Dear 3.5

[Starsinger]

Dear 3.5,
How have you been? It's been about a year now, since I left you for your brother, 4e, and longer since the two of us actually did anything together. I wish it hadn't ended between us the way it did, but your brother just treats me better than you did. Towards the end of our time together there was a lot of anger and frustration, emotions I'd felt for a while, but finally had the nerve to bring up in words.

When we first got together, everything seemed great, we were both kind of young and things seemed so simple. But people change, both of us did over the years. And as I got older, I heard things about you, things that I never noticed before that bugged me. Things like how you treated casters and non-casters totally differently, or how you only paid lip service to things that I enjoy, like healing people or casting spells that do damage. And at first I didn't believe people, I thought they were just jealous of the fun we had together and were trying to hurt my opinion of you. But I did some research, snooping around beyond what you told me up front, and I realized they were right.

And then you got fat and bloated. There came to be so much of you that I could barely recognize the 3.5 I knew. People assured me that underneath the frankly grotesque amount of bulk you put on, you were still the same. But the fact is you changed, instead of fixing what I didn't like about you, you continued on in the direction you headed.

And so I spent as little time with you as possible near the end, sure I talked with other people about you, and I tried to act like I still liked you, but my heart wasn't in it anymore. And then your brother came out and things were different. With your brother most of the things I didn't like about you were gone, and the things that you had in common, were toned down and easier to handle. I mean sure, when I spend time with 4e, I sometimes think about you, I mean you do share a familiar resemblance to one another, which brings me to the point of this letter...

I know that things will never be the same between us, but when I hear how much fun some of my friends have with you, I think you might be a cool guy, and I try, I've tried more than a few times to show up with some of my friends and spend time with you, but the old wounds open up whenever I try. I want to spend time with you again, somewhere... I just can't figure out how.

I wish you all the best until I figure out how to be friends with you again,
Sincerely,
Starsinger

tl;dr- I want to play 3.5 again, give me suggestions on how to enjoy it.

[Indon]

The impression I get is that you disliked playing extra-core materials. So... play in a core-only game?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Houserule/homebrew. Import the good things from 4.x and combine them with the 3.5 base. Tell your players 'Don't be Jerks'. Use ToB to balance non-casters and Casters. I've generally avoided the 3.5 problems, so I can't be more helpful than that, but that should get you started.

[Timberboar]

The impression I get is that you disliked playing extra-core materials. So... play in a core-only game?

This. Except... well, sneak in the Book of Nine Swords. :)

[Shirani]

The impression I get is that you disliked playing extra-core materials. So... play in a core-only game?

That will only aggravate the problem further..

[Belobog]

4e and 3.5 have some rather irreconcilable differences, and it'd take a large retooling of either system to really capture some of the feel of either. Assuming that you're doing this to play with friends who like 3.5 better, then you'd have to convince them to make some changes...which, if they're perfectly happy with the old system, might be difficult.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

4e and 3.5 have some rather irreconcilable differences, and it'd take a large retooling of either system to really capture some of the feel of either. Assuming that you're doing this to play with friends who like 3.5 better, then you'd have to convince them to make some changes...which, if they're perfectly happy with the old system, might be difficult.

Depends on the changes. The 4.x trap mechanics, for example, are one of the few things it has that are superior in every way. Stealing them is perfectly reasonable.

[Doc Roc]

:: thoughtful gesture :: It depends on what power level you like.

I've had a lot of fun with
Core - Prepared casters + psionics

- wilder + complete series - erudite

+Full BAB monk - Io7v + ToB - timestop, gate, and the polymorph line


- Cha dependency for paladins + Sword of the Arcane Order as a bonus feat.

[KIDS]

This was quite inspiring. Nice letter and very precise as well :)

[erikun]

Heh, I think your avatar of Rosalina is quite fitting for the message.

Anyways, Tidesinger makes a few good points. Core + Tome of Battle covers most problems, leaving you only a few broken spells (and some other issues) that need fixing. Adding the Complete line gives you more work, but greatly increases variety.

Psionics feels like a self-contained "fixed" system to me, which is one of the reasons I like it.

