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    Default Many Polymorph Questions

    Hi I'm planning on doing lots with a polymorphing character and had some questions about the mechanics. I have a lot of questions so dont feel obligated to answer them all, any help is welcome.

    1.If you polymorph to a creature with weapons e.g.yuan ti do you gain its weapons, keep your own weapons or have no weapons? sam e for armour

    2.If you polymorph to a form with feats do you gain those feats for the spell durtion? What about dragons?

    3.Can a lich polymorph himself or is he immune to that as well?

    4.When polymorphing an inanimate object into a creature how does it act? Is a golem loyal to you? Does an elemental attack whatevers nearby?

    5.When polymorphing a creature with polymorph any object does its alignment change? Its other mental stats are altered so would a goblin becoming a titan attack its allies?

    6.You maintain your feats when you polymorph but what about draconic feats for the sorcerer from complete arcana?

    7. Can a dragon cast spells with somatic components or is he limited to verbal?

    8.If you cast enlarge on yourself at a high level then polymorph to a dragon type that borders on the next size category do you gain the larger dragons stronger attacks?

    Thx in advance

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    Default Re: Many Polymorph Questions

    1.If you polymorph to a creature with weapons e.g.yuan ti do you gain its weapons, keep your own weapons or have no weapons? sam e for armour

    Only if the item can be worn or held by the new form. So a Yuan-ti could hold a sword, but couldn't wear magic pants.

    2.If you polymorph to a form with feats do you gain those feats for the spell durtion? What about dragons?

    Only bonus racial feats. See the rules below

    3.Can a lich polymorph himself or is he immune to that as well?

    He is immune.

    4.When polymorphing an inanimate object into a creature how does it act? Is a golem loyal to you? Does an elemental attack whatevers nearby?

    It will behave like an average creature of its type. It has no loyalty to you

    5.When polymorphing a creature with polymorph any object does its alignment change? Its other mental stats are altered so would a goblin becoming a titan attack its allies?

    Potentially. There is nothing in the spell description either way, so it would be up to the DM to adjudicate.

    6.You maintain your feats when you polymorph but what about draconic feats for the sorcerer from complete arcana?

    What about them?

    7. Can a dragon cast spells with somatic components or is he limited to verbal?

    Dragons are capable of casting spells with somatic components.

    8.If you cast enlarge on yourself at a high level then polymorph to a dragon type that borders on the next size category do you gain the larger dragons stronger attacks?

    No. Magical effects that increase size do not stack.

    Polymorph
    Transmutation
    Level: Sor/Wiz 4
    Components: V, S, M
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Touch
    Target: Willing living creature touched
    Duration: 1 min./level (D)
    Saving Throw: None
    Spell Resistance: No

    This spell functions like alter self, except that you change the willing subject into another form of living creature. The new form may be of the same type as the subject or any of the following types: aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin. The assumed form canít have more Hit Dice than your caster level (or the subjectís HD, whichever is lower), to a maximum of 15 HD at 15th level. You canít cause a subject to assume a form smaller than Fine, nor can you cause a subject to assume an incorporeal or gaseous form. The subjectís creature type and subtype (if any) change to match the new form.

    Upon changing, the subject regains lost hit points as if it had rested for a night (though this healing does not restore temporary ability damage and provide other benefits of resting; and changing back does not heal the subject further). If slain, the subject reverts to its original form, though it remains dead.

    The subject gains the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores of the new form but retains its own Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. It also gains all extraordinary special attacks possessed by the form but does not gain the extraordinary special qualities possessed by the new form or any supernatural or spell-like abilities.

    Incorporeal or gaseous creatures are immune to being polymorphed, and a creature with the shapechanger subtype can revert to its natural form as a standard action.
    Material Component

    An empty cocoon.


    Alter Self
    Transmutation
    Level: Brd 2, Sor/Wiz 2
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: 10 min./level (D)

    You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form. The new form must be within one size category of your normal size. The maximum HD of an assumed form is equal to your caster level, to a maximum of 5 HD at 5th level. You can change into a member of your own kind or even into yourself.

    You retain your own ability scores. Your class and level, hit points, alignment, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses all remain the same. You retain all supernatural and spell-like special attacks and qualities of your normal form, except for those requiring a body part that the new form does not have (such as a mouth for a breath weapon or eyes for a gaze attack).

    You keep all extraordinary special attacks and qualities derived from class levels, but you lose any from your normal form that are not derived from class levels.

    If the new form is capable of speech, you can communicate normally. You retain any spellcasting ability you had in your original form, but the new form must be able to speak intelligibly (that is, speak a language) to use verbal components and must have limbs capable of fine manipulation to use somatic or material components.

