4e illusionist Drow

[SSGoW]

My firend wants some help with a wizard she is playing
level5 Drow illusionist
str10
con13
dex11
int16
wis13
cha16

she wants to know what feats would be best, however she already has Exspanded Spell Book

what about powers?

[NPCMook]

As most people will tell you Expanded Spellbook is a trap.

[SSGoW]

how? being able to choose from a larger list of powers each day is being trapped??

[erikun]

Only 16 INT, 16 CHA? I would've thought she'd take the INT/CHA bonus at level 4.

I don't have a copy of Arcane Power, but from what I recall, Illusion spells are the only ones who benefit from CHA - focus on those. Beyond that, there should be a "4e Wizard's Guide" on the D&D forums that highlight the best wizard powers. Scorching Burst/Thunderwave, Icy Terrain, Sleep, and Bigby's Ice Grasp are some good low-level spells from the PHB.

Here's a few links:
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1039126
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1186484

<Edit>
Expanded Spellbook is considered a "trap" by some because there generally isn't that many good choices each level. It will be very rare that you want to switch out powers, and the times that you do will usually be a permanent switch (because you didn't like the power you chose).

[Colmarr]

Expanded Spellbook is considered a "trap" by some because there generally isn't that many good choices each level. It will be very rare that you want to switch out powers, and the times that you do will usually be a permanent switch (because you didn't like the power you chose).

Agreed.

To put another spin on it, Expanded Spellbook is a "trap" because it's relatively rare that you'll know in advance what you'll be facing that day.

Contrast Expanded Spellbook with Tome of Readiness (which admittedly is not a feat) and you'll see how good Expanded Spellbook could have been.

Having said that, Expanded Spellbook will give your character added versatility in circumstances where you do know where you're going and who you'll be fighting.

The death chasms of Mor? Jump might be useful after all.

Fighting fire archons and salamanders in their volcano lair? Maybe Fireball isn't the best bet.

[Kurald Galain]

how? being able to choose from a larger list of powers each day is being trapped??

(1) because you have no way of knowing in advance what situation you will be in, so you're not so much "choosing" from a larger list of powers, but guessing from it,
(2) because powers that are only useful in a specific situation are very, very rare in 4E, and
(3) because on many levels there simply aren't three good powers (for a particular build) to choose from.

It's not worth the feat. Take enlarge spell instead, it's much better. Or improved initiative, arcane familiar, leather armor prof, jack of all trades, racial feats, enlarge spell, dual implement, there are so many good choices that you'll run out of feat space long before you should consider expanded spellbook.

[Kurald Galain]

The death chasms of Mor? Jump might be useful after all.

Exp Spellbook doesn't give you more utility spells. However, this gives you an incentive to carry around a Mnemonic Staff (which, like tome mastery, is much better than E.S.)

Fighting fire archons and salamanders in their volcano lair? Maybe Fireball isn't the best bet.

Fireball isn't a good bet anyway, it's a pretty bad spell. Regardless, if every single monster the DM is going to throw at you during the day is fire resistant, the DM is being a jerk. But even if he is, several feats and items allow you to pierce elemental resistance easily.

Anyway, this is where a second spell comes in handy, but not the third: if you are ever in a situation where neither your primary nor your secondary spell for some level are useful, you've done something seriously wrong with your power selection.

[LiteYear]

As a Wizard, you already get the choice of two powers already (and as said above, you'll probably choose one and very rarely switch it out without wanting it to be permanent). Increasing the options from two to three with Expanded Spellbook will make virtually no difference.

[DSCrankshaw]

Agreed.

To put another spin on it, Expanded Spellbook is a "trap" because it's relatively rare that you'll know in advance what you'll be facing that day.

Contrast Expanded Spellbook with Tome of Readiness (which admittedly is not a feat) and you'll see how good Expanded Spellbook could have been.

Having said that, Expanded Spellbook will give your character added versatility in circumstances where you do know where you're going and who you'll be fighting.

The death chasms of Mor? Jump might be useful after all.

Fighting fire archons and salamanders in their volcano lair? Maybe Fireball isn't the best bet.

