[4e] Dresden Files Campaign

[Kyace]

An idea I've had on the back burner for a while is a Dresden-Universe game where you could mix magicians, humans and non-humans. I considered trying to make a ton of houserules to 3.5 to get it to fit but having been drafted into a local 4.0 game I found its not as bad as I thought and fits the pulpiness of the Dresden Files fairly well. Some ideas I had to make the mechanics match the style:

Cut down on the wizard/sorcerer/warlock powers that don't fit with the Dresden-verse then consolidate the powerlists so a wizard can learn a warlock power and vice versa. Powers which mimic dark magic or magic which breaks the 7 laws will be listed at character creation to allow some dipping but to warn players. Might just let each arcane character choose a second power list to draw from if I don't butcher the power lists as much as I think I will.

Rituals would be the thaumaturgy to Power's Evocation. I think I'll give the option to replace most monetary component costs with healing surge costs but raise the skill check DCs unless they pay both.

I think I'll also houserule an encounter power all characters get that allow them to spend two healing surges for one healing surges' worth of healing and take 1d6 ability damage to a random physical and mental score as a reaction to being taken to zero HP.

Lets see, very few or no clerics and warlords, very rare paladins; and some fighters, rogues and rangers. I think I'd allow martial characters to hybrid if they'd like and give any martial character with chainmail proficient or better a free +3 to AC when unarmored to somewhat balance out the lack of armor.

So.... anything look very broken from the get-go? No rush, I doubt I can run it for a few months, just an idea I'm toying with.

[wadledo]

dresdenfilesrpg

[Audious]

Mage would probably be a better system for this

[horus42]

Mage would probably be a better system for this

I completely agree. It's already modern, and it's pretty gritty (it is the World of Darkness, after all.) My first Mage character was a Dresden-esque private eye.

Also, with the Mage magic system, as long as you're creative, you can do pretty much anything.

[Audious]

I completely agree. It's already modern, and it's pretty gritty (it is the World of Darkness, after all.) My first Mage character was a Dresden-esque private eye.

Also, with the Mage magic system, as long as you're creative, you can do pretty much anything.

Not to mention, Paradox ensures that magic is used subtly or infrequently.

[Haven]

From what TV Tropes tells me about Dresden Files, the entropy sphere would be perfect for the curse that eventually results in the airplane turkey incident.

[horus42]

Not to mention, Paradox ensures that magic is used subtly or infrequently.

Yeah. And also because of that, Mage has the whole "most people don't know about or believe in Magic" thing that the Dresden Files has going for it, which is something that would be weird in D&D, since everyone would just say "Oh, another wizard. What's so special about you?"

[Kyace]

I see. How is Mage/nWoD for having mundane and magical characters in the same group without the mage overshadowing the mundane characters. I had heard that mages were quite... strong in nWod but I've never had a chance to play.

[Audious]

I see. How is Mage/nWoD for having mundane and magical characters in the same group without the mage overshadowing the mundane characters. I had heard that mages were quite... strong in nWod but I've never had a chance to play.

It handles it pretty well in that, if a Mage uses obvious magic around "sleepers," (people who aren't aware of magic) it creates "paradox." And it will backfire on you if you build up too much. So, you're not running around slinging fireballs and summoning goblins. It's pretty much reality letting you get away with manipulating it in small ways, but when you start doing stuff that's obviously not right, it goes, "Come on, now, man."

[Kyace]

The Mage/nWoD universe actively discourages using magic in front of sleepers. In the Dresden Files, its pretty much a gentlemanly agreement to prevent the vast majority of humanity from going torch and pitchforks at you. Harry Dresden is unusual in that he /doesn't/ keep up the masquerade.

The D&D setting having no masquerade has no real impact on the D&D /mechanics/. If you make the knowledge that Magic even exists a DC 11 Knowledge Arcana check in 3.5 terms with Trained only and remove 99% of the magic items you can play a clunky if serviceable game. I think 4.0 would be even easier to play in a lower magic world due to the healing surge mechanic and the power mechanic meshing well with pulp action.

wadledo, the playtesting is closed atm so I guess I'll wait until they open it or start selling the product to judge it.

[horus42]

It handles it pretty well in that, if a Mage uses obvious magic around "sleepers," (people who aren't aware of magic) it creates "paradox." And it will backfire on you if you build up too much. So, you're not running around slinging fireballs and summoning goblins. It's pretty much reality letting you get away with manipulating it in small ways, but when you start doing stuff that's obviously not right, it goes, "Come on, now, man."

I think this might be the best way I've ever heard that said.

[Satyr]

I would strongly suggest Witchcraft instead of any of the World of Darkness stuff. Compared to the NWoD, it is not only plain better, as a free game it is also indefinately more lucrative.

And for a conversion of the Dresden Files, it's more suitable as there is no such thing as paradox in the dresdenverse, there is such a thing as true faith and divine support for pious individuals (which is also covered well in Witchcraft).

