Game system-what's the best?

[Ichneumon]

Hi,

I would like to know what you think is the best rpg-system. Is it True20, D20, maybe Gurps. What do you think are the advantages?

Personally, I'm searching for a good system to use in a play-by-post used-future distopian space opera kind of game. Still haven't decided what to use.

[sofawall]

D&D/D20.

I'm slightly biased, however, as I've never played anything else.

[Malacode]

D20 Modern, SWSE or Gurps would be the systems I'd use for a space opera style game. I'd stay away from Gurps, but that's only because I personally don't have much experience. You'll probably have a different take on the system.

[Tengu_temp]

There's no "best" system - most of them work differently depending on what setting would you want to run. Exalted has an awesome mechanic for what it's supposed to represent, for example, but wouldn't really work for a cyberpunk game.

If I had to choose one such system, however, I'd choose Mutants and Masterminds 2e - it's wonderfully versatile, being able to easily represent practically any setting, and, unlike GURPS, fast. It's not a game for people who think "if it's legal by RAW then I can take it lol" - there are some combos that can easily break the game, and it's up to the DM and players to make sure that players choose fitting powers rather than overpowered ones. Most game breakers are pointed out in the rulebook, though, so it's easier to avoid cheese than in most other games.

And don't get me started on DND. Even 4e, the first DND I actually like, is merely good at what it does, not exceptional. DND might be the most popular RPG, but it's a prime example that popularity does not mean quality.

[Innis Cabal]

Hi,

I would like to know what you think is the best rpg-system. Is it True20, D20, maybe Gurps. What do you think are the advantages?

Personally, I'm searching for a good system to use in a play-by-post used-future distopian space opera kind of game. Still haven't decided what to use.

Going to guess you mean in our own opinion. Free form is the best imh&ho....

[Dhavaer]

Shadowrun and Mutunts & Masterminds. The former for lower powered, the latter for higher.

[Kurald Galain]

I would like to know what you think is the best rpg-system. Is it True20, D20, maybe Gurps. What do you think are the advantages?

Personally, I'm searching for a good system to use in a play-by-post used-future distopian space opera kind of game. Still haven't decided what to use.

Setting is unrelated to system.

In my opinion, rules-light systems are "best" (in that I prefer them). All three examples you mentioned, however, are among the most rules-heavy systems in existence. So just to see how things might work differently, you could try something like Paranoia, or Amber DRP, or OTE for awhile. Even Whitewolf is less rules-heavy than d20 or GURPS, and it has excellent character generation mechanics.

[warmachine]

Insufficient data. D20 does high power, heroic fantasy (including space fantasy) better than GURPS but GURPS can handle other genres. In d20, a 1st level character has virtually no chance against a 10th level one. In GURPS, a rookie soldier with an assault rifle can still kill multi-capable veteran adventurers. D20 is combat-oriented, GURPS is roleplay-oriented. D20 is an off-the-shelf system, GURPS is a toolkit system.

In other words, the question cannot be answered unless you describe the level of realism, power level, comedy, combat-orientation etc. that you want in your game.

[Ichneumon]

Insufficient data. D20 does high power, heroic fantasy (including space fantasy) better than GURPS but GURPS can handle other genres. In d20, a 1st level character has virtually no chance against a 10th level one. In GURPS, a rookie soldier with an assault rifle can still kill multi-capable veteran adventurers. D20 is combat-oriented, GURPS is roleplay-oriented. D20 is an off-the-shelf system, GURPS is a toolkit system.

In other words, the question cannot be answered unless you describe the level of realism, power level, comedy, combat-orientation etc. that you want in your game.

Well the game would be sort of a mix between low and high power, combat would be semi-frequent, but only in the form of ranged laser gun fights and the occasional grapple. It would contain elements like psionics and such the level of realism would be sort of limited and I don't intend to include much comedy in the actual story.

[Oslecamo]

And don't get me started on DND. Even 4e, the first DND I actually like, is merely good at what it does, not exceptional. DND might be the most popular RPG, but it's a prime example that popularity does not mean quality.

Popularity has a quality of it's own. Since D&D is more popular, it's easier to get people to play with you, wich translates in more fun, wich is the point of any game.

I ask you, what's the use of having a perfect gaming system if you don't have anyone to play it with you?

[Foryn Gilnith]

True. Quantity has a quality all its own. Sure, you can play the perfect gaming system with as many people as you can proselytize (which would be a lot, because it's perfect). But Wizards of the Coast drags in a huge number of people in its marketing net, and viewing them all is almost as fun as the game itself.

[The Rose Dragon]

I ask you, what's the use of having a perfect gaming system if you don't have anyone to play it with you?

That you totally more than compensate when you do get to play, because the game doesn't fall apart when you play it?

That I can create many more types of characters than when I play D&D?