    You acquire the physical qualities of the new form while retaining your own mind. Physical qualities include natural size, mundane movement capabilities (such as burrowing, climbing, walking, swimming, and flight with wings, to a maximum speed of 120 feet for flying or 60 feet for nonflying movement), natural armor bonus, natural weapons (such as claws, bite, and so on), racial skill bonuses, racial bonus feats, and any gross physical qualities (presence or absence of wings, number of extremities, and so forth). A body with extra limbs does not allow you to make more attacks (or more advantageous two-weapon attacks) than normal.

    You do not gain any extraordinary special attacks or special qualities not noted above under physical qualities, such as darkvision, low-light vision, blindsense, blindsight, fast healing, regeneration, scent, and so forth.

    You do not gain any supernatural special attacks, special qualities, or spell-like abilities of the new form. Your creature type and subtype (if any) remain the same regardless of your new form. You cannot take the form of any creature with a template, even if that template doesnít change the creature type or subtype.

    You can freely designate the new formís minor physical qualities (such as hair color, hair texture, and skin color) within the normal ranges for a creature of that kind. The new formís significant physical qualities (such as height, weight, and gender) are also under your control, but they must fall within the norms for the new formís kind. You are effectively disguised as an average member of the new formís race. If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on your Disguise check.

    When the change occurs, your equipment, if any, either remains worn or held by the new form (if it is capable of wearing or holding the item), or melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. When you revert to your true form, any objects previously melded into the new form reappear in the same location on your body they previously occupied and are once again functional. Any new items you wore in the assumed form and canít wear in your normal form fall off and land at your feet; any that you could wear in either form or carry in a body part common to both forms at the time of reversion are still held in the same way. Any part of the body or piece of equipment that is separated from the whole reverts to its true form.
    Last edited by Myrmex; 2009-06-18 at 03:27 AM.

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    Jair Barik's Avatar

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    Default Re: Many Polymorph Questions

    Thx

    What i meant about the Sorcerer feats was that they change you by giving you new physical qualities eg. natural armour
    As a change to your character would this be lost if you polymorphed
    Also on the subject of polymorphing golems what if you polymorph something into a shield guardian?

    He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
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    Default Re: Many Polymorph Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jair Barik View Post
    What i meant about the Sorcerer feats was that they change you by giving you new physical qualities eg. natural armour
    From Alter Self (and consequentially, Polymorph):

    You keep all extraordinary special attacks and qualities derived from class levels, but you lose any from your normal form that are not derived from class levels.

    Since you keep the feats, you keep their benefit. You are a slightly more armored creature. This is only if in the feat description it says the bonus stacks with other natural armor bonuses; otherwise a natural armor bonus won't stack with a natural bonus, due to stacking rules of things with the same name.

    Also on the subject of polymorphing golems what if you polymorph something into a shield guardian?
    Polymorph works for the following creature types:
    aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin.

    Constructs are not on there.

    You could Shapechange into a golem, such as a shield guardian.

    Here are the rules for Shapechange:

    Shapechange
    Transmutation
    Level: Animal 9, Drd 9, Sor/Wiz 9
    Components: V, S, F
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: 10 min./level (D)

    This spell functions like polymorph, except that it enables you to assume the form of any single nonunique creature (of any type) from Fine to Colossal size. The assumed form cannot have more than your caster level in Hit Dice (to a maximum of 25 HD). Unlike polymorph, this spell allows incorporeal or gaseous forms to be assumed.

    You gain all extraordinary and supernatural abilities (both attacks and qualities) of the assumed form, but you lose your own supernatural abilities. You also gain the type of the new form in place of your own. The new form does not disorient you. Parts of your body or pieces of equipment that are separated from you do not revert to their original forms.

    You can become just about anything you are familiar with. You can change form once each round as a free action. The change takes place either immediately before your regular action or immediately after it, but not during the action. If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on your Disguise check.
    Focus

    A jade circlet worth no less than 1,500 gp, which you must place on your head when casting the spell. (The focus melds into your new form when you change shape.)

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    Default Re: Many Polymorph Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Myrmex View Post
    3.Can a lich polymorph himself or is he immune to that as well?
    He is immune.
    Not quite.

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD View Post
    Immunities (Ex)
    Liches have immunity to cold, electricity, polymorph (though they can use polymorph effects on themselves), and mind-affecting attacks.
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    Default Re: Many Polymorph Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclocone View Post
    Not quite.
    I'll be....

    I wonder if that line's in the 3.0 MM. It's in my 3.5 MM; but I've never noticed it before.

