[4e] Bracer of Infinite...Wait...

[Burley]

Okay. So, I saw the Bracers of Infinite Blades. Pretty cool. I thought, "Well, infinate +2 Magic Daggers, for the same cost as a +3 Magic Dagger.
Then I noticed that a +4 Magic Dagger is the same price and level as a Bracer of Infinate Blades, level 16, which gives you infinate +4 daggers.
It isn't game breaking, but if a Sorcerer had the Dual Implement Proficiency, he'd be getting a good deal more damage that his WBL should allow, right? Well... Only 4 more per attack, but stil...
Is this funny to anybody else?

[Kurald Galain]

Obviously, that item was written before someone added the rule that all magical ranged weapons return to your hand after every attack roll. Sloppy, sloppy.

[Burley]

But, why would infinite +2 weapons cost the same as a +3, but infinite +4s cost the same as a +4? Thats the sloppy bit.

[MickJay]

Try selling those infinite +2 daggers and then buy yourself a +5 (or better) dagger

[Sir Homeslice]

Try selling those infinite +2 daggers and then buy yourself a +5 (or better) dagger

The bracers won't let you do that, Tim. The daggers disappear a round after they come into reality.

[ImmortalAer]

The bracers won't let you do that, Tim. The daggers disappear a round after they come into reality.

"Would you like to buy these cased daggers?"
*shows daggers*
"How about this case of them, as well?"
*shows daggers, put the box ontop of the other*
"How..."

Until your out of boxes. ...and then you run away.

[pingcode20]

Of course, not that it's that much worse than simply using illusions to con the poor shopkeep in the first place.

In all honesty, it's probably better to make the +2 version just cost as much as the +2 dagger, and call it a day - lets people who want to make circus knife-thrower style (or, for the more anime-inclined, Archer-from-Fate-Stay-Night style) characters throw as many knives as they please, without serious potential for abuse.

[MickJay]

How many daggers can you pull out of those bracers in a single round? Perhaps throwing a whole bunch of them at a time would offset their lower quality.

[Burley]

I already stated a potential for abuse:
Sorcerers with the Dual Implement feat. Gives them an extra +2/+4 to damage, without any extra cost.
Also, Rogues do have some area powers. Magic weapons return to your hand at the end of the round, so, having a +2 weapon against every enemy in a burst 3 is a lot more powerful that having a +2 weapon against one enemy and a mundane weapon against the rest.
I also submit a ranger focusing on thrown weapons. By no means a powerful build, but becomes much cheaper, quickly.

How many daggers can you pull out of those bracers in a single round? Perhaps throwing a whole bunch of them at a time would offset their lower quality.

"You can draw a +2 dagger from these bracers as though drawing it from a sheath."

This would imply that it would be a minor action to draw one, or, with Quick Draw, infinitely many during a free action. The picture (which is the only reason you'd notice the item in the first place, because it appears quite bland otherwise) would support the implication. However, pictures are not rules, and I understand this.
However however, "Just look at the picture" is usually a justifiable defense at a gaming table.

[shadzar]

Wherefore are these bracers located?

[Blackfang108]

Wherefore are these bracers located?

Adventurer's Vault, I believe.

Arms slot?

[TricksyAndFalse]

They appear in the Adventurers Vault.

The returning bit is not the advantage of these bracers. As already stated above, all magical ranged throwing weapons already return to your hand.

The intended advantage of these items is in seeming unarmed for those campaigns where your character sometimes needs to appear unarmed, or gets captured and his/her weapons are confiscated. They were meant to be just slightly more useful than a Swordmage's swordbond class feature.

The OP points out, though, that the bracers don't limit the number of blades that can be generated. The OP is right that a dual-implement Sorcerer can get 2 or 4 more points of damage than their WBL might otherwise indicate. While it's probably an abuse of the item's original intent, it's not particularly broken.

EDIT: Missed the rogue area attack part. In our game, we use the rogue's magic dagger stats for all area attack rolls anyway. In our games, these bracers are inferior to whatever weapon the rogue was going to use, because they have no extra properties. Now that you've brought it up, we may have been doing it wrong.

EDIT 2: Doing it right, as per the FAQ discussed below.

[Kurald Galain]

I already stated a potential for abuse:
Sorcerers with the Dual Implement feat. Gives them an extra +2/+4 to damage, without any extra cost.

That's not abuse. It costs you a feat and a magical item slot, which restricts you from using that feat and that slot for better stuff instead. Staff of Ruin does the same thing without the feat (and stacks with the feat, which does get somewhat cheesy).

Magic weapons return to your hand at the end of the round, so, having a +2 weapon against every enemy in a burst 3 is a lot more powerful that having a +2 weapon against one enemy and a mundane weapon against the rest.

This is incorrect; magic weapons return to your hand after every attack roll. From the FAQ, "Magical thrown weapons return to you after each attack, so you’ll be able to use it against each enemy as part of using your power." PHB 232 is also very clear that it does not just return at the end of the round.

And of course, requiring a player to have three magical daggers in order to use a magical area attack is exactly the kind of restriction that goes against the design philosophy of 4E. Characters are never supposed to be limited by lack of food, light, ammunition, and so forth.

[TricksyAndFalse]

Found it in the FAQ:

14. I am using a magical thrown weapon as part of an area of effect power. If I am attacking multiple enemies within that area, do I need multiple weapons, or will one suffice?


One is enough in this case. Magical thrown weapons return to you after each attack, so you’ll be able to use it against each enemy as part of using your power.

So, not broken for rogues either.

EDIT: ninjad

[Gawaeyn]

This would imply that it would be a minor action to draw one, or, with Quick Draw, infinitely many during a free action.

I was under the impression that Quick Draw only allows you to draw the weapon with the action used to attack with it. Therefore, if you're not attacking with the dagger, you can't draw it as part of an attack action. This basically means that you can only draw as part of you attack action as many daggers you require for the attack.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

However, I also believe that you can save a feat by buying Dragon 368's Battle Harness Armor, which does actually allow you to draw a weapon as a free action. Or, take Arcane and get the Disembodied/Rakshasa Hand familiar, which grants a similar ability.

Again, correct me if I'm wrong.

Does this mean that you can instantly create a pile of daggers below you in your square, then step off the pile, and use some sliding attack (A half-elf with Versatile Master could easily take Eldritch Strike, for example) to smash an adjacent enemy into a mound of sharp, pointy, painful death?