4E Desert Wind Swordsage.

[AstralFire]

I'm getting back into DMing, and I can say at the current time that I am not planning on running a 3E game again; I was getting rather dissatisfied with the system.

So! Getting into 4E, but I have never played it and only had minimal playtesting before I fell off the wagon. Best way for me to learn a system is by trying to build something interesting to me. Right now, I want to play something like a Desert Wind Swordsage; using PHBs I and II, where should I be looking most?

[Catch]

I'd suggest either a Brutal Scoundrel Rogue or a TWF Ranger. Both are melee strikers with decent clout, the difference being personal taste.

[AstralFire]

I should say now that I'm speaking thematically to the 'fire and mobility' aspects, so I'd want to be able to commonly deal Radiant or Fire damage, hence my question; I'm sure that for the other disciplines, you'll find an easier match with Rogue and Ranger. Anyway, thanks and I'll give that a look.

[NecroRebel]

If you can get your hands on the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide, you could also try Assault Swordmage. Assaultmages are more strikery than their Shielding counterparts, with significantly more sources of bonus damage. Many Str-secondary powers (and thus Assault powers) deal with fire and mobility, both areas which AFAIK the Desert Wind disciplines favor.

With just the PHBs, it'll be difficult due to the relatively small number of supernatural-style melee combatants, and most of those that have supernatural powers (Warden and Paladin) don't favor the mobility that Swordsages possess. If you're truly limited to those, I would recommend TWF Ranger for the reasons Catch cited.

[AstralFire]

I actually do have that one at my disposal as well. I was kind of mentally including it in PHB2 for some weird reason, probably because I haven't actually opened that book up yet. Thanks.

[NecroRebel]

I actually do have that one at my disposal as well. I was kind of mentally including it in PHB2 for some weird reason, probably because I haven't actually opened that book up yet. Thanks.

Well then, you should have a relatively easy time building it

There are a lot more teleportation-style powers in Arcane Power, but you should be able to manage a decently mobile fighter with just the powers in FRPG.

[Xallace]

I second your fire-themed assault swordmage. I don't remember what Desert Wind's associated weapons were- if scimitar was one, then I'd say that oughta be your weapon of choice (needing a blade and all).

[Mando Knight]

And not quite out of left field for this is Paladin Multiclass. There are plenty of Strength-based Radiant powers for Paladins, as well as a few teleportation powers geared towards getting your ally away from the guy with a pointed stick or you closer to him.

[AstralFire]

I'm kind of intentionally throttling the books I'm using; part of my attraction to 4E is that it looks like I really have to use a lot fewer books to represent the same amount of concepts. Honestly, even most of PHB2 seems extraneous. Having to lug around... XPH, PHB I, PHB II, ToB, Spell Comp, DMG, Complete War/Arc/Adv/Div in addition to my Eberron books or homebrew notes got tiresome. Are there any you'd recommend as absolutely essential towards representation of concepts?

[Gralamin]

You'd probably want the Sword of Assault Paragon Path from Arcane power (Which you appear not to have), or, failing that, I'd suggest going Fire-soul Gensai and going into their paragon Path.

Arcane Power would be a good investment if you want to play this character, since Assault Swordmages are known for being a bit weak. Arcane power helps them out a bit.

Edit:

I'm kind of intentionally throttling the books I'm using; part of my attraction to 4E is that it looks like I really have to use a lot fewer books to represent the same amount of concepts. Honestly, even most of PHB2 seems extraneous. Having to lug around... XPH, PHB I, PHB II, ToB, Spell Comp, DMG, Complete War/Arc/Adv/Div in addition to my Eberron books or homebrew notes got tiresome. Are there any you'd recommend as absolutely essential towards representation of concepts?

The Power series are basically the Complete books, and have been a great investment for me.

[AstralFire]

You'd probably want the Sword of Assault Paragon Path from Arcane power (Which you appear not to have), or, failing that, I'd suggest going Fire-soul Gensai and going into their paragon Path.

Arcane Power would be a good investment if you want to play this character, since Assault Swordmages are known for being a bit weak. Arcane power helps them out a bit.

Are we talking "Core Fighter against a Dragon weak" or "Bard/Desert Wind Swordsage" weak, speaking in 3E terms? Honestly, balance doesn't concern me too much as long as it's not too blatant. For example, Soulknives didn't (IMO) effectively represent their concept since they were nearly unusable at their role compared to commonly available/easily playable versions of every other character class. By contrast, I felt a Barbarian represented their own concept fine, since they required minimal work to get usable.

Basically am asking what books I need to be certain I've covered most all of the popular roles without requiring a player to screw themselves over.

[Gralamin]

Not nearly as weak as a soulknife or a core fighter, just a lot weaker then most other things in 4e.

[AstralFire]

Not nearly as weak as a soulknife or a core fighter, just a lot weaker then most other things in 4e.

Then that means its within the realm of 'DM can slap a higher number on something if it needs fixin'', which is good enough for me. Cheers! Thanks for all the help.

[RTGoodman]

Don't know if you've made up your mind, but you could actually make a pretty good Desert Wind Swordsage using, well, just the two PHBs.

Basically, choose whatever race you want, but Charisma is your main stat. Dexterity or Strength is your secondary.

