Zombie hordes, how do they work?

[Frogwarrior]

I'm curious how (in 3.5) one can amass large quantities of undead minions, if you can only control 4 HD per caster level. Such as in the attack on Azure City, when there were several hundred ghouls at the least (see OOTS #300) - would that be only possible with many other unnamed high-enough-level clerics?

I'm running a campaign with my lil' brother, in which villains he hasn't met with use undead, but I'm not sure how this would work - but I decided their MO would be to just make way too many undead to control, lure them into the enemy camp, then waltz in later to clean up.

Also, out of curiosity, would a cleric with the Evil domain get to control an extra 4 HD of undead, since Animate Dead is an Evil spell?

[Raharu]

I don't have the rules in front of me, but I have a feeling we're gonna be fudging a little bit to make this work anyway.

I think you're on the right track with your idea. Raise as many undead as you like, but only control 4HD/level. Heck, you probably don't even need control of those. Like you said, lure them in a direction, and let "nature" take care of the rest. The zombies won't be particularly intelligent or driven since the caster isn't directly controlling them, but heck... that's not exactly what zombies are known for, now is it ?

A problem arises when we consider that "Control 4HD undead minions" could be taken to mean "magically keep 4HD of undead minions from falling apart."

But since you're DM, what you say will go!

[Salt_Crow]

Well since all the 'extra' undeads are not under your control, you'd have a few zombies/skeletons trying to rip you apart ;)

Anyways, I'd say it's more of a DM fiat with something like the seige of AC.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

First off, there is Rebuke Undead.
Then, you can take control of things like Wights and Shadows that can Spawn. You control one, it controls it's kids, and they control more.
And there's always having lesser Clerics control some for you.
Not to mention the Spell Command Undead.
And Allying with intelligent undead, and threatining to Control them completely if they disobey.

And of course, there's just getting your entire army the Lich Loved feat, and then using your controlled undead to guide the rest.

[kirbsys]

A shield and suit of armor with this enchantment would help a bit. In battle Fell Animated spells work wonders, not only does it create zombies and skeletons, it creates them in the middle of troops. Schmooks that have levels in cleric and/or wizard help, as does the Undead Leadership feat. While you can't have mindless cohorts, the followers can very well be. Once you get to Leadership score of 21 you can even have followers that can take Leadership leading to a nice chain effect. Ghouls, wraiths, and other Undead that create spawn can also chain, though entire portions of your army leave your control in the event of one of your high ups dieing.

All that being said, sometimes DM fiat is not only the easiest way to do something, it's the best way to do something.

[Coidzor]

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=632562

Tome of Necromancy might have some answers/suggestions for you.

Say, they create the zombies and they can choose to resume command of them as long as they're not taken in by another or destroyed, and so they can give a general order like, say, "CHARGE AND EAT THE BRAINS OF THE LIVING PEOPLE IN BLUE!" to large numbers before releasing them from active command.

[Juggernaut1981]

Generally the cliched "zombie horde" would work something like this.

Step 1: Summon buckets of zombies (enough to just max out your 4HD/level control requirement)
Step 2: Using your control of them, put them near the city and walk away while using your control to keep them there.
Step 3: Rinse & Repeat

Because then the necromancy only needs to be further away from the zombies then the city people are. Then you just let the zombies do what zombies do best... eat people. Other options include putting down some of those "zone of zombies don't like being here" to funnel them at the city gates and everything is gravy.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

I'm curious how (in 3.5) one can amass large quantities of undead minions, if you can only control 4 HD per caster level. Such as in the attack on Azure City, when there were several hundred ghouls at the least (see OOTS #300) - would that be only possible with many other unnamed high-enough-level clerics?

I'm running a campaign with my lil' brother, in which villains he hasn't met with use undead, but I'm not sure how this would work - but I decided their MO would be to just make way too many undead to control, lure them into the enemy camp, then waltz in later to clean up.

Also, out of curiosity, would a cleric with the Evil domain get to control an extra 4 HD of undead, since Animate Dead is an Evil spell?