Move over to a less broken system. I've heard good things about Pathfinder, and the homebrew forum has some very good 3.5e fixes.

Switch to d20 Modern.

Switch to Muntants and Masterminds.

[Tequila Sunrise]

Wow, I never knew it was possible to combine D&D with the Lifetime channel.

tl;dr- I want to play 3.5 again, give me suggestions on how to enjoy it.

I suggest copious amounts of house ruling.

[FMArthur]

Depends on the changes. The 4.x trap mechanics, for example, are one of the few things it has that are superior in every way. Stealing them is perfectly reasonable.

Why are people saying 4.x? Is there already a derivative system of 4e that needs accounting for?

[Tokiko Mima]

How about trying to do something 4e doesn't do well, like play an exotic monster race, gestalt class, alternate casting system, or an involved multiclass? Sometimes exploring the limitations of a system can help to spark an interest in a different ruleset.

[Mando Knight]

Why are people saying 4.x? Is there already a derivative system of 4e that needs accounting for?

I've also seen it called "4.0" when there isn't an official patch or update that calls it 4.1 or anything.

Unless of course you want to call the 4E core-1 (PHB, DMG, MM) books as originally printed "4.0," core-1 + Adventurer's Vault + Updates "4.01," etc. ...

On gestalt: PHB 3 will have hybrid rules, which will allow gestalt-type characters without having to rebalance the entire encounter structure to account for them. Exotic monsters simply don't have racial stats yet. You could probably make rules for them, but they wouldn't exactly be balanced unless you were careful. (I'd suggest using a "hybrid monster" class to be mixed with the hybrid version of a normal class when using monsters that aren't normally suited for PCs, like true dragons)

[The Mentalist]

E6 sounds like it would fit the bill.

[Oblivious]

You could try Pathfinder. If nothing else, the feat list they put out is more extensive than 3.5 core but still self-contained and relatively balanced.

[Maerok]

PHB 3 will have...

Well, I think I'm sticking with 3.5 for a while.

If you're spiteful: ToM for spellcasters and ToB for non-casters.

[Crow]

The way it read to me was that spending time reading about the game on the internet ruined it for you. It sounds like you didn't have many problems with the system at all, until "other people" ruined it for you.

Seriously dude, what was the point of this? It seems like you have everything you need to enjoy the game, so just get a group together and play some simple adventures. Nothing too complicated, just fun!

[Mando Knight]

Well, I think I'm sticking with 3.5 for a while.

Valid. Especially if you've sunk cash into it already.

Check with 4E in a couple of years, and it might be as mature (i.e. capable of representing a variety of concepts) a system as 3.5.

[shmeck]

Dear 4e,
I'm not really sure why I'm writing this, since we never got to know each other too well. In the end you were so vanilla that there just wasn't enough about you to keep me interested.

At first I was really excited to get to know you. A lot of people told me great things about you and built you up to me. And it's true, you have a lot of great qualities and they make a lot of things go way more smoothly than with that wild sister of yours.

But over time I just.. lost interest. I think it's because every time we hung out it would be more of the same. You had this need to make everything "fair" and maintain all this "balance", which is cool for people with control issues who obsess over that sort of thing, but for me it was.. well.. *boring*. With you, everything fits into a nice neat little box, which just isn't very sexy.

Your sister 3.5 is so fun & quirky & unpredictable, it feels way more like real life with her & less like a video game. And she knows all these big words and she has all these interesting secrets, it's like I'm always discovering something new.

And when the lights get low I always feel like anything can happen with her and she makes me feel like I can do anything I want. You were always so predictable. *yawn*

To be honest, it seemed like you aren't really interested in me and what I like so much as you're interested in making a quick buck off me. I can get everything that matters about your sister 3.5 for *free* because she understands that money can't buy love and the best things are free. But you always charge, & you never give anything away.

Good luck with that.

Sincerely,
Shmeck

[Mystic Muse]

dear 4.0

at first I liked you. I thought you were fun and easy enough to understand that I could have fun playing with you. at first you were fun. however after a while I realized that what people said about you was true. during that time I was also playing with your rival 3.5

3.5 had her own problems. however the thing was with her she could change more easily and not feel like you lost so much. she had more variety and while I could rely on her to be how she was normally she could also change and show me a different world.