You could have the Invoker in your party use his Hand of Fate for the day to tell you which would be the best spell to pick. We might as well make some use of those divination spells, and the Invoker gets one free Hand of Fate per day... that's probably one of the better uses.

Personally, I'd pick Implement Expertise for this character. The attack bonus is a bit on the low side, so it'd be a good idea to buff that.

[Colmarr]

Exp Spellbook doesn't give you more utility spells.

It doesn't? I thought it worked for Utilities and Dailies...

Regardless, if every single monster the DM is going to throw at you during the day is fire resistant, the DM is being a jerk.

He is? How is stocking a volcano with fire resistant creatures (or a glacier with cold resistant, or a fen with poison resistant etc) being a jerk?

It's common sense and adds verisimilitude. I simply don't see the problem with it.

Notice that I didn't say "every single creature". That was your extrapolation. I agree that there should be some variance among creatures.

However, as someone who has just gone through three encounters with Duergar in Thunderspire Labyrinth, I can vouch that being stuck with fire or poison damage would suck.

But even if he is, several feats and items allow you to pierce elemental resistance easily.

So you're answer is don't take feat A because it won't alway apply. Take feat B instead (notwithstanding that it won't always apply).

Anyway, this is where a second spell comes in handy, but not the third: if you are ever in a situation where neither your primary nor your secondary spell for some level are useful, you've done something seriously wrong with your power selection.

Now THIS might be the best argument against Expanded Spellbook. The third spell of a given level is generally worth considerably less than the second if you have to choose between them.

[Kurald Galain]

Notice that I didn't say "every single creature". That was your extrapolation. I agree that there should be some variance among creatures.

That's good; that way you get to use your fire spell(s) on the creatures that aren't fire resistant, problem solved.

However, as someone who has just gone through three encounters with Duergar in Thunderspire Labyrinth, I can vouch that being stuck with fire or poison damage would suck.

Yes. However, if all or even most of your spells are of one and the same element (regardless of what your class is) you're really doing something wrong in character building.

So you're answer is don't take feat A because it won't alway apply. Take feat B instead (notwithstanding that it won't always apply).

Who needs a feat when you've got Gloves of Piercing? Cheap item, problem solved again. Staff of Acid&Flame. Slightly less cheap item, but again problem solved.

Point still stands that if you really want a wizard that relies (almost) exclusively on fire magic, then the "pierce fire resistance" feat is going to be much more useful than Exp Sp. And if your spell choice is versatile to begin with (which is really a better idea) then you don't need either feat.

[NPCMook]

You could have the Invoker in your party use his Hand of Fate for the day to tell you which would be the best spell to pick. We might as well make some use of those divination spells, and the Invoker gets one free Hand of Fate per day... that's probably one of the better uses.

Personally, I'd pick Implement Expertise for this character. The attack bonus is a bit on the low side, so it'd be a good idea to buff that.

That's not how Hand of Fate works!

[Decoy Lockbox]

Yes. However, if all or even most of your spells are of one and the same element (regardless of what your class is) you're really doing something wrong in character building.


Who needs a feat when you've got Gloves of Piercing? Cheap item, problem solved again. Staff of Acid&Flame. Slightly less cheap item, but again problem solved.

When I first got my 4e PHB, as soon as I saw the Gloves of piercing, I immediately though "yeah, everybody is going to have these after a certain point"

I think the energy resist problem is more troubling for sorcs and warlocks though. I mean, from my experience wizards shouldn't care all that much about the damage they deal, because they don't deal much anyway. The push effect on Thunderwave is the important thing, not the 1d6+int damage it deals, after all. Hell, this is why enlarge spell is such an amazing feat -- blast 4 thunderwave for 1d6+int-2 is a hell of a lot better than blast 3 for 1d6+int

[DSCrankshaw]

That's not how Hand of Fate works!

Sure it is. To quote: "When you perform the ritual, ask up to three questions about possible courses of action. A translucent blue hand appears and indicates with a gesture what the most rewarding course of action is."