As a DM, let your NPC can "control" as many undead as you want it to control...assuming you want to run a game and not just build a DM PC. But it's not a stretch either of suspension of disbelief or imagination either.

A big bad evil guy may have intelligent undead that are it's "followers". Ghouls might follow an evil cleric the same way orc warriors might follow an orc chief.

For unintelligent undead like zombies or skeletons, leaving them "uncontrolled" is a fine option. But "uncontrolled" undead could be interpreted as just following their last given commands. So you could rule that zombies turned (or animated) and commanded to attack a town would continue to do so even if the evil cleric lost "control" by turning (or animating) other undead. The evil cleric cannot stop the assault of the "uncontrolled" zombies until he regains control (burns a turn attempt).

Or you could just say all these undead are acting under the direction of an evil diety.

As far as specific rules, there's plenty from the core and from various source books. For ex an evil cleric can control a certain amount of undead through animation, another seperate amount through turning. There can be more than one evil cleric/wizard can be working in concert.

The evil cleric could use Leadership to get undead cohorts and followers. (Edit: these would be seperate from either animated or turned undead)Libris Mortis had rules for this if you need them explicitly laid out.

The SRD has feats like extra turning or improved turning to help the cleric with controlling undead. There is also the epic feat undead mastery which lets you control 10xHD of undead (you could give that to a vampire cleric for ex).

The cleric can boost his control with items. A bead of karma increases caster level by 4 and a rod of undead mastery increases turning by 4 levels.

[Oblivious]

Collect a whole bunch of low level clerics and have each of them control a portion.

[Myrmex]

Ghouls have int scores, so can presumably be incentivized.

[Ganurath]

1. Cast Control Undead on a Wight.
2. Order Wight to have its spawn obey you.
3. Order Wight to relay this order and the previous order to its spawn.
4. Lead Wight into a large city.
5. ???
6. Profit.

[Gaiyamato]

#1: Become an undead. Necropolitan is awesome. Actuall.. start as an undead. Take a level 1 Human Wizard. Then become a necropolitan. Easy if you start above level 1. You lose 2 Con instead of a level but then lose a Con score entirely. Meaning it is an LA +0 adjustment. Then advance in wizard (or as I have laid out below).

#2: Get Undead leadership at level 6 and make sure your Cohort and ALL of your followers are Wizard or Death Delver Necropolitans. They will all be loyal to you. As good as using your control limit.

#3: Get the rod that gives you 8HD/HD of undead to control. If you can get more, give them to your followers. Use the Armor that grants an extra 26HD of undead as well if able. give that to your followers/cohort(s) is you can get hold of any more.

#4: Use your entire control HD on controlling more necropolitan Wizards/Death Delvers. See parts of step 3 for equiping followers.

#5: Have the lower half of your followers and all of your controlled Necropolitans control Zombies. Have the higher level followers and your cohort control more lower level necropolitans, who in turn control Zombies.

By level 9 you can get tens of thousands of zombies/skeletons if you are clever enough and yuo control them all in effect.

Note: Medium Skeletons are 1HD, Medium Zombies are 2HD. Control Skeletons over zombies for superior numbers, Zombies over Skeletons for superior HP and survivability.

For elites use spawn creation monsters. Wraiths, Wights are awesome.
Take just a few as they will eat away your numbers fast at first. Get your Cohort to control them is best.
They then in turn control a pile of spawn. If they can take one or two class levels in Wizard then they can control some more skeletons as well making them an awesome investment. This is probably unlikely though.

Take feats such as Extra followers, Skill Focus (Diplomacy) etc.
War Weaver is an awesome prestige class to consider.

I would go:

Necromancer 3 (use UA variant if able) / Master Specialist 3 / Spell Master 3 (from TQWHII)(for free second Cohort spellcaster) / Warweaver 5

If you do this and gain the free spellcasting Cohort make him the Necropolitan Wizard and use your Undead Cohort for a death knight.

Un-turnable and attracts a lot of varied and free undead (ghouls and all. great for making huge armies of ghouls loyal to the death knight who is in turn loyal to you). Give him ranks in something that can command and/or rebuke undead such as Black Guard when able.

