The perfect assassin

[Fortinbras]

I'm trying to build a perfect assassin for a 3.5 game. He should specialize in stealth (of course) and I like the idea of kukris for weapons. He needs to be able to nock out spellcasters. TOB is being used. Other than than I'm open to suggestions.

[Keld Denar]

Wizard20

Or...maybe...Abjurer3/MasterSpecialist10/