D&D 3.5 I Want a Rogue that can DANCE

[NekoJoker]

Hey there guys, been a while since I last posted. I got a new build question for you, hope you guys can enlight me.
I'm planning on a new build for a friend's campaign. and i want to play a Rogue. In my mind I see her as a Dancer so I started researching for builds and prestige classes and ended up going for a Rogue/Scout build with Swift Ambusher. About Prestige Classes I was thinking of Cloaked Dancer, Dervish and a one level dip on Shadowdancer for Hide in PLain sight. I'm looking for a way to make this build reasonable since it is quite feat intensive (on the dervish side)
She'll be a mobility fighter that will rely on surprise and flanking tactics to bring the baddies down, focusing on SA and Skirmish damage to do the job. Hopefuly, with Two Weapon Fighting if i can fit it somewhere...

Here are the Specifics:
System: D&D 3.5

Starting level 3

Character:
Race: Whisper gnome or Human... I haven't decided yet

Sex: Female

Party Role: Skill monkey/trapfinder/attention grabber/second "face". Any of these roles are Ok for her, but the concept is still a little vague in my head. Ideas on this will be appreciated as well.

Starting Stats: 18-16-15-14-12-11

Campaign:
Anticipated ending: Most likely it wil reach 20th level or so.


Available Books: All the "Complete Whatever" series, all core, and a few setting specifics, namely: Dungeonscape, Cityscape, Sandstorm and Stormwrak, I think i also have Frostburn somewhere as well...
Now, here is something important NO TOME OF BATTLE, neither my DM nor me want to even look at that book, yeah, I know it's awesome, but we want to stay away from it.
Races of the Wild/Stone/Wild/Dragon are open as well.

House rules: We are allowed 2 Traits and 1 flaw at character creation.

Magic: Standar magic, most likely going to low or non existing, since the DM is not very fond of spellcasters. but will certainly allow Magic items like the ones in the MIC; he loves those.

Party Members: as far as things go, 1 Half-Elf Knight/Paladin. 1 Human Duskblade. 1 Elf Wizard.

Theme: appearently the Campaign will feature quite a few demons and Constructs, so ideas on dealing with things that are immune to crits and Presicion damage would be awesome.

I can't think of anything else right now.

I hope thats enough info if more notes are needed, please let me know i want to know as much as possible about how to build a stylish rogue.
Thx in advanced. NekoJoker

[Duke of URL]

If you want to take all of those prestige classes, you're going to want to PrC out early, so I don't know how much benefit you would get from Swift Ambusher. I'm not familiar with Cloaked Dancer, but neither Dervish nor Shadowdancer can be entered earlier than 8th if you're sticking with pure Rogue or Scout, and possibly later if you're multiclassing them inefficiently (from a BAB standpoint).

Being feats are a problem, and you want to be skillmonkey, I'd suggest the Human over Whisper Gnome.

Human
STR 13, DEX 18, CON 12, INT 14, WIS 11, CHA 16

Scout or Rogue levels will give you 11 skill points per level. Plenty for a skillmonkey, except for cross-class issues. If you can't get Able Learner added as a possible feat, you're going to be burning up skill points on cross-class purchases, even though they'll be in-class maximums.

Assuming you can get Able Learner as a feat, I'd start Rogue 1 / Scout 4 / Rogue +2 / Derish 2 / Shadowdancer 1 / Dervish +8

1) Rogue 1 Feats: Dodge (1), Able Learner (human), Two-Weapon Fighting (flaw)
2) Scout 1
3) Scout 2 Feat: Mobility (3)
4) Scout 3
5) Scout 4 Feat: Combat Expertise (scout 4)
6) Rogue 2 Feat: Weapon Focus
7) Rogue 3
8) Dervish 1
9) Dervish 2 Feat: Combat Reflexes
10) Shadowdancer 1
11) Dervish 3 Feat: Spring Attack (dervish 3)
12) Derivsh 4 Feat: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
etc.

[HP McLuvin]

Just a thought, and I don't know whether your DM would even allow it, but have you looked at the Battle Dancer base class, found in the Dragon Compendium?

[Keld Denar]

Now, here is something important NO TOME OF BATTLE, neither my DM nor me want to even look at that book, yeah, I know it's awesome, but we want to stay away from it.

This is sad...

My recommendation? Bard20. No seriously. Bard20. Optimize your Inspire Courage, swap it for Dragonfire Inspiration (Dragon Magic), take ranks in Perform: Dance, take Rapid Shot and the TWF tree, and throw daggers while you dance. Race should probably be Strongheart Halfling, or a Glimmerskin Strongheart Halfling if you want Dragonfire Inspiration.

Throw 5-6 daggers a round with +6d6 fire damage or so on each is freakin awesome.

On top of that, you have your minor Bardic spellcasting and performances which is just icing on the very tasty tasty cake.

[Stormageddon]

take a 2 level dip of fighter to help get into the PrCs.

[Duke of URL]

take a 2 level dip of fighter to help get into the PrCs.

Yeah, there's that option too. I was trying to do as much as I can within the Scout/Rogue request.

As for ToB, a 1-level dip in Swordsage would be really nice, to get Shadow Blade for DEX to damage. You do probably need the Fighter dip for the extra feats.

[Signmaker]

Dragonfire Inspiration (Dragon Magic)

Isn't there a pretty convoluted ritual you can go through (5000 gp) to change your draconic heritage? Thus allowing you with, say battle dragon, to turn your inspiration to sonic?

[Curmudgeon]

You can buy Mobility as an armor enhancement (Magic Item Compendium, page 13) and save one feat required for Shadowdancer. Arms and Equipment Guide has rules on adding such enhancements to Bracers of Armor if you won't be wearing regular armor.

Definitely take the Quick trait for superior mobility (the real quality, not the lame feat/armor enhancement).

[Worira]

It's a pity ToB isn't allowed, since it's fairly important to the BEST BUILD EVER.

[Gaiyamato]

This is sad...

My recommendation? Bard20. No seriously. Bard20. Optimize your Inspire Courage, swap it for Dragonfire Inspiration (Dragon Magic), take ranks in Perform: Dance, take Rapid Shot and the TWF tree, and throw daggers while you dance. Race should probably be Strongheart Halfling, or a Glimmerskin Strongheart Halfling if you want Dragonfire Inspiration.

Throw 5-6 daggers a round with +6d6 fire damage or so on each is freakin awesome.

On top of that, you have your minor Bardic spellcasting and performances which is just icing on the very tasty tasty cake.

Yes bard kicks ass for this.

I would actually look at a Bard with a couple of scout levels dip.
There are some awesome battle dance moves that require bardic music.

The level 2 fighter dip is also a good idea.
Though a level two Psichic Warrior dip might be cooler for this build.

[Gaiyamato]

Ok, fiddled with about 30 different builds before I came up with this one.
Still not happy. lol.

The problem is the dervish prestige class.
It's feat requirement, particularly weapon focus is a right pain in the ass.
Also when flipping between classes that do not have full bab progression you wind up delaying the entry into dervish by far to long.

Anyway, I went for a charisma based fighting focusing on snowflake wardance (adds CHA bonus to attack rolls and stacks with your STR bonus) and anything battle dance themed...
I found that scout, while being awesome, winds up being more than sub-optimal for getting into dervish and keeping to the theme. :P

I also had an idea to be Killorean to get free bonuses with smiting or being stealthy. But in the end I just needed that Human bonus feat to help get more of the cool feats. :P

Human

STR: 16
DEX: 15
CON: 11
INT: 14
WIS: 12
CHA: 18

Level 4: +1 DEX
Level 8: +1 WIS
+ CHA all other levels.

Traits:
Quick
Passionate

Flaws:
Shaky

Level 1: Rogue 1 (UA simple variant)
         Level 1: Force of Personality
         Human: Guerilla Scout
         Fighter Feat: Dodge
         Flaw: Weapon Focus (Scimitar)
Level 2: Bard 1 - Bardic Knack
Level 3: Bard 2
         Level 3: Snowflake Wardance

Future progression:
Level 4: Rogue 2
         Fighter Feat: Battle Dancer
Level 5: Fighter 1
         Fighter Feat: Mobility
Level 6: Fighter 2
         Level 6: Elusive Dance
         Fighter Feat: Combat Expertise
Level 7: Dervish 1
Level 8: Dervish 2
Level 9: Dervish 3
         Level 9: Ironskin chant
         Dervish: Spring Attack
Level 10:Dread Commando 1



Other Possible Feats:
Dash
Eyes in the back of your head
Sand Dancer
Sand Spinner
Bounding Assault
Rapid Blitz
Improved Trip
Improved Initiative

I added a list of other feats that build (as it is) could make use of and keep to the theme at the end.

You could also delay Dervish by one level and take a level of psychic warrior and get the Up the Walls feat, which would be handy dandy.

I also tried a Scout/Ranger/Rogue build with Swift Hunter and Swift Ambusher. Works quite well. :) But delays entry into dervish by a looong time and moves away from the dance theme a lot.

Really at least one level of bard is required for this theme to work. Snowflake Battle Dance is just so cool! lol.
Unless anyone can find a way to get access to bardic music, or somethign that counts as bardic music for feats.
Then that might be better as some of the bard features are wasted in this build.

[woodenbandman]

Everyone seems to forget about Wolf Pack Tactics:

With every successful attack that you make in a turn, you may make a 5 foot step.

It is a high level stance, so you may be better with dervish if you can enter it early, but I'm just suggesting it so you'll consider it.

[Gaiyamato]

Everyone seems to forget about Wolf Pack Tactics:

With every successful attack that you make in a turn, you may make a 5 foot step.

It is a high level stance, so you may be better with dervish if you can enter it early, but I'm just suggesting it so you'll consider it.

No ToB allowed. :P

[grummul]

You could do this : Perform Dance (take ranks)

Then you have a dancer...then make this concept that I created (using 4 books on your list)

Halfling Rogue 10 / Swashbuckler 3 / Master thrower 1 / Whisper Knife 1 / Invis Blade 5

1 Rogue (Imp Init)
2 Rogue
3 Swashbuckler (Two Weapon Fighting , Weapon Finesse from Swash)
4 Swashbuckler (Grace)
5 Swashbuckler (Insightful Strike Add Int to damage)
6 Rogue (Halfling Substitution Level, gives Thief's luck and +2d6 augment to ranged sneak attacks and -1d6 to your melee. Take Weapon Focus Daggers)
7 Rogue
8 Rogue
9 Rogue (Take point blank shot)
10 Rogue
11 Rogue
12 Rogue (Take Precise shot)
13 Rogue (Special Ability - Crippling Strike)
14 Master Thrower (Take Palm Throw for trick, Get Quick Draw from class)
15 Whisper Knife (Get Rapid Shot from Class, Take Far Shot)
16 Invis Blade
17 Invis Blade
18 Invis Blade (Take Savy Rogue or Daring Outlaw)
19 Invis Blade
20 Invis Blade

Let me tell you why I created this building. You end with a BaB of 17/12/7/2. You will notice that the majority of your levels will come from rogue however you will end up with more than 3 attacks at 20. All of these classes fit together to provide you with the prereqs for the others meshing seemlessly into one class. With rapid shot you would be looking at 15/15/10/5/0. When you incorporate your palm throw trick, that means 2 daggers (with separately resolved damage rolls this is important) for every attack or 10 daggers. Now the most important part is each damage roll is resolved separately which means sneak attack damage applies to ALL 10 daggers. The palm trick takes away any of your str bonus however with the Insightful strike from Swash that great int score you have is added.

With the Halfling sub levels your sneak attack at 20 will either be 11d6 if you took Savoy Rogue or 12d6 if you took daring outlaw. If you strike with all attacks you will be doing 10d3 + 120d6 + 10 x Int Bonus + Enchantments.... to add insult to injury as Crippling strike was your level 10 rogue ability even if you don't destroy your target....you just did 20 STR damage to them as well....

This is Kel Luckstriker, Rogue Extraordinaire signing off! I hope you enjoy my build

[Foryn Gilnith]

If you still want a rogue, Penetrating Strike from Dungeonscape is easily the simplest and best option for harming constructs and their kin.