The class you want is Sorcerer. If your Swordsage would use a dagger, you're all set, since Sorcerers are designed to cast through daggers right out of the box. If you want to use a bigger weapon, just pick up a neat little feat called Arcane Implement Proficiency. Basically, it lets you use ANYTHING (any kind of weapon, wand, orb, whatever) as your casting implement. Choose Heavy Blades (i.e., swords), and you're all set!

After that, your options are pretty open. If you go the dagger approach, there's a feat to let you cast Sorcerer RANGED spells through your dagger at melee ranger. If you, you can multiclass to Paladin to use some fire and radiant WEAPON powers through your sword.

You'd definitely play as a striker and could even multiclass to Warlock for more fire and Swordsage-y abilities if you went with a dagger, though you'd have to use AIP to use your daggers with Warlock powers).

[Artanis]

Are we talking "Core Fighter against a Dragon weak" or "Bard/Desert Wind Swordsage" weak, speaking in 3E terms? Honestly, balance doesn't concern me too much as long as it's not too blatant. For example, Soulknives didn't (IMO) effectively represent their concept since they were nearly unusable at their role compared to commonly available/easily playable versions of every other character class. By contrast, I felt a Barbarian represented their own concept fine, since they required minimal work to get usable.

Basically am asking what books I need to be certain I've covered most all of the popular roles without requiring a player to screw themselves over.

They aren't Soulknife weak, but Assault Swordmages do fit your description of the Soulknife: unable to do their job. Assault Swordmages rely on dealing damage to do their job, but Swordmages' damage output SUCKS. That leads to them pretty much sucking at their job.

Arcane Power might change that, but I'm not familiar enough with the book to judge whether it does or not.

Otherwise though, the Swordmage does fit the fire and mobility theme you want. And Shielding Swordmages are very, very good at what they do.

[NPCMook]

I actually enjoy the Hybrid Rules they've released for Characters... So reading I decided to try building on your idea of a Fire/Radiant character, thus I made a Paladin|Swordmage

Spoiler

Show

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======
level 1
Genasi, Paladin|Swordmage
Hybrid Paladin: Hybrid Paladin Fortitude
Swordmage Aegis (Hybrid): Aegis of Assault
Hybrid Talent: Swordmage Warding

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 11, Dex 10, Int 18, Wis 13, Cha 8.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 11, Dex 10, Int 16, Wis 13, Cha 8.


AC: 19 Fort: 15 Reflex: 14 Will: 12
HP: 25 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 6

TRAINED SKILLS
Heal +6, Arcana +9, Intimidate +4

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics, Bluff -1, Diplomacy -1, Dungeoneering +1, Endurance +2, History +4, Insight +1, Nature +3, Perception +1, Religion +4, Stealth, Streetwise -1, Thievery, Athletics +4

FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent

POWERS
Hybrid Paladin at-will 1: Holy Strike
Hybrid Swordmage at-will 1: Greenflame Blade
Hybrid daily 1: Burning Blade
Hybrid encounter 1: Flame Cyclone

ITEMS
Leather Armor, Adventurer's Kit, Longsword
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======

While your off-hand is empty you gain a +3 AC, I know Paladin and Swordmage is an awkward Combo, but I think it works in this case. Level 2, I would take the Focused Expertise Feat for whatever One-handed Heavy Blade you choose.

Weapon choices are of course whatever you wish, Bastard Sword*, Broadsword, Kopesh, Longsword, Scimitar.

[Burley]

Now... Maybe I'm just batting at wild geese in left field here, but um... Avenger? Mobility, weapons, deals Radiant damage all over the place.
If I recall correctly, Desert Wind focused on taking down a big guy, or seperating large groups into smaller groups. Well, that is what the Avenger is all about. The fluff is pretty easy to tweak and whatnot.

Really, it's pretty good.

[Tengu_temp]

They aren't Soulknife weak, but Assault Swordmages do fit your description of the Soulknife: unable to do their job. Assault Swordmages rely on dealing damage to do their job, but Swordmages' damage output SUCKS. That leads to them pretty much sucking at their job.

I disagree. An assault swordmage's job is discouraging enemies from attacking his allies by threatening to hit then with Aegis of Assault if they do that - which has the potential to be more damaging than a fighter's Combat Challenge, seeing that fighters can use only basic melee attack with it but assault swordmages can use a wide variety of encounter powers.

[Sir_Mopalot]

I'm confused. It seems to me that a Censure of Pursuit Avenger would work very well for this, while staying within the PHBs. I don't have FRPG, but unless I'm missing something, the Avenger seems just about perfect mobility-wise, it has a lot of powers that deal radiant damage, and I'm sure you could deal fire damage if you tried hard enough.

[Artanis]

I disagree. An assault swordmage's job is discouraging enemies from attacking his allies by threatening to hit then with Aegis of Assault if they do that - which has the potential to be more damaging than a fighter's Combat Challenge, seeing that fighters can use only basic melee attack with it but assault swordmages can use a wide variety of encounter powers.

They can do so now, yes. I specified that pre-AP Assault Swordmages were that way, but that I was unfamiliar with how much they were improved by Arcane Power.

[Burley]

I'm confused. It seems to me that a Censure of Pursuit Avenger would work very well for this, while staying within the PHBs. I don't have FRPG, but unless I'm missing something, the Avenger seems just about perfect mobility-wise, it has a lot of powers that deal radiant damage, and I'm sure you could deal fire damage if you tried hard enough.

Is there an echo in here?

Yes. Like I said, Avenger fits into the OP's budget quite well.