Get as high Diplomacy and spellcraft skills as possible to ensure better control over the more free-willed undead.

Also as to why I say use Death delvers for clerical types. They get Rebuke undead, some okayish divine spells but are not tied to any sort of god. Use them to form a death cult worshipping you.

Shadowcaster 2/ Death Delver 2 is perfect for a level 4 follower. Use full progression Wizards for all other followers.

Another useful thing to remember is violet rain from BoVD. Messes up enemy Clerics using Turning (in fact for everything). So if you make your entire force pure Arcane and can somehow get the divine spell to create a magical storm on your spell list then summon that storm and move it over a city.
Unleash plagues of summoned plague bearing rats to thin out the defenders and then strike with the hoard.
The enemy Clerics and Paladins will be powerless to stop you and the city/town/whatever will fall underneath your onslaught.

Infiltrate some of your medium level followers before hand so they can raise the plague victims as fresh zombies right before the battle.
Attack from within!!

[Emy]

You lose 2 Con instead of a level but then lose a Con score entirely.

Hold it. Why would this character be losing Con?

[ZeroNumerous]

Take a level 1 Human Wizard. Then become a necropolitan.

Doesn't work. Necropolitan strictly states that you must be level 2 to survive the ritual because it costs you a level and will kill you if you are not level 2.

As for how Zombie Hordes work: Dread Necromancer 8. Control 4+CHA*CL of undead.

[Talic]

Dread Necro is a good start.

Mystic Theurge is another. Two seperate Caster levels, with Practiced spellcaster on each. Now it's 8 HD per level. If one side's based on Dread Necro? 8+Cha per level.

Now there are items that increase the HD someone can control. Why, that'd work for both sides of the build.

Now, assuming Tsukiko is a level 16, CL 16/CL 16 (7th level spells)... That's 128 HD without anything to increase.

Now instead, let's take a Dread Necro/Favored Soul/MT 8. Still CL 16, but assume Cha is a 28, after enhancement.
4+4+9=17hd/lvl... Total? 272 HD.

And that's without items.

[Gralamin]

Hold it. Why would this character be losing Con?

He's trying to use rules found in Raise Dead to apply to a completely different situation.

[Leon]

Ghouls have int scores, so can presumably be incentivized.

Massive all you can eat buffet on the other side

[Gaiyamato]

He's trying to use rules found in Raise Dead to apply to a completely different situation.

Because the rules in Libris mortis make no sense as to why the race is listed as LA +0. Just about everyone I know plays the necropolitan that way, and for a reason I shall sum up at the end.

Have you actually TRIED reading the description of the ritual in the book? rofl.

It does not explicitly state that you need to be level two. But you must have at least 1001 exp or you die horridly. It also states that given you lose a level (if your level 2) and should get an LA +1 it somehow evens out to an LA +0. Which is stupid. It actually equates to an LA +2 as you effectively lose 2 class levels to the process (one through level loss and another through having to spend exp on LA).

So for it to make any sense at all for a low level character, just about everyone I have played Necropolitans with, which is a heck of a lot over the years, online and offline, plays it as a simple LA +0 template that can be applied to any race, explaining it away with the con loss. Which is what Wizards also do on thier website... though they also completely mess that up by throwing the other stuff into the fluff fix attempt as well.
The updated Libris Mortis which I have in electronic format (with the updates applied) mentioned the -2 con loss as well. Though it fails to explain HOW the con loss comes about as it applied it to all characters of all levels.
so I just pinch the Raise dead and fluff it myself from there.

The whole thing is retarded.

As was said by Andrew Finch (one of the developers for the book). "Just ingore all of the fluff and use it as an LA +0 racial template. That is how we play tested it ourselves before the book was published and is how it is meant to be used."


Another easy solution is apply it at level 3+ and pay the silly 1000xp cost and ignore everything.
------

So ignoring all of that stupidity.. no other comments on the easy solution to getting an undead hoard by RAW? lol.