Alternatively, try Mutants and Masterminds. Butcher himself compared Harry frequently to a superhero, and with his powers and so on that works out pretty well.

[grautry]

It handles it pretty well in that, if a Mage uses obvious magic around "sleepers," (people who aren't aware of magic) it creates "paradox." And it will backfire on you if you build up too much. So, you're not running around slinging fireballs and summoning goblins. It's pretty much reality letting you get away with manipulating it in small ways, but when you start doing stuff that's obviously not right, it goes, "Come on, now, man."

No, not really.

I mean it appears like it handles the balance well, but there is in fact, no balance.

An average starting mage compared to an average mortal has double or triple the defense, infinitely better information-gathering capabilities and nigh-unlimited number of supernatural options. There are PLENTY of covert options for mages to use in sight of sleepers(which trigger Paradox only in the most extreme circumstances) - admittedly, some Arcana are more Paradox-happy than the others, but every mage can deal in sight of Sleepers fairly well.

And by the gods, if a mage starts ritual casting - run. Even a fairly newbish mage can raise a freaking cemetery of undead or summon an army of animals to serve him etcera. The options that mages have with ritual casting are just plain insane. Admittedly, it takes a good day or so to setup a ritual casting.

And by the god, if you try rolling with the M:tAw system never ever allow for Master mages because they punch Pun-Pun sized holes through the system(literally in some cases - Fate allows for a limitless dice bonus).

Running Mages+Humans campaign can be done. But the humans need to be far more experienced then the mages are or you just need to ignore the fact that some members are far more powerful than the others.

OTOH, M:tAw - despite the flaws - is just about my favourite game system ever and I've had tons of fun experiences with it. Additionally, it's mechanics can deal fairly well with a Dresden-esque world.

[Doc Roc]

World of Darkness is a terrible system. All my experiences with it have been nothing but negative, largely in the same vein as the poster above me had but much much worse. Much worse. To the sound of werewolves with gauss rifles. I recommend using savage worlds, because it is amazing.

[horus42]

Grautry, when I first started reading your post, I was really close to jumping in with a "sure, it has flaws, but it's still really fun, which is what's important in a game!" Then I saw your last paragraph and it made me smile.

[wormwood]

World of Darkness is a terrible system. All my experiences with it have been nothing but negative, largely in the same vein as the poster above me had but much much worse. Much worse. To the sound of werewolves with gauss rifles. I recommend using savage worlds, because it is amazing.

i have to say... not the fault of the system.

In Mage, the magic-using characters are far superior to the mundanes. That's also true in the Dresden world. Dresden often avoids his mundane friends for fear he'll get them squished. Even his more magical buddies (the d&d playing werewolves, the paladin, the non-council mages) are flimsy compared to a full-fledged wizard. I think that fits the setting rather well.

Of course, if you're looking to have balance between your wizardly characters and non-wiz characters, you could bump up the experience level of the mundanes. That seems to be how it's handled in the Dresden books, also. All the folks who can even hold a candle to Dresden are either wizards, fey, or very, very good at what they do.

EDIT: Also, I feel I must admit that I've been thinking of running a Mage game based on the Dresden world.

[grautry]

Grautry, when I first started reading your post, I was really close to jumping in with a "sure, it has flaws, but it's still really fun, which is what's important in a game!" Then I saw your last paragraph and it made me smile.

Yeah, it *is* tons of fun.

But you need to remember to keep the mages at a fairly low power level. NWoD system handles mortal or slightly-better-than-mortal characters quite well, with simple mechanics to boot, but the system really breaks down when you reach Master levels of power.

Additionally, you need to be aware of the sheer power of ritual casting. It has a geometric growth, which means that mages can pull of really insane effects, even at low levels of power. For example, devoting 5 successes to so-called Target Factors(Factors are a way to modify a spell to affect an area, affect more targets, have a longer duration and so on) allow for you to use a spell on 32 targets, while devoting 10 allows for you to affect 1024 targets. Twenty successes gives you a million targets.

The saving grace of that is that newbie mages are unlikely to have spells other than Rotes(which are pretty much spells that the mage has learned really well) that give them the dice pools to pull off tricks like that.

So what happens at Master levels? You have mages that can magnify their dice pools by a factor of five or ten, get armor that is capable of soaking 30+ damage of every single attack(when the best firearms specialist in the world will have a hard time inflicting more than 5 levels of damage with each attack), create servant spirits with demigod level of power, enslave half the city, rewind time(I don't need to explain how annoying it would be if a player 'rewound' time to ten game sessions earlier, do I? There's a good reason why this particular spell is banned at most gaming tables), create earthquakes, annihilate all matter within a whole city... And so on and so forth. Master-level mages(at least of the most overpowered Arcana, most Arcana are *fairly* reasonable) are kind of like 20-th level Wizards in D&D.

But most of those cases are kind of like Pun-Pun. It's just stuff that you avoid doing at the gaming table and with that in mind M:tAw is a fine system.