Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 34
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Totally Guy's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Male

    Default [3.5]Touch Attack Arcane Spellcaster

    I was trying to think how I could play a slightly different wizard or sorcerer and I liked the thought of using lots of touch attack spells.

    How would I go about making a character like this? He'd need to be tough enough to be close to the enemies and have enough BAB to hit. But he'd also need the spell levels.

    Am I asking for too much?

    I've the PHB to hand but the DM has all sorts of other books... but I'm unsure which ones. The PHB 2 and Arcane power I think are amongst them somewhere.

    It'll probably be a low level game up to about 6 or so, so maybe the BAB deficit won't be so important.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5]Touch Attack Arcane Spellcaster

    Definately play a halfling or some other small race with a dex bonus. The ac and dex bonus will come in handy at those low levels when the enemies try to hit you back. As far as hitting goes, most monsters at that level have fairly lousy touch ac so you should be fine.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Keld Denar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5]Touch Attack Arcane Spellcaster

    Maybe Duskblade? Maybe with Improved Unarmed Strike/Superior Unarmed Strike to punch people with spells?

    Maybe some sort of gish build, like Fighter1/Wizard4/Spellsword1/AbjChamp5 or something?
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY!
    _________________________________
    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

  4. - Top - End - #4

    Default Re: [3.5]Touch Attack Arcane Spellcaster

    Quickened true strikes all the way.

    Divine Power wouldnt hurt either, if you can either get a cleric to buff you or just limited wish it on. (or use recaster or wyrm wizard to get it on your spell list)

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    HamsterOfTheGod's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5]Touch Attack Arcane Spellcaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Glug View Post
    I was trying to think how I could play a slightly different wizard or sorcerer and I liked the thought of using lots of touch attack spells.

    How would I go about making a character like this? He'd need to be tough enough to be close to the enemies and have enough BAB to hit. But he'd also need the spell levels.

    Am I asking for too much?

    I've the PHB to hand but the DM has all sorts of other books... but I'm unsure which ones. The PHB 2 and Arcane power I think are amongst them somewhere.

    It'll probably be a low level game up to about 6 or so, so maybe the BAB deficit won't be so important.
    A low level you won't be able to use it much since you have limited spells per day and touch spells are not great at low level. Consider the case of a sorcerer (but same goes for wizard, cleric, etc).

    First, spell choice: At first level you get two spells. So to stay with your theme you can take chill touch or shoking grasp. But to be useful, pick cause fear or color spray or sleep as your second spell. This same choice goes for mid levels. So for ex, you can pick bestow curse or poison, not both because there are other non-touch offensive options that are as good or better.

    However at vey high level, touch spells are some of the best spells.

    Second, making the touch: You can optimize to make and survive touch attacks but it will always be dangerous. First, I would recommend getting weapon finesse (edit: requires BAB +1) so you can add your dex bonus to touch attacks.

    Another option is to use your familiar starting at 3rd level to deliver touch spells. This can be dangerous too but if done in the right circumstances, it can be a good choice. This especially becomes good at level 6 or so when you can pick an improved familiar like an earth or air elemental or imp or quasit that can conceal themselves before they deliver their touch attack.

    At 6 level you can also opt for the Reach Spell metagic feat from Complete Divine which for a +2 to spell level let's you make the touch attack from 30 feet away. For our sorcerer example, this will be a full round action unless he also takes the Rapid Metamagic feat from Complete Mage (available starting at 9th level). You may also want to explore the various ways to reduce the meta-magic cost.

    The other way to get reach for touch spells is to opt to become an Archmage. This is not available until level 15 or 16 but it's great when you get it because the Arcane Reach High Arcana has not spell level or casting time cost. Arcane Reach combined with high level touch spells like irresistable dance or imprisonment is a really excellent attack (edit: especially with quickened true strike).

