the designers have intended for the game to work. I would even say taking Practical Metamagic from Races of the Dragon to reduce its cost by one isn't even cheese, since Sorcerers are flavored to be better at metamagic than other spellcasters. In that case, you can make 4th level spells like Thunderlance and Greater Mirror Image last all day as well.

Superior Invisibility is exactly that: a version of invisibility that is superior to all others. It blocks you from every sense but touch, you cannot be heard, seen, or smelled, you cannot be detected by blindsight, blindsense, or tremorsense, and you are immune to detection by see invisibility, faerie fire, glitterdust, invisibility purge, and dust of appearance. True Seeing, Lifesense, Mindsight, and mundane failings like leaving footprints are the only means by which you can be detected with this spell active.

I would be sure to pick up Ironguard as well, at 7th level.

Edit: Superior Invisibility is in Spell Compendium, it may have been printed in one of the Completes before that.