------

Dread necro is bad. You have such a limited list of spells and horrid spell progression that you cannot get the create undead spells at a decent level.
All of the class abilities are really totally awesome. But for making an undead hoard I would avoid it.
That said the dread necro is a much much better version of a sorcerer in this instance. Wizard is the best, followed by Cleric.
Though if you do not want religion getting in the way use Death Delver like I mentioned before. Though that class is better for the NPCs not you as it is also not so great... Stick to Wizard or Cleric.

Talic the Mystic Theurge does not work because you are not altering class levels or HD (depending on what contradictory rules for controlling undead you use). So you are gaining the same as a full progression caster.. but without the spellcasting power.

Mystic theurge loses, it never makes the cut.
True Necromancer is the only way to go if you go down that path.

Also you aplpy items that increase HD to the characters total, not to each "side" of a multiclass character.. who has no sides anyway. :P
So it still winds up the same.

There are a couple of ways to get 10x instead of 4 or 8. One involved being epic. The other is a cool prestige class. Which I have completely forgotten the name of.... If anyone can remember it I would be grateful. lol.

I have too many books. :P
I cannot find anything anymore.

[paddyfool]

You could always just make up some new item or whatever to enable greater zombie control, e.g.:

Black top hat of Legba. While the wearer is controlling undead, all zombies and zombie creatures count as one HD lower than standard (minimum 1) when determining how many may be controlled.

Adjust to fit the number of zombies required. I don't know how you'd cost it, however.

[Gaiyamato]

Sounds like a cool item to me. :)

[Salt_Crow]

I'd say you could apply Mob rules from DMG2 as well.

[Gaiyamato]

Reading the revised necromancer handbook I am not sure why he says that the True Necromancer is worse than the Mystic Theurge? Sure it does actually suck total ass compared to a pure cleric or pure wizard.

Also the cleric is only slightly better as a necromancer. A necromancer (wizard) specialist has a few more spells of use than a cleric in this area and has access to some damn cool prestige classes (and cool class options). Whereas the cleric, while being slightly better overall if you go pure wizard actually winds up being a tiny bit weaker in the end with the only exception of rebuke undead.
Rebuke undead is ALL it has going for it over Wizard at high levels. Which is a pretty good boon I will say. But I think they wind up benig about the same in over-all Undead commander power by about level 12.


Anyways, back to Mystic Theurge vs True Necromancer also known as Totally Lame vs Slightly Gimped.

Mystic Theurge earliest entry unless you use some outright stupid feat tricks is level 7. This is exactly the same for True Necromancer.
The true necromancer loses two double progression levels over the Mystic theurge, but he makes up for this with having extra rebuke undead uses, more powerful rebuke undead, the ability to create undead virtually at will and a nice caster level boost in necromancy spells. The mystic theurge ONLY gets spell progression. Which is really lame for a multi class lord of the undead.

However with just one feat I can enter True Necromancer at level 5.

Alternate Source Spell

Level 1: Cloistered Cleric 1 - Rebuke Undead, Death Domain, Undeath Domain, Knowledge Domain
feats: Blah blah blah....
Level 2: Wizard 1
Level 3: Wizard 2
feat: Alternate Source Spell (can now memoirise his Wizard spells as divine spells using his wizard spell slots, really useless ability in this case, but it gives him entry into True Necromancer)
Level 4: Wizard 3
Level 5: True Necromancer 1 (+1 Cleric progression)
Level 6: True Necromancer 2 (+1 Wizard Progression)
feat: ?? whatever...
Level 7: True Necromancer 3 (+1 Cleric and Wizard progression)

So you are:

Level 2 Cleric for spell progression.
Rebuke undead as a level 4 Cleric.
Level 5 wizard for spell progression.
Control undead numbers as a level 7 character.
Create Undead 1/day at will.
+1 CL to all Necromancy spells.

For a mystic theurge:

Level 4 Cleric for spell progression
Rebuke Undead as a level 3 Cleric.
Level 4 Wizard for spell progression
Control undead numbers as a level 7 character.
nothing else..

The same level True Necromancer has access to 3rd level spells, which the mystic theurge does not and Rebukes one level higher.
The discrepencies get even worse at higher levels.

Both are a bad idea compared to a full caster progression.
But Mystic Theurge ALWAYS loses out.