I'm glad I still get to spend time with you. the only problem is you're more predictable and while your rival may be long winded you take much too long to get things done. I promise to keep playing with you until my DM decides to change to 3.5 again. when that time comesSAYONARA SUCKA!

actually it's not THAT bad

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Why are people saying 4.x? Is there already a derivative system of 4e that needs accounting for?

No, but there will be. This is just getting everyone used to the idea.

[Doc Roc]

How about this? I'll run you a one-off or two.

[Pronounceable]

The way it read to me was that spending time reading about the game on the internet ruined it for you. It sounds like you didn't have many problems with the system at all, until "other people" ruined it for you.

I'm gonna quote this.

You also sound like you'd prefer a tweaked ADnD.

[Doc Roc]

I'm gonna quote this.

I had a bit of a rant here about how I didn't think it was fair to suggest that CO ruined the game. I've deleted it as it occurred to me that you were probably joking, except for the following:

My way is my way. Your way is your way. I love the game as much as you do.

[ericgrau]

Just don't abuse the system? I've seen games work out well with healing, damage and limited munchkinism. That stuff isn't that weak unless compared to abusive tactics, i.e. a focus on certain splatbook abilities for the purpose of easy cheesy "i win". High level healing is essential if you play a brutal campaign where lives need saving. Just avoid wasting combat rounds on mid/low level healing and have another tactic for the 80% of the time when there isn't an emergency. Scorching ray and fireball, plus metamagicked/etc. versions, are both bread and butter spells for disrupting other casters with readied actions, taking down creatures with high saves (for full/half damage), dealing with mirror images (removing or damaging in spite of) and dealing with masses of weak opponents. Other energy type spells are weaker but provide backups for an easy way to deal with resistances, as do certain feats/special abilities to change energy types. As with healing this shouldn't be your only tactic, but it is still extremely useful a good majority of the time. Now if you want only healing and damage to be the best option all the time (or any single tactic for that matter), that simply isn't true and you should just stick to 4e for that.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

I had a bit of a rant here about how I didn't think it was fair to suggest that CO ruined the game. I've deleted it as it occurred to me that you were probably joking, except for t

People found ways to do infinite attacks with the Ranger in 4.0 within two weeks of its release.

I don't think CO is the problem either.

[Limos]

Dear 4e,

I know you've been going through a tough time lately. It seems like your big brother 3.5 has been telling all his friends that there is something wrong with you. I know it's just because he is jealous that you are finally getting your chance in the spotlight. Don't listen to them.

I love how you finally bridged the gap between the power sources, how you streamlined the game into one coherent system rather than having a different ruleset for every character. You actually make it fun to play as something other than a batman wizard or cheese clericzilla. I'm so happy that you threw out all that rancid cheese that your big brother left lying everywhere.

I know you are going through a tough transition with all the people trying to drag you down, but give it time for them to settle in and it'll work out fine.

Hang in there buddy,
Limos

[SoD]

And so I spent as little time with you as possible near the end, sure I talked with other people about you, and I tried to act like I still liked you, but my heart wasn't in it anymore. And then your brother came out and things were different.

I knew I wasn't the only one who thought 4e was gay.

If you want a way to enjoy 3.5e, and one of the problems is casters, and another problem is too much stuff, get a bunch of people together to play a no- or low- magic game, possibly core only.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

I love how you finally bridged the gap between the power sources, how you streamlined the game into one coherent system rather than having a different ruleset for every character. You actually make it fun to play as something other than a batman wizard or cheese clericzilla. I'm so happy that you threw out all that rancid cheese that your big brother left lying everywhere.

The primary reason I don't like 4.x. Sometimes, I want to have a dozen abilities to track, sometimes I just want to need to know my BAB. Sometimes I want to have to question whether it's worth it to take any actions, sometimes I want to have something interesting to do every round. 4.x would have gotten much more of a look from me if everyone had different numbers of per day abilities. There's no reason for the martial character to last the same number of fights as a caster.