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    Default Re: Many Polymorph Questions

    Thx Myrmex
    I'm planning on running a Sorcerer/Master Transmogrifist so Shapechange is a fairly moot point till epic levels. Pity I can't change to elementals (was going to stick air elemental dexterity on a creature with high natural armour) but I have some other ideas.

    On the subject of the transmogrifist how specific does the favoured form have to be? Which of these for example are allowed- hydra (any?) or cryo hydra, red dragon or chromatic dragon, giant scorpion (any) or huge giant scorpion.

    Thx for that Cyclocone. I'm still working with 3e at the moment and the lich rules were somewhat vague as to wether or not a lich can polymorph. Thanks for confirmation

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    Default Re: Many Polymorph Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Myrmex View Post
    I'll be....

    I wonder if that line's in the 3.0 MM. It's in my 3.5 MM; but I've never noticed it before.
    I certainly wouldn't put 3.0 above having a bizzare rule like that.
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    Default Re: Many Polymorph Questions

    The table on page 66 of http://crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD...ererWizard.pdf may be useful for quick referencing. I'd say you'd have to pick the specific form for using MT, and I'd say Lich wouldn't count due to being a template (unless that PrC allows you to use templates as well).
    Last edited by Tempest Fennac; 2009-06-18 at 04:14 AM.
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    Jair Barik's Avatar

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    Default Re: Many Polymorph Questions

    Thx tempest

    Thats really helpful for the polymorph spell

    Was thinking of using red dragon form, cryo hydra form, dire bat and possibly aboleth, rust monster and beholder or something
    Last edited by Jair Barik; 2009-06-18 at 04:50 AM.

    He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
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    Default Re: Many Polymorph Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jair Barik View Post
    1.If you polymorph to a creature with weapons e.g.yuan ti do you gain its weapons, keep your own weapons or have no weapons? sam e for armour
    You don't get any weapons or armor that happens to be worn by the new form in its MM entry. You only get the physical form.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jair Barik View Post
    5.When polymorphing a creature with polymorph any object does its alignment change? Its other mental stats are altered so would a goblin becoming a titan attack its allies?
    Normally, no. "Your ... alignment ... remain[s] the same" -- alter self

    But keep in mind that type and subtype does change. "Any effect that depends on alignment affects a creature with this subtype as if the creature has a chaotic [example] alignment, no matter what its alignment actually is." http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubty...chaoticSubtype

    (BTW, you can't change anything into a titan with PAO - too many HD. If the subject is a goblin it's also the wrong type.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jair Barik View Post
    8.If you cast enlarge on yourself at a high level then polymorph to a dragon type that borders on the next size category do you gain the larger dragons stronger attacks?
    No. Enlarge person does not continue to monitor your status after it's cast. There is no "refresh" should you somehow become bigger or smaller later.

    Nor does it stop working if you change type, so you might be able to use it to keep your equipment the right size if you change into a giant.

    (On a side note, I do not consider polymorph a "magical effect that increases size" as far as the rules are concerned. Doesn't matter here though.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jair Barik
    On the subject of the transmogrifist how specific does the favoured form have to be? Which of these for example are allowed- hydra (any?) or cryo hydra, red dragon or chromatic dragon, giant scorpion (any) or huge giant scorpion.
    The ability description is not clear on this, but I'd say you have to pick a single specific form. The example character has "very young gold dragon" as a favored shape, not "gold dragon".

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by Jair Barik View Post
    Was thinking of using red dragon form, cryo hydra form, dire bat and possibly aboleth, rust monster and beholder or something
    Do you have access to books beyond the Monster Manual? What kind of character is it? Primarily melee?
    Last edited by Iku Rex; 2009-06-18 at 04:53 AM.

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    Default Re: Many Polymorph Questions

    Primarily was going to be melee and no don't have many books
    Was planning on spamming down some long enchants (bull strength etc.) using some buff deats from sorcerer, improved invis and then shifting to a mixed from that has a high number of attacks per round e.g. large dragon+beholder or aboleth. I was also planning on taking a number of spells that don't need somatic/material components or taking eschew materials.

    As I read it in the MT description it was a player who chooses Gold dragon as a favoured form may change to any gold dragon but due to the limit of HD they can't realisticly become a dragon of too large a size. I was thinking hydra would make a good choice due to this (effectively increasing in strength as I levelled) and a dragon type. As for the dire bat I was thinking either that or an arrowhawk so that I got a good dex score to add to the dragon if i wanted+ the hawks natural feats and lightning or the bats senses.

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    Default Re: Many Polymorph Questions

    For the record, you could polymorph to a golem if you were a warforged.

    The new form may be of the same type as the subject or any of the following types: aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin
    Sig'd

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