    Putting it together: So consider our Sorcerer example. At first level you could take halfling and arrange the scores as follows Str 8 Dex 15 Con 14 Int 12 Wis 8 Cha 15. Assume you pick weapon finesse (edit: weapon finesse requires +1 BAB) weapon focus:touch for the feat, color spray and shocking grasp. Then you have a touch attack of +1 (+4 if the opponent is wearing metal armor) for 1d6 shock damage. So use sparingly and rely on your color spray and crossbow (which is a ranged attack at +3 for 1d6 damage).

    At 3rd level you can pick a raven familiar and he can do the shocking grasp touch attack for you at +5 to hit for 3d6 shock which is much better.

    So let's fast forward to 9th level and assume your scores are Str 8 Dex 15 Con 14 Int 12 Wis 8 Cha 17, your feats are weapon finesse (edit: see above) weapon focus:touch, improved familiar (imp), reach spell and rapid metamagic, and that you have chosen the following spells:
    1 - color spray, shocking grasp, mage armor, magic missle, feather fall
    2 - scorching ray, see invisibility, ghoul touch, darkvision
    3 - fireball, fly, vampiric touch
    4 - black tentacles, greater invisibility

    So now you can make touch attacks from up to 30 feet away at +6 to hit or your imp can make them (non-ranged) for you for at +9. Your shocking grasp does 5d6 but it's a 3rd level spell if ranged. Your ghoul touch paralyzes humanoids if they fail a DC15 fort save but it's a 4th level spell if ranged. Or you can make a (non-ranged) touch attack at +6 (or +9 by your familiar) for 9d6 damage and heal half that much as a 3rd level spell.

    With greater invisibility and magic items these numbers can be improved. It's not great though...or even good...but maybe something like this is what you want.

    Again at high levels with Archmage and Arcane Reach, touch attacks are much better.

    Other low-level options: Fell Drain, Fell Weaken, etc from Libir Mortis and Arcane Thesis and other options to reduce metamagic cost. There are some combos out there that would let your a low level touch spell like chill touch do much more harm than 1d6 damage. However any such combo will also work for a spell like magic missle. Again, low-level touch spells are just not that good.
    Last edited by HamsterOfTheGod; 2009-06-24 at 07:02 PM.
    Spoiler
    Show
    OotS Fan-fiction (An alternate OotS-verse starting after page 603. If you want to read it go here)

    bad Erf-poetry

    and other sillyness.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2009

    Default Re: [3.5]Touch Attack Arcane Spellcaster

    You could be a halfling dread Necromancer from HoH. They get their nasty charnel touch at will. Use that in conjunction with weapon finesse and your quasit familiar, and you would be set. it would be even better if you could apply the Necropolitan template, since you can ignore your Con score and heal yourself with your charnel touch.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    HamsterOfTheGod's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5]Touch Attack Arcane Spellcaster

    Quote Originally Posted by VestigeArcanist View Post
    You could be a halfling dread Necromancer from HoH. They get their nasty charnel touch at will. Use that in conjunction with weapon finesse and your quasit familiar, and you would be set. it would be even better if you could apply the Necropolitan template, since you can ignore your Con score and heal yourself with your charnel touch.
    Damn it. I forgot Dread Necromancer. It's OK but again just not that uber though VestigeArcanist suggestions are very good.
    Spoiler
    Show
    OotS Fan-fiction (An alternate OotS-verse starting after page 603. If you want to read it go here)

    bad Erf-poetry

    and other sillyness.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Sunnydale

    Default Re: [3.5]Touch Attack Arcane Spellcaster

    Does it need to be an arcane spellcaster? There are several ways that being a Cleric would make the job easier:
    • Divne Power for improved BAB
    • A Cloistered Cleric with Knowledge Devotion and maximum skill ranks gets bonuses to hit everything
    • Travel Devotion to get away from the enemy after you touch them (free feat for a Cleric if you convert the Travel domain)
    • Take the Magic domain and use arcane spells up to 4th level via wands

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Banned
     
    Optimystik's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5]Touch Attack Arcane Spellcaster

    I'm not a pro at optimizing or anything, but wouldn't Enlightened Fist be good at this?