[shadow_archmagi]

As stated before, Ghouls are intelligent (MM entry says 13, which makes the average ghoul population cleverer than the average human population) so Xykon wouldn't have much trouble going "Join the Evil League of Evil!"

[wizuriel]

ravenloft had a zombie lord that could control all zombie in sight. Get a few of those and control them to control the horde

[Frogwarrior]

Man, these are pretty sweet ideas
Though, I should prolly have said that the characters in specific doing this are nothing special - level 8 sorcerer, level 9 cleric (with a few nonmagical allies). Sadly, not high enoudh to use Control Undead.

With this in mind, just saying "they can control lots of undead" leaves a bit of a sore taste in my mouth - although it is ENTIRELY my prerogative as DM, I prefer to come up with something consistent, and there's really no reason for these people to have some sort of natural undead affinity or the blessing of some evil god - they just think this MO is really useful, and fun to boot.

I figured they'd raise 4 HD/level each of undead, lure them into a secure area (like, have them jump into a pit with a gate), raise 4 HD/level each more undead, rinse and repeat. Then, open the gate, and (this is the important part) lure them on foot to where they want the undead to attack. Wait, then waltz in with their 4 HD/level of controlled undead to mop up.



Annnd, this thread reminds me of just how much I want to play in a higher-level campaign, especially with access to some of these funky books - I personally own a total of zero official D&D books, and rely on d20srd and what I've seen in PHB and DMG owned by other people. Oh well, maybe someday.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Because the rules in Libris mortis make no sense as to why the race is listed as LA +0. Just about everyone I know plays the necropolitan that way, and for a reason I shall sum up at the end.

Have you actually TRIED reading the description of the ritual in the book? rofl.

It does not explicitly state that you need to be level two. But you must have at least 1001 exp or you die horridly. It also states that given you lose a level (if your level 2) and should get an LA +1 it somehow evens out to an LA +0. Which is stupid. It actually equates to an LA +2 as you effectively lose 2 class levels to the process (one through level loss and another through having to spend exp on LA).

So for it to make any sense at all for a low level character, just about everyone I have played Necropolitans with, which is a heck of a lot over the years, online and offline, plays it as a simple LA +0 template that can be applied to any race, explaining it away with the con loss. Which is what Wizards also do on thier website... though they also completely mess that up by throwing the other stuff into the fluff fix attempt as well.
The updated Libris Mortis which I have in electronic format (with the updates applied) mentioned the -2 con loss as well. Though it fails to explain HOW the con loss comes about as it applied it to all characters of all levels.
so I just pinch the Raise dead and fluff it myself from there.

Re-read it. You lose 1 level and an additional 1000 XP. No LA involved anywhere.

Dread necro is bad. You have such a limited list of spells and horrid spell progression that you cannot get the create undead spells at a decent level.

You know just about all necro spells at the same levels as a Sorcerer. Yeah, you don't get all the non-core ones, but for pure necromancy, it's well worth it. Especially since you're a Cha-focused caster who can Rebuke Undead and controls (4+Cha)*level undead. At level 8, that's easily 72 HD, and possibly 88, before adding undead-controlling items.

Mystic theurge loses, it never makes the cut.
True Necromancer is the only way to go if you go down that path.
...
Mystic Theurge earliest entry unless you use some outright stupid feat tricks is level 7. This is exactly the same for True Necromancer.
The true necromancer loses two double progression levels over the Mystic theurge, but he makes up for this with having extra rebuke undead uses, more powerful rebuke undead, the ability to create undead virtually at will and a nice caster level boost in necromancy spells. The mystic theurge ONLY gets spell progression. Which is really lame for a multi class lord of the undead.

However with just one feat I can enter True Necromancer at level 5.

And with the same trick you can enter MT at 5. Look at the spellcasting progression of a True Necromancer. Yes, Mystic Theurge sucks. True Necro loses even more casting(5 SPELL LEVELS PER CLASS[or 5 Cleric/3 Wizard with trickiness]). True Necro gets 8th level spells at level 20. That is sad and pathetic. You'll never be able to rebuke anyways, so the bonus doesn't help. There is no way in which the class redeems itself. Anything you want to do can be done better by someone else, like taking Alternate Source Spell for early entry into MT. NOTHING IS WORTH LOST SPELLCASTING LEVELS.