The rest of the desciption has a a lot of suggestions and examples, but the core of it is the same. If you were to ask: "What spell should I prepare for my first level daily?", then the hand should point to the spell that would be the most rewarding. Ultimately, it depends on the DM to determine what the hand indicates, based on what he knows about the encounters you're most likely to face that day, but there's no reason it shouldn't work. If he knows that you'll be fighting monsters with a vulnerability to ice, then he should have the hand point to the ice spells.

[NPCMook]

Actually, the hand can only see an hour into the future so its not the best course of action, also good luck convincing the Invoker that using his one free cast of Hand of Fate so you can pick your daily spells it worth his time. Because if you aren't facing enemies within the next hour you just wasted the Invokers free cast

[DSCrankshaw]

Actually, the hand can only see an hour into the future so its not the best course of action, also good luck convincing the Invoker that using his one free cast of Hand of Fate so you can pick your daily spells it worth his time. Because if you aren't facing enemies within the next hour you just wasted the Invokers free cast

Admittedly, I forgot about the one hour time limit.

Still, even with 4e, many adventuring days don't last more than an hour, especially for dungeon crawls. I haven't had any success getting the group I DM to press on further than that. If the hand can't be used, though, I'm not sure it's a waste--according to the description, if the hand can't make a prediction, no components are expended. I can't guarantee that that means that the Invoker gets by without spending the free casting--that's up to the DM--but it's suggestive.

[Kurald Galain]

I think the energy resist problem is more troubling for sorcs and warlocks though. I mean, from my experience wizards shouldn't care all that much about the damage they deal, because they don't deal much anyway.

That is correct. They are, however, very good at dazing, slowing and immobilizing everybody :)

Still, even with 4e, many adventuring days don't last more than an hour,

Hm, wasn't the design intent for 4E to prevent that habit?

[cupkeyk]

why drow?

A gnome has access to gnome phantasmist which nets you feat +1 bonus with illusion spells per tier that stacks with implement mastery's untyped bonus.

I recommend pumping your primary stats too. 18 int and 16 cha gnome? there is a illusion spell at each level that can benefit from this. AB is everything in 4e.

Also notice that the very powerful Illusory wall does not have the implement keyword. That means if you want your allies dancing around your opponents, gnome phantasmist compensates the loss from both implement expertise and your implement's enhancement bonus.

[Kurald Galain]

I recommend pumping your primary stats too.

Absolutely. Never use less than an 18 in your primary, and having a 19 or 20 doesn't hurt either.

Also notice that the very powerful Illusory wall does not have the implement keyword.

Actually, that was a typo that has been errata'ed.

[Gralamin]

Admittedly, I forgot about the one hour time limit.

Still, even with 4e, many adventuring days don't last more than an hour, especially for dungeon crawls.

That is correct. They are, however, very good at dazing, slowing and immobilizing everybody :)


Hm, wasn't the design intent for 4E to prevent that habit?

Do note, that by RAW, There must be at least a 12 hour period between expanded rests. So if your adventuring only an hour, you've got plenty of time to waste.

This is also the same limit keeping Magister from Breaking the game with rituals at level 30 (Without it, you could take a standard action (and 3600 gp) for an extended rest whenever you wanted).

Trick Details:

Spoiler

Show

Magister from AP 148
The Fantastic Recuperation Ritual from EPG 117.
After an Extended Rest, daily abilities, such as the Magister's "Magic's Master" ability recharge.
Repeat as long as you have the component cost.

[DSCrankshaw]

In a dungeon crawl, you can easily have 4-6 encounters in an hour. The design intent of 4e was to prevent the 1-2 encounter day. However, there is still a practical limit to the number of encounters a group can handle before they run out of resources (dailies, healing surges). 4-6 encounters seems about average, from what I've seen and heard. That's about the time the defender runs out of healing surges, after spending 1-3 per encounter, and everyone else is out of dailies by that point. Perhaps the new Artificer, with his ability to move around healing surges, will change that, but that seems to be the state of things right now.

The 12 hour limit does make it hard to rest without clearing out an area or something, and I've enforced it, but it didn't change the mind of the party when they were low on resources and wanted to rest. I'd have let them take it if they could have found a safe place to do so, rather than in hearing distance of a large group of goblins.

[Asbestos]

The death chasms of Mor? Jump might be useful after all.

Man, Jump is just straight up a useful spell.