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    London, England

    Default Re: [3.5]Touch Attack Arcane Spellcaster

    Whatever build you settle for I'd recommend checking out complete mage's reserve feat "Clap of thunder" (i think) which deals a xD6 sonic touch attack (where x= level of spell with sonic descriptor held in reserve).

    I'd recomend a Gish build for front line resilience, there's little point using touch attacks if you don't have the AC/HP to stand in touch range.


    my current Gish character
    Spoiler
    Show

    My current character is doing exactly that: duskblade 5/ wizard1 / abjurant champion 5 / eldritch knight 2.
    my character also uses a blunt weapon with Greater mighty wallop for melee damage (increase size category of weapon 1/4 caster levels) and has 12 BAB, wizard CL12, wizard spells as a level 7 wizard, 32AC and about 96HP.
    Attack +19/+14/+9 (4d8+7 damage) or touch attack for 4d8 sonic damage.
    Doug

    Currently GMing :
    Moonshae Mysteries IC / OOC / Central Map / west rooms map / east rooms map
    Moonshae Tales IC / OOC / Map
    Map of Area

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Totally Guy's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5]Touch Attack Arcane Spellcaster

    I think I understand Hamster's post. So that's probably what I'll try to do.

    The group doesn't really optimise all that much anyway so I'll tend to be about the right power level.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Grad. School
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5]Touch Attack Arcane Spellcaster

    Considering how many touch spells don't offer a saving throw, I'd focus on those and buff spells. This should allow you to make Con your primary stat. In this vein, going for bunuses to HP or to attack rolls would be idea.

    Personally, I'd go orc. Put your primary stat in Con, secondary in Str and tertiary in your casting stat.

    To be honest, dwarf and gnome would also work. If you feel like going with weapon finesse than halfling would be pretty awesome. Though you'd have trouble when you run into grappling creatures.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Manchester NH
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5]Touch Attack Arcane Spellcaster

    I would sugest doing a monk/sorcerer going into some PRCs latter on...
    Halfling monk/sorcerer that is..

    Few reasons.

    1 you can deliver a touch spell as part of a unarmed strike
    2. halfling monks can get a skirmish instead of flurry which is nice so you can move and get an extra d6 dmg
    3. theres a feat called asthetic sorcer which allows some stacking of class features.

    I wouldn't take any more then 2 levels of monk but the synergies for what you want to do are great.

    Also take Weapon finese and max out dex/charisma...

    Edit:
    crap don't forget weapon focus touch attack or if you go with the monk option weapon focus unarmed strike.
    also you can deliver a stunning fist attempt while deliverying a touch attack.
    just my thoughts.
    Last edited by RagnaroksChosen; 2009-06-24 at 04:10 PM.
    When the end comes i shall remember you.

    I sorry i fail Englimish...(appologise for Spelling/Grammer Errors) Please don't correct my spelling or grammer eaither.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    HamsterOfTheGod's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5]Touch Attack Arcane Spellcaster

    RagnaroksChosen and Optymistik also make good suggestions in using a sorcerer gish build. Here is the enlightened fist optimization guide. I haven't played it. I think it works ok BIJNTU
    Spoiler
    Show
    OotS Fan-fiction (An alternate OotS-verse starting after page 603. If you want to read it go here)

    bad Erf-poetry

    and other sillyness.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5]Touch Attack Arcane Spellcaster

    How has nobody mentioned Spectral Hand yet? Make touch attacks AT RANGE with a +2 bonus. Of course, if they manage to hit its highish AC, you lose 1d4 HP, ooh.
    Quickened Spectral Hand, Touch of X. Bam.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    HamsterOfTheGod's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5]Touch Attack Arcane Spellcaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Frogwarrior View Post
    How has nobody mentioned Spectral Hand yet? Make touch attacks AT RANGE with a +2 bonus. Of course, if they manage to hit its highish AC, you lose 1d4 HP, ooh.
    Quickened Spectral Hand, Touch of X. Bam.
    Absolutely. When you can Quicken it. It's a great NPC spell though heh.
    Last edited by HamsterOfTheGod; 2009-06-24 at 05:20 PM.
    Spoiler
    Show
    OotS Fan-fiction (An alternate OotS-verse starting after page 603. If you want to read it go here)

    bad Erf-poetry

    and other sillyness.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Deth Muncher's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Virginia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5]Touch Attack Arcane Spellcaster