Also, don't used retarded as a derogatory.

[Indon]

Both are a bad idea compared to a full caster progression.
But Mystic Theurge ALWAYS loses out.

Hey, uh, in your example, unless the prestige class grants it as an SLA, I don't think your True Necromancer you list as an example can actually cast Animate Dead. You'd need to be Cleric CL 5 or Wizard CL 7 to access it. Your Mystic Theurge can't either, but he'll gain access to it sooner as he's casting as Cleric CL4. And unless those caster level boosts are really big in the True Necromancer class, they don't actually even make up for losing the actual caster level progression.

Please note that Animate Dead and the spells in its' line are based on CL - a double progression would thus allow you to control 8 additional HD of undead with each level of Mystic Theurge.

Is the (4+Cha)/level rule for Dread Necromancer based on class level, or caster level? If it's class level based, there's never any reason to try to branch off into Mystic Theurge to gain more undead minions, just do anything you can to pump your Cha instead.

If it's caster level based, though, then mystic theurge would continue to increase it while also increasing a potential Cleric casting progression.

[Gaiyamato]

Hey, uh, in your example, unless the prestige class grants it as an SLA, I don't think your True Necromancer you list as an example can actually cast Animate Dead. You'd need to be Cleric CL 5 or Wizard CL 7 to access it. Your Mystic Theurge can't either, but he'll gain access to it sooner as he's casting as Cleric CL4. And unless those caster level boosts are really big in the True Necromancer class, they don't actually even make up for losing the actual caster level progression.

There are many ways to get a CL boost.
Also just casting Animate Dead is a really bad way of getting a zombie hoard given the costs, unless you have your own mines. Fine for a small group of undead though. So really I do not care a hoot about getting Animate Dead a little slower. It is a really bad and virtually useless spell for making very large groups of Undead.
Wights are the only undead worth making using spells unless it is an emergency or as I said, you have your own mining company.

But animate dead becomes really really bad beyond about the 20th zombie.
Using Animate Dead SLA or Fell animate are better options. Though you need to build to use Fell Animate effectively as the +3 Spell level is a huge pain.
Two levels of Pale master is completely worth it and gives you animate Dead much faster than you normally would get it. You lose only one spell level progression however.

The true Necromancer and Mstic Theurge are both really really bad ideas.
But from personal experience the True Necromancer works out slightly better.
But only if you stop advancing in True Necromancer before you lose the next Progression level at level 6 TN. Which I will agree does completely nerf the TN. From there you have to go with Mystic Theurge which sucks. But 5 levels of TN is a good boost to a multi-class Necromancer given the Caster Level Boost, free create undead and free desecration ability. They can be used to do some very funk stuff. I've wiped out whole cities using a True Necromancer before. You also wind up with a MUCH better rebuke undead level than the Mystic Theurge.

But yes, from a pure spell progression level issue and if you presume full advancement in the prestige class then True Necromancer is worse.

Please note that Animate Dead and the spells in its' line are based on CL - a double progression would thus allow you to control 8 additional HD of undead with each level of Mystic Theurge.

PHB 3.5 states that you use the CL of whatever spellcasting class you are currently casting from to determine the number of undead you can control.
(Note there are rule sources which use Character level or your own HD instead of CL. Looking it up now - which I should have done last night - these are all 3.0 sources and are wrong. lol.)
The spell also groups ALL undead you control no matter what the source when making undead.
This is a mistake that a lot of people make. Multiclass Undead commanders totally suck.
If you are able to animate dead from both classes you count the number of undead controlled from one to the other in each total each time you cast animate dead (or anything similar).
This means that while TECHNICALLY you may control 8HD worth you really only control 4HD x highest CL.