That I already run games in an area with a limited gamer population and thus decide the type of game we'll be running, so I will have people to play it with me if I have people to play at all?

That most of us have poor organizing skills and D&D is one of the games requiring a lot of effort with minimal return?

What's the use of not having a system better than D&D?

[Oslecamo]

That you totally more than compensate when you do get to play, because the game doesn't fall apart when you play it?

If a game falls apart, it's the player's fault, not of the system itself. Every system has holes, and if the players want to exploit those holes and ruin everybody's fun at all costs, then nothing can stop the game from dying.

That I can create many more types of characters than when I play D&D?

Do you really have the time to play them all?

That I already run games in an area with a limited gamer population and thus decide the type of game we'll be running, so I will have people to play it with me if I have people to play at all?

If you were playing D&D, probably the population wouldn't be so scarce in the first place.

That most of us have poor organizing skills and D&D is one of the games requiring a lot of effort with minimal return?

Some of us actually like the book keeping, just you like don't being able to organize yourself. This is a matter of personal taste.

[Tengu_temp]

Popularity has a quality of it's own. Since D&D is more popular, it's easier to get people to play with you, wich translates in more fun, wich is the point of any game.

I ask you, what's the use of having a perfect gaming system if you don't have anyone to play it with you?

The bolded part is logically incorrect. Who cares if there is a crapload of people who want to play DND? I don't need them, I only need 3-6 people to form a group. And it's even easier if you play with people you know - I don't know about your friends, but most of mine are more than willing to try out a new system they've never played before.

[The Rose Dragon]

If a game falls apart, it's the player's fault, not of the system itself. Every system has holes, and if the players want to exploit those holes and ruin everybody's fun at all costs, then nothing can stop the game from dying.

If a player can't notice that he is going to bring the game apart, then yes, it is the system's fault.

Do you really have the time to play them all?

No, but I'd like to be able to play what I want to play, which is usually not possible in D&D.

If you were playing D&D, probably the population wouldn't be so scarce in the first place.

No one in the population wants to play D&D except for that one guy who just wants to play Forgotten Realms. Most people play Vampire: the Masquerade or GURPS (or that one cyberpunk game I forget the name of).

Some of us actually like the book keeping, just you like don't being able to organize yourself. This is a matter of personal taste.

Err... what?

[Halaster]

Like some people have already said, there is no best system, but perhaps there is a "most universal" system. I wouldn't claim to know what that is, but in my experience, GURPS comes close, if you are willing to take on the customization effort (which is significantly less than in other games).
Other games that try to solve all problems with a single ruleset would include Savage Worlds (very combat-oriented ruleset), Fuzion (lot's of dice if I remember right), Tri-stat (very simple ruleset).

So, whenever you look for something off the beaten path, look to GURPS first, unless you seek to keep the rules load very light. In that case, you should consider some free-form approach. I remember a very short rulebook I found on the internet (forgot the name though), in which you just listed what your character could do and added adjectives that translated into die types (awful - d4, average d6 and so on). Then, whenever something happened, the GM would make you roll such a die, compare it to a diffculty and that's it. Occasionally he would let you upgrade a skill by a die type or assign you a new one.
No character points, no levels, no 60-page combat system, no time and effort put into adapting the rules. So, even if your idea doesn't work out all that well, you still haven't lost anything.

[Kurald Galain]

perhaps there is a "most universal" system. I wouldn't claim to know what that is, but in my experience, GURPS comes close, if you are willing to take on the customization effort (which is significantly less than in other games).

Sure, but that takes tons 'n tons of source books, and it still doesn't handle certain genres very well. For obvious reasons, rules-light systems are much easier to adapt to whatever you need, and thus get much closer to being "most universal". For instance, FUDGE.

So, whenever you look for something off the beaten path, look to GURPS first,

GURPS is hardly "off the beaten path", unless by "the beaten path" you mean only D&D. The three most played RPGs out there are probably D&D, White Wolf, and GURPS, so none of those are "off" anyone's path.

[Pronounceable]

The best system ever is the homebrew I made for myself. More objectively, the best system is the one you homebrew yourself.

[Morty]

There is no "best" system. I hesitate to even call one system objectively "better" than another as it's extremely close-minded and elitist. I could list systems I like more than other systems, but they wouldn't be "better", just ones that I like to play. Sure, it's fun to say "lulz ur so stupid to play X instead of Y because Y is bettah" but it's not my kind of fun.

[Ichneumon]

I've been reading some stuff and think I would give True20 a try, any thoughts on that? It seems to be a quite genre neutral system, although I'm a bit unsure as it is really a lot like d20 system (which I like).

[Tengu_temp]

Mutants and Masterminds is D20 as well, if you want an open system that bases on this mechanic. Just sayin', because I don't have any experience with True20, other than the hints that suggest these two are pretty similar.

[The Rose Dragon]

It has a good number of d20's problems removed, though it would be incorrect to say it didn't add any new ones. That said, it works for a greater range of games than d20 Modern and D&D do, and already has a number of good settings out for it (though the support is generally much lower than D&D).

Exalted has an awesome mechanic for what it's supposed to represent, for example, but wouldn't really work for a cyberpunk game.

It can handle the cyber part relatively well, actually, if you extend the tattoo artifact background and refluff it. It even has five-shot revolvers and hand cannons that shoot fiery jets of fire at your enemies. It just defaults to post-apoc heroic games.

[erikun]

Some of my favorites are the various World of Darkness and Shadowrun games, although I'm sure there are other systems that work just as well.

I'm afraid I've never played (or even seen) True20, so I can't really comment on it.

[Tengu_temp]

It can handle the cyber part relatively well, actually, if you extend the tattoo artifact background and refluff it. It even has five-shot revolvers and hand cannons that shoot fiery jets of fire at your enemies. It just defaults to post-apoc heroic games.

Yeah, but the danger typical enemies possess should be much higher in a cyberpunk game than it is in Exalted, and you'd have to scrap charms. After all this, you basically have a WoD game with no supers - and combat isn't lethal enough in WoD.

Also, I wouldn't call Exalted a post-apocalyptic game. There have been at least three ground-breaking catastrophies in Creation's history, but the last one of them happened over 800 years ago.

[Tsotha-lanti]

What's "best" ?

The ones I've played most are RuneQuest and D&D (Red Box, AD&D 2E, 3.0, 3.5), but the former is mostly about the setting and the latter is actually mechanically awful IMO.

The best mechanics are in The Riddle of Steel (best melee combat simulation ever), Twilight 2013 (best small arms combat simulation ever), and HeroQuest (née Hero Wars; best adaptation to rules of the best setting ever). Trail of Cthulhu has the cleverest mystery investigation mechanic - simple yet elegant. But I also love Unisystem for being so versatile - it's not best at anything, but it's better balanced than TROS and TW2013, able to handle everything from fantasy to modern to scifi, from zombie apocalypse to gothic horror to classic swords & sorcery to ... just about anything else.

But settings are as important, or more important. The best one is Glorantha, hands down - you can not beat the living myth feel, the real sense of being involved in a world that's more fantastic than Norse legends and more epic than Homeros. Then there's the 2020s world of Cyberpunk 2020, which has so much potential for me. Ravenloft and Dark Sun are the very best D&D settings (and done great injustice by the game system they're for).

Edit: Oh, and yes, Mutants & Masterminds (second edition only, the first was so bad I never picked the book up again) is the best superhero game, with smooth and elegant execution; the mechanics are adaptable, but other mechanics adapt more easily.

[ghost_warlock]

Hi,

I would like to know what you think is the best rpg-system. Is it True20, D20, maybe Gurps. What do you think are the advantages?

Personally, I'm searching for a good system to use in a play-by-post used-future distopian space opera kind of game. Still haven't decided what to use.

Personally, myself and the people I game with would say that Alternity is the 'best' rpg-system for the type of game you described. Even though the spaceship rules are "meh" at best and "arrrgh!" at worst. It's the system we've used for StarWars, Fallout, ALIENS vs. Predator, StarGate, and other sci-fi, post-apocalyptic, and zero-to-low-magic games.

[Kurald Galain]

Personally, myself and the people I game with would say that Alternity is the 'best' rpg-system for the type of game you described.

Really? With its unnecessarily convoluted character generation, clunky resolution mechanic, and unbalanced stats, I am surprised that this can be considered the "best" for anything at all. It's basically a failed experiment by TSR to revise the D&D rules, with some space bits tacked on (just like how Tome of Battle was an experiment on third edition, only that one worked).

[wizuriel]

anyone tried alpha omega?

[ghost_warlock]

Really? With its unnecessarily convoluted character generation, clunky resolution mechanic, and unbalanced stats, I am surprised that this can be considered the "best" for anything at all. It's basically a failed experiment by TSR to revise the D&D rules, with some space bits tacked on (just like how Tome of Battle was an experiment on third edition, only that one worked).

How is the character generation any more convoluted than any other RPG? You choose a race, determine attributes via point-buy, choose a class, and spend skill points (number to spend based on Int). Different classes and races have different advantages/disadvantages but that's pretty standard.

Resolution mechanic, at heart, was just 1d20 +/- modifiers, roll low. Success was grouped into degrees of success rather than being simply pass/fail.

How are the stats any more unbalanced than any edition of D&D?

[Nerd-o-rama]

Every game system has its strengths and weaknesses, and each one is more suited to a different style or genre of play.

That said, Mutants & Masterminds.