Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DeathQuaker's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Gender
    Female

    Default Pathfinder's Latest Preview: Cleric

    I know not everyone here is interested in Pathfinder, so if you don't like it, that's fine. You don't have to read this.

    For those of you who are interested, they've put up a preview of their iconic cleric (the latest in a line of previews), created with the FINAL, not beta rules here:

    http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lacj

    Summary of changes and my thoughts on them:

    - Change to Domains -- they've gone back to a "special ability + gain spells every level" paradigm. While this eliminates the more unique nature of BETA's domains with various Su and Sp abilities (making domains feel more like innate powers), this brings back way more backwards compatibility and is simpler to track. It looks like your special ability may improve as you get higher in level, which is a good thing--I like innate abilities that improve as you get more powerful.

    - Channel Energy tweaked so it either damages undead OR heals living creatures in a radius (I think this was to make the ability less abusable). A Turn Undead feat allows you to spend a Channel Energy attempt to scare undead away.

    - Casting on the Defensive notably changed -- it is now a "concentration" (in name only) check at 1d20+Caster Level+Spellcasting Ability Modifier (so for Clerics, 1d20+CL+Wis Bonus), at a DC of 15 + DOUBLE the spell's level. They have intentionally made casting on the defensive more difficult to do, with the intention of making some spellcasting tricks less abusable.

    This particular change seems controversial (if you read the thread in their message boards on it), but I personally like it. It reminds me of 2nd Ed AD&D where if someone was able to attack you while you were in the middle of casting, your spell fizzled, forcing spellcasters to stay out of combat range (and thus helping give meleers their own place to shine). There were problems with this idea, but it did certainly help curtail the absolute power casters tend to have at high levels. The original AOO-while-casting-in-reach was meant to reflect/continue this concept, but it was always waaaay too easy to overcome. This makes casting in combat way more difficult, but still gives you a chance to defend yourself.

    And at least it still takes Constitution out of the equation.

    - Some spell changes: Death Ward is now a bonus to saves, not blanket protection; Divine Power still gives notable melee boosts but doesn't instantly make a cleric exceed a fighter's capabilities with one spell). Remove Curse requires a Caster Level check to succeed (not sure if I like this).

    Any thoughts? If you don't like the changes, how would you have done it instead?
    And the best thing you ever done for me is to help me take my life less seriously. It's only life, after all.
    - Emily Saliers, "Closer to Fine"

    LGBTitP

    Blog: http://deathquaker.livejournal.com
    Seldom updated Website: http://www.deathquaker.org

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Doc Roc's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Pathfinder's Latest Preview: Cleric

    Any indication of the current state of polymorph?
    Lagren: I took Livers Need Not Apply, only reflavoured.
    DocRoc: to?
    Lagren: So whenever Harry wisecracks, he regains HP.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DeathQuaker's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Pathfinder's Latest Preview: Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Tidesinger View Post
    Any indication of the current state of polymorph?
    They wouldn't have that in the cleric preview, and it's not covered in the Sorcerer preview (http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5labs).

    They haven't previewed the Wizard yet, which I imagine if they are going to talk about it before release, it will be then. Or possibly when/if they preview the Druid.

    Otherwise, as far as I know, until proven otherwise, it's still broken down into the various other shapeshifting spells (Form of the Dragon, etc.). My guess is that they'll probably keep it like that, though they may tweak the actual gains you get from the spell.
    And the best thing you ever done for me is to help me take my life less seriously. It's only life, after all.
    - Emily Saliers, "Closer to Fine"

    LGBTitP

    Blog: http://deathquaker.livejournal.com
    Seldom updated Website: http://www.deathquaker.org

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Matthew's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Kanagawa, Japan
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Pathfinder's Latest Preview: Cleric

    Sounds interesting; I am glad that they have addressed the concentration check rule, though I still personally prefer the AD&D implementation. Also happy to see they have taken a look at Divine Power, though it is not clear to me yet whether it has been toned down sufficiently.
    It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

    – Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2007

    Default Re: Pathfinder's Latest Preview: Cleric

    It's been toned down to the point of near-uselessness, if you have the ability to make round/level spells last at all. If you don't, you're still better off buffing and destroying enemies like a real caster.

    We'd already houseruled the domain system back to the 3.5 version (without bonus spell slots) in my Pathfinder/Tome hybrid, so it's kind of nice that they're figuring these things out.

    Not sure about the defensive casting change, as it seems likely to hurt the divine casters (who have already been dramatically nerfed, if perhaps not enough) much more than it hurts arcane casters (who got, if anything, a power increase compared to 3.5).

    Compared to the horrifying pile of failure that was the iconic fighter and ranger, the cleric is certainly doing okay.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Starbuck_II's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Enterprise, Alabama
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Pathfinder's Latest Preview: Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathQuaker View Post

    - Casting on the Defensive notably changed -- it is now a "concentration" (in name only) check at 1d20+Caster Level+Spellcasting Ability Modifier (so for Clerics, 1d20+CL+Wis Bonus), at a DC of 15 + DOUBLE the spell's level. They have intentionally made casting on the defensive more difficult to do, with the intention of making some spellcasting tricks less abusable.
    So we are back to 5 foot step away then cast.
    Defensive casting was always a last resort.
    - Some spell changes: Death Ward is now a bonus to saves, not blanket protection.
    So it has no benefit to Enervation and spells /effects that have no save like Energy Drain (Vampires). Death Ward becomes useless for protection.

    It is now a flu vaccine instead of a preventive cure.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Fixer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Tallahassee, Florida

    Default Re: Pathfinder's Latest Preview: Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
    So it has no benefit to Enervation and spells /effects that have no save like Energy Drain (Vampires). Death Ward becomes useless for protection.
    If you go read the article, it also specifies it grants a save for such spells that normally do not allow one.
    The easy I do before breakfast,
    The difficult I do all day long,
    The impossible achieved during the workweek,
    Miracles performed when possible.
    People call me the Fixer,
    and I am here to help you.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Fixer's Guide to Neutrality
    Fixer's Fighter Fix
    (Campaign) Characters:
    Searching For... Goldenrod
    Survival... Gelder

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Starbuck_II's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Enterprise, Alabama
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Pathfinder's Latest Preview: Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Fixer View Post
    If you go read the article, it also specifies it grants a save for such spells that normally do not allow one.
    Missed that sentence while reading it. Also lets you suppresses negative level penalties while active (still need restoration after spell duration).

    So that is pretty nice though still weaker.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Soviet Canuckistan

    Default Re: Pathfinder's Latest Preview: Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
    So we are back to 5 foot step away then cast.
    Defensive casting was always a last resort.
    They now have feats that allow enemies to follow you when you do this. Could make a big difference.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Troll in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Bristol, UK

    Default Re: Pathfinder's Latest Preview: Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
    Missed that sentence while reading it. Also lets you suppresses negative level penalties while active (still need restoration after spell duration).

    So that is pretty nice though still weaker.
    It's a good idea though.

    As long as the benefits of the spell are a guaranteed better-than-even chance of surviving those spells, it's doing its job.

    Death Ward is one of those spells in the same boat as things like Delay Poison, Paladin Immunity to Fear, Venom Immunity and the like.

    Unneccessary absolutes do much more harm than good.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •