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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Where's the fremlin

    Does anybody know if WOTC or anyone converted the fremlin into 3rd=3.5? I really loved playing one of those little stinkers in 2nd.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Where's the fremlin

    wow! that brings up memories. back in 2nd edition i loved to place them in my adventures...

    i don't think they were ever upgraded to 3.5 (or at least i don't remember them anywhere), but i wanted to thank you for the small nostalgia trip...

    Fremlins, damn!

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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Tempest Fennac's Avatar

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    Default Re: Where's the fremlin

    What are Fremlins? I could help with making a 3.5 version if you need help with it.
    "It doesn't matter what you think I'm supposed to be, 'cause I myself know all too well." Line from "King of My World" by Saliva.
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
     
    afroakuma's Avatar

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    Apr 2008

    Default Re: Where's the fremlin

    These would be fremlins.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Where's the fremlin

    I recently looked at updating them (a friend of mine wants to play one).

    I Lost all my notes on the subject in the move but I think I concluded that they would be a LA1 race (minimum).

    I just ran a search (4th entry) and enworld has a converted creature listing in their creature catalogue.
    Doug

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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Where's the fremlin

    Quote Originally Posted by Tempest Fennac View Post
    What are Fremlins? I could help with making a 3.5 version if you need help with it.
    Fremlins look like little hairy pudgy monkeys with bat wings. They stand about 1 foot tall, and im not sure if they have a tail or not.

    Talking about nastelga, I named one of my fremlin characters (you could make them out of the humanoids handbook) sere a vous the fire guy, we took wooden beams and built out of the minators backpack a little place to live. Sometimes i had him hide in a persons mug, cast cantrips-glowing eyes, and jump out at people when they took a sip ah, good times.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Tempest Fennac's Avatar

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    Default Re: Where's the fremlin

    Thanks for explaining. I looked at the Enworld conversion and I'm not sure how to change them into a player race to be honest (extra HDs always throw me out).
    "It doesn't matter what you think I'm supposed to be, 'cause I myself know all too well." Line from "King of My World" by Saliva.
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  8. - Top - End - #8
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Flickerdart's Avatar

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    Default Re: Where's the fremlin

    Just let them roll. -2 STR, +4 DEX, a half-decent bite attack (for a Tiny creature, that is) and +8 to Listen. I would say bump them up to Small, knock the DEX bonus to +2 and they can pass as LA0 RHD0 critters.

    Edit: Oh, is that a fly speed I spy? LA1, then. Leave the DEX bonus.
    Last edited by Flickerdart; 2009-06-21 at 09:46 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Where's the fremlin

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Just let them roll. -2 STR, +4 DEX, a half-decent bite attack (for a Tiny creature, that is) and +8 to Listen. I would say bump them up to Small, knock the DEX bonus to +2 and they can pass as LA0 RHD0 critters.

    Edit: Oh, is that a fly speed I spy? LA1, then. Leave the DEX bonus.
    -2 STR, +4 DEX, +8 to Listen, DR10/+1, darkvision 60', fly 30' = LA+1

    good strength for tiny creatures, good bite attack. I'd agree that it would be best to bump them to Small and leave the stats the same. DR10/+1 is very nice at low levels and almost useless later on.
    Doug

    Currently GMing :
    Moonshae Mysteries IC / OOC / Central Map / west rooms map / east rooms map
    Moonshae Tales IC / OOC / Map
    Map of Area

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Flickerdart's Avatar

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    Default Re: Where's the fremlin

    Quote Originally Posted by only1doug View Post
    -2 STR, +4 DEX, +8 to Listen, DR10/+1, darkvision 60', fly 30' = LA+1

    good strength for tiny creatures, good bite attack. I'd agree that it would be best to bump them to Small and leave the stats the same. DR10/+1 is very nice at low levels and almost useless later on.
    DR by enhancement bonus is 3.0, 3.5 would make that more like DR5/magic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Mar 2009

    Default Re: Where's the fremlin

    Quote Originally Posted by Tempest Fennac View Post
    Thanks for explaining. I looked at the Enworld conversion and I'm not sure how to change them into a player race to be honest (extra HDs always throw me out).
    Should tiny little things like this have extra HD? I thought they were for big tough monsters like ogres, who should have like a minimum of hp.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Gralamin's Avatar

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    Feb 2005

    Default Re: Where's the fremlin

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    These would be fremlins.
    Based on this and Savage Species...

    3d8 HD means ECL 3, at least.
    Tiny Size is worth a -1 LA
    30 ft Fly Speed (Good) is worth +2 LA
    DR 10/Magic (Or does it become DR 5/Magic?) +1 LA
    Bite (Worth +0 here)
    +8 Listen isn't worth any increase.
    Dex +4, Str -2 (Unbalanced Scores) Worth +1 LA
    Darkvision isn't worth any increase

    So According to it, its an ECL 6. However, Clearly that's absurd, so we have to compare it to other creatures.

    The Winged Template, Which gives +4 Dex, +2 Wis, and a land Speed + 20 ft Fly speed (That can be up to Perfect) is worth a +2 LA.

    What we Have here, in comparable features, is 30 Fly Speed (Good) and Dex +4, Str -2. So We could say that these two combined are worth +1 LA.

    So They are now an ECL 4 Race. This means A likely Savage Progression of...

    Fremlin

    Racial Traits
    Starting ability Score Adjustments: +2 Dex, -2 Str.
    Speed: 15 ft Land Speed.
    Darkvision: 60 ft Darkvision
    Tiny Monstrous Humanoid

    {table=head]Level|Hit Dice|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skill Points|Special
    1|1d8|+1|+0|+2|+2|(2 + Int Mod) x4|+8 Listen, Bite (1d4)
    2|1d8|+1|+0|+2|+2|-|DR 5/Magic
    3|2d8|+2|+0|+2|+2|(2 + Int Mod)|+2 Dex, Fly 30 ft (Good)
    4|3d8|+3|+1|+3|+3|(2 + Int Mod)|DR 10/Magic (If its converted to half instead, Then drop the Fly Speed down to here)[/table]
    Last edited by Gralamin; 2009-06-21 at 10:52 AM.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Jun 2005

    Default Re: Where's the fremlin

    There's a positive correlation between size and toughness, but they're not directly proportional to each other. Look at quasits, imps, and dragon wyrmlings.

    I think that the ENworld fremlin would be balanced at LA +0. (Which strikes me as rare for things with racial hit dice.) Flight, a good attack bonus, DR/10 magic, darkvision, and a +8 Listen bonus in exchange for having to take three Monstrous Humanoid HD? And 0 ft. reach (making the "only bites when cornered" bit fairly mechanically enforced)? Well, yeah, OK. That could make for a decent archer and scout, though not an uber one like a pixie Rogue.
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  14. - Top - End - #14
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Mar 2009

    Default Re: Where's the fremlin

    Quote Originally Posted by Devils_Advocate View Post
    There's a positive correlation between size and toughness, but they're not directly proportional to each other. Look at quasits, imps, and dragon wyrmlings.
    True, I was assuming that it would be a humanoid (or monstrous). Things like outsiders and dragons are considerably tougher. I'm pretty sure that among humanoids (which is what I was considering, perhaps mistakenly), those of small size or smaller all have 1 HD (you get medium sized ones with more, like Bugbears of Gnolls, but kobolds, goblins and even orcs all have 1 HD). Is this thing not a humanoid then?

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