    Quote Originally Posted by RagnaroksChosen View Post
    3. theres a feat called asthetic sorcer which allows some stacking of class features.
    I realize the sorcerors have high CHA, but that doesn't mean they're pretty. You mean Ascetic.
    Last edited by Deth Muncher; 2009-06-24 at 05:37 PM.
    Mega-tar by AlterForm. Power Up!
    QUOTEBAWKS

    Homebrew! I also take requests!
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Xyk View Post
    I've always considered breakfast to be evil. Looking at me with it's bacon-smile, and it's sunny-side-up eyes. I know it's plotting something.
    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    ..thank you, Deth Muncher. My life is richer for being aware of this. And weirder. ("You destroyed my friends! I will have my vengeance! Face the fury of my pelvic thrusts!" "Oh yeah? LAZOR!")
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    You all are a terrible species. I'm going back to my fortress of misanthropy now.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Manchester NH
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5]Touch Attack Arcane Spellcaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Deth Muncher View Post
    I realize the sorcerors have high CHA, but that doesn't mean they're pretty. You mean Ascetic.
    although english was my first languge please treat it as my secound :)
    When the end comes i shall remember you.

    I sorry i fail Englimish...(appologise for Spelling/Grammer Errors) Please don't correct my spelling or grammer eaither.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2007

    Default Re: [3.5]Touch Attack Arcane Spellcaster

    The Spellwarp Sniper from Complete Scoundrel is a decent PrC for this sort of thing. You can take Weapon Focus: Ray as well which iirc works on all ranged touch spells.

    obnoxious
    sig
    On DMPCs: "Remember, nothing will spice up your campaign quicker than long descriptions of NPC’s doing spectacular stuff while the players sit around and watch." -Shamus Young, DM of the Rings
    Divide By Zero: Irreverent Fool, you are my hero.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Deth Muncher's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Virginia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5]Touch Attack Arcane Spellcaster

    Quote Originally Posted by RagnaroksChosen View Post
    although english was my first languge please treat it as my secound :)
    Oh, think nothing of it. In fact, you should be glad you have a legitimate excuse to make grammatical errors, unlike people who go around spelling "the" as "teh," "own" as "pwn" and "win" as "druid/cleric/wizard/artificer."
    Mega-tar by AlterForm. Power Up!
    QUOTEBAWKS

    Homebrew! I also take requests!
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Xyk View Post
    I've always considered breakfast to be evil. Looking at me with it's bacon-smile, and it's sunny-side-up eyes. I know it's plotting something.
    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    ..thank you, Deth Muncher. My life is richer for being aware of this. And weirder. ("You destroyed my friends! I will have my vengeance! Face the fury of my pelvic thrusts!" "Oh yeah? LAZOR!")
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    You all are a terrible species. I'm going back to my fortress of misanthropy now.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Orc in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Pittsburgh PA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5]Touch Attack Arcane Spellcaster

    there is a PrC that is basically a monk/wizard and you can take your spells and channel them into your fists the need is like monk2/wizardX well actually you just need the feats that you get for free from the monk class

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    HamsterOfTheGod's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5]Touch Attack Arcane Spellcaster

    Quote Originally Posted by SSGoW View Post
    there is a PrC that is basically a monk/wizard and you can take your spells and channel them into your fists the need is like monk2/wizardX well actually you just need the feats that you get for free from the monk class
    Enlightened fist from Complete Arcane. The main advantage for this gish is the Arcane Fist feature at PrC level 3 (character level 9) which lets you quicken and deliver a touch spell as part of a full round attack. The drawback is the touch spell is now being delivered through a relatively low BAB melee attack. You probably want the wraithstrike spell as soon as you can get it.
    Last edited by HamsterOfTheGod; 2009-06-24 at 06:17 PM.
    Spoiler
    Show
    OotS Fan-fiction (An alternate OotS-verse starting after page 603. If you want to read it go here)

    bad Erf-poetry

    and other sillyness.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Denton Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5]Touch Attack Arcane Spellcaster

    Quote Originally Posted by quick_comment View Post
    Quickened true strikes all the way.

    Divine Power wouldnt hurt either, if you can either get a cleric to buff you or just limited wish it on. (or use recaster or wyrm wizard to get it on your spell list)
    I made a wizard(diviner)/swordsage/jade pheonix mage who revolved around quicked true strikes.

    However I personally have always wanted to play a lich as touch attacker, the d12 is better than a d4. But if you have to be good I would go with a high dex race like halfling or kenku. Somthing without a level adjustment.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Sunnydale

    Default Re: [3.5]Touch Attack Arcane Spellcaster

    Quote Originally Posted by quick_comment View Post
    Divine Power wouldnt hurt either, if you can either get a cleric to buff you
    That's not going to work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Power
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Another character can't give you Divine Power. You need to cast it yourself.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Keld Denar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5]Touch Attack Arcane Spellcaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
    Another character can't give you Divine Power. You need to cast it yourself.
    Another player CAN give you Divine Power, but it takes a lot of work and a couple funny PrCs...

    But it is possible :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY!
    _________________________________
    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Gloucester, England
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5]Touch Attack Arcane Spellcaster

    Hi

    What about Duskblade?

    Take Arcane Disciple:Spell Domain.

    At 17th lvl (5th lvl spells) you get Gtr Anyspell. Use it to polymorph into Firbolg (MM2).
    Your 13th lvl ability allows you to channel your touch attack spells (no AoO) through your weapon for all your attacks that round!

    With no magical items except a +3 Large Greatsword (Gtr Magic Wpn)?

    Firbolg:

    Attack: +32/27/22/17
    Dam: 3D6+22 + (8D6 Vampiric Wpn) + (D6 Fire Burning Sword) + (5D6 Shocking Grasp)
    Base AC 22 (-1 Size, +1 Dex, +12 Natural)
    BAB +17
    Str 36 Dex 13 Con 23
    HP 17D8+102
    Base Saves: F 16 R 6 W 10 (plus Wis mod)

    Your own magic items will enhance this.
    Don't forget the 8D6 Vampiric damage is also added to your own HP!

    Downside is no 5th lvl spells until Duskblade 17.

    Cheers
    Paul H
    Edit; Forgot the touch spell thingy, so need to take Improved Unarmed Strike, then just Gtr Magic Wpn your fist.
    Last edited by Paul H; 2009-06-24 at 08:25 PM.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5]Touch Attack Arcane Spellcaster

    This is going to be a bit out there, but... what about a Noctumancer? Shadowcasters get some really, really nice touch attacks (the entire Touch of Twilight path is dedicated to deadly touch-range mysteries), so it's worth considering, I think, especially if your DM allows early-entry shenanigans (such as Heighten Spell + Versatile Spellcaster). If you don't care about the higher-level mysteries, you can just keep relearning your favorite Touch of Twilight mysteries and getting them quite a few times per day... or you can consider them a bonus on top of your arcane spellcasting.

    Also, I'm frankly shocked that Spell Flower hasn't been mentioned yet. Combine it with Girallon's Blessing (SpC) and Arms of Plenty (Lords of Madness) and you'll have, well, lots of touch spells available. And the best part? You can share all of those spells with your familiar. You'll never actually pull this off (this is the ridiculous best-case scenario with unlimited buffing time in which you go full nova... totally unrealistic and will never happen, but fun to daydream about), but you could theoretically cast the two arm spells and Spell Flower on yourself and your familiar, giving you each four new arms and the ability to hold one spell per arm, for a total of six different spells on you and between four to six (depending on your familiar and your DM) on your familiar, all at once, just waiting to give your opponent a hug. Totally unrealistic, but even if you can't get the best-case scenario, spell flower and the arm-granting spells will be really helpful here, I think.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently judging for round 23. Everyone is welcome! Wanna be an instant authority? Just come judge, even if it's your first time!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Midwest, not Middle East
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5]Touch Attack Arcane Spellcaster