It does say that you can ignore the Cleric Rebuked undead with the total. Which makes a good argument to be a Cleric. Unfortunately Dread Necromancer and any other class that gains Rebuke undead does not benefit from this as it states only Clerics (unless you have a nice DM).
Also if you look at what you can actually Rebuke. Aside from free Zombies it really does suck unless you can get a titanic Rebuke Level.
Rebuking is a cool little bonus but it is not all that good.

Also a multi class controller has a much lower CL usually than a pure class caster. So you are losing out on a LOT of undead control potential.
Being a Mystic Theurge or True Necromancer is a really really stupid idea.
I've played it out.. unless you do funky tricks with the True Necromancer you just spend the entire game sucking.

Is the (4+Cha)/level rule for Dread Necromancer based on class level, or caster level? If it's class level based, there's never any reason to try to branch off into Mystic Theurge to gain more undead minions, just do anything you can to pump your Cha instead.

Correct.
If your Going Dread Necromancer/Sorcerer you are delaying your ability to actually be useful by a further level however.
Really it is almost as bad an idea as multi classing. Though not quite as bad if you use the Dread Necromancer because you have Rebuke undead.
Never advance beyond 8th level, always prestige class out as the other abilities are totally not worth it.

Because as you pointed out it is based on class level the Dread Necromancer gains a small boost for a much delayed casting progression.
Meaning the whole idea is actually really bad.
It's only saving grace is being an Arcane Caster who uses CHA and has Rebuke Undead. All of which are really useful for commandnig legions of the dead.

Undead Mastery: All undead creatures created by a dread
necromancer who has reached 8th level or higher gain a
+4 enhancement bonus to Strength and Dexterity and 2
additional hit points per Hit Die.
In addition, when a dread necromancer uses the animate
dead spell to create undead, she can control 4 + her Charisma
bonus HD worth of undead creatures per class level (rather
than the 4 HD per level normally granted by the spell).
Similarly, when a dread necromancer casts the control undead
spell, the spell targets up to (2 + her Cha bonus) HD/level
of undead creatures, rather than the 2 HD/level normally
granted by the spell.

If it's caster level based, though, then mystic theurge would continue to increase it while also increasing a potential Cleric casting progression.

Except that you lose Caster levels in order to get into mystic theurge.
And it isn't. It is based of DN class levels. Which means as soon as you multi-class or prestige class out it sucks.

On a side note Ultimate Magus with a Dread Necromancer could be an alright idea though. Mind you, still not great. But you get a single combined Arcane Caster Level, effectively stacking your arcane class levels together so you do not lose out on the number of undead you control. To make it sweeter you also gain a direct boost to that level. If you use Dread Necromancer and Corrupt Arcana to get into the class you lose no spell progression and get an awesome CL boost.

Dread Necromancer 8 + Ultimate Magus 10
Feats:Corrupt Arcana (let's you prepare corrupt spells from a spellbook or scroll)

At level 18 has (without feats or items to assist) a CL of 22.
So has (22 + (8*(4+CHA)))*X (Where X is multiplier, either 4, 8 or 10) HD of Undead. Rebuke undead as 8th level.

Probably the only way to go with Dread Necromancer to make up for one level slower Spell progression with an Arcane caster class and no necromancy specialisation.

I would still go with a specialist Wizard or a Cleric. I personally have found that the specialist Wizard works out slightly better in the long run.

A Cleric can do some funky stuff with Chill of the Grave + Fell animate + Divine Metamagic and a village full of unsuspecting commoners however.

---

Also I did not intend to offend anyone with the Gimp remark. Sorry abut that.

[Stormthorn]

Two words: Horned Harbinger.

At level 10 you control 10 times your HD and you get spellcasting progression and others goodies.

Perhaps Dread Necro 5, Cleric 10, Horned Harbinger 10

Then you can always hir eintelligent undead as Mercs.

[ZeroNumerous]

Have you actually TRIED reading the description of the ritual in the book? rofl.

It does not explicitly state that you need to be level two. But you must have at least 1001 exp or you die horridly.

0-999 XP: Level 1
1000-3000 XP: Level 2

As for your hatred for Dread Necromancer: The idea is behind zombie hordes. I don't care what class you are, but a level 8+ Dread Necromancer will always make a bigger zombie horde than you.