    I'm here to argue against Weapon Finesse. Sure, at low levels that couple of extra plus to hit will be great. But after about level 10 or so, it shouldn't be very hard to make your touch attacks. That +5 or so equivalent to hit won't look as nice as more metamagic or something.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Thurbane's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Terra Australis
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5]Touch Attack Arcane Spellcaster

    Although it would struggle with number of spells known, the Battle Sorcerer variant from UA might be good for this.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    HamsterOfTheGod's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5]Touch Attack Arcane Spellcaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Glimbur View Post
    I'm here to argue against Weapon Finesse. Sure, at low levels that couple of extra plus to hit will be great. But after about level 10 or so, it shouldn't be very hard to make your touch attacks. That +5 or so equivalent to hit won't look as nice as more metamagic or something.
    Well that gets to whether the character is being built from 1st level or from higher level. Maybe the answer is to retrain later on and swap the weapon finesse/focus feats for something better when that is a viable option.

    An archmage with Arcane Reach, Imprisonment and Quickened True Strike is a good option but getting there with touch-based caster from 1st level is painful...well more painful than usual.

    I roughly took the touch-based sorcerer hafling example I used above through a few levels to see the comparisons. It's hardly an uber-build and it's not meant to show how it should be done. Rather it's meant to show spell choices (naturally) become better as level goes up.


    LE halfling Sor2
    Str 8 Dex 15 Con 14 Int 12 Wis 8 Cha 15
    Familiar: raven (no touch attack)
    Feats: weapon focus(touch)
    Spells Known:
    1 - cause fear, shocking grasp
    Gear: masterwork light crossbow, spear
    AC 13 Spd 20 Init +2 HP 10 For +3 Ref +3 Will +3
    Attack Options:
    ranged +4 1d6/18/x2
    or melee +2 1d6-1/x2
    or touch +2 (+5 vs metal armored) 2d8 shock


    LE halfling Sor9
    Str 8 Dex 15(17) Con 14 Int 12 Wis 8 Cha 17(19)
    Familiar: imp (touch attack +9)
    Feats: weapon focus(touch), improved familiar(imp), reach spell, rapid metamagic
    Spells Known:
    1 - true strike, shocking grasp, mage armor, magic missle, feather fall
    2 - ghoul touch, scorching ray, darkvision, see invisible
    3 - warcry (Book of Exalted Deeds), vampiric touch, fly
    4 - greater invisibility, black tentacles
    Gear: spear +1 of frost, ring +2, gloves of Dex+2, cloak of Cha+2,
    boots of striding and springing, amulet of natural AC +2
    AC(with mage armor) 20 Spd 30 Init +3 HP 42 For +6 Ref +7 Will +6
    Attack Options:
    melee +5 1d6+1d6x2
    or (ranged) touch +5 (+9 vs metal armored) 5d6 shock
    or (ranged) touch +5 Fort DC16 or humanoid paralyzed for 1d6+1 rounds
    or ranged touch +7/+7 4d6 fire
    or touch +5 9d6 negative energy (gain half as temporary hp)


    LE halfling Sor16
    Str 8 Dex 15(19) Con 14 Int 12 Wis 8 Cha 19(23)
    Familiar: imp (touch attack +13)
    Feats: weapon focus(touch), improved familiar(imp), reach spell, rapid metamagic, weapon finesse, silent spell
    Spells Known:
    1 - true strike, shocking grasp, mage armor, magic missle, feather fall
    2 - ghoul touch, scorching ray, darkvision, see invisible, resist elements
    3 - warcry (Book of Exalted Deeds), vampiric touch, fly, dispel magic
    4 - greater invisibility, black tentacles, detect scrying, polymorph
    5 - night's caress (Libris Mortis), teleport, storm touch (Magic of Eberron), greater blink
    6 - disintegrate, mass suggestion, summon monster VI
    7 - hiss of sleep (Spell Compendium), limited wish
    8 - irresistable dance
    Gear: spear +1 of frost, ring +5, ring of free action, gloves of Dex+4, cloak of Cha+4, boots of striding and springing, amulet of natural AC +4, lesser rod of quicken
    AC(with mage armor) 27 Spd 30 Init +3 HP 73 For +8 Ref +10 Will +10
    Attack Options (add +20 with quickened true strike 3/day):
    melee +8/+3 1d6+1d6x2
    or (ranged) touch +13 (+14 vs metal armored) 5d6 shock
    or (ranged) touch +13 Fort DC18 or humanoid paralyzed for 1d6+1 rounds
    or (ranged) touch +13 10d6 negative energy (gain half as temporary hp)
    or (ranged) touch +13 9d6 shock + stunned for 1 round
    or (ranged) touch +13 15d6 negative energy + 1d6+2 Con
    or (ranged) touch +13 undead flea in panic for 1d4 rounds
    or ranged touch +12/+12/+12 4d6 fire
    or ranged touch +12 32d6, Fort DC21 for 5d6 damage
    or touch +13 subject "dances" for 1d4+1 rounds, no save


    So now if we convert the high level sorcerer to an archmage...we find that the touch-attack caster is still better off with weapon finesse...


    LE halfling Sor14/Archmage 2
    Str 8 Dex 15(19) Con 14 Int 12 Wis 8 Cha 19(23)
    Familiar: imp (touch attack +13)
    Feats: spell focus:necromancy, improved familiar(imp), skill focus:spellcraft, rapid metamagic, spell focus:enchantment, weapon finesse
    High Arcana: Arcane Reach (cost 1 7th level spell slot), Mastery of Elements (cost 1 8th level spell slot)
    Spells Known:
    1 - true strike, shocking grasp, mage armor, magic missle, feather fall
    2 - ghoul touch, scorching ray, darkvision, see invisible, resist elements
    3 - warcry (Book of Exalted Deeds), vampiric touch, fly, dispel magic
    4 - greater invisibility, black tentacles, detect scrying, polymorph
    5 - night's caress (Libris Mortis), teleport, storm touch (Magic of Eberron), greater blink
    6 - disintegrate, mass suggestion, summon monster VI
    7 - hiss of sleep (Spell Compendium), limited wish
    8 - irresistable dance
    Gear: spear +1 of frost, ring +5, ring of free action, gloves of Dex+4, cloak of Cha+4, boots of striding and springing, amulet of natural AC +4, lesser rod of quicken
    AC(with mage armor) 27 Spd 30 Init +3 HP 73 For +7 Ref +9 Will +12
    Attack Options (add +20 with quickened true strike 3/day):
    melee +8/+3 1d6+1d6x2
    or (ranged) touch +12 (+15 vs metal armored) 5d6 energy
    or (ranged) touch +12 Fort DC19 or humanoid paralyzed for 1d6+1 rounds
    or (ranged) touch +12 10d6 negative energy (gain half as temporary hp)
    or (ranged) touch +12 9d6 energy + stunned for 1 round
    or (ranged) touch +12 15d6 negative energy + 1d6+2 Con
    or (ranged) touch +12 undead flea in panic for 1d4 rounds
    or ranged touch +12/+12/+12 4d6 fire
    or ranged touch +12 32d6, Fort DC21 for 5d6 damage
    or touch +12 subject "dances" for 1d4+1 rounds, no save
    Last edited by HamsterOfTheGod; 2009-06-25 at 12:08 AM.
    Spoiler
    Show
    OotS Fan-fiction (An alternate OotS-verse starting after page 603. If you want to read it go here)

    bad Erf-poetry

    and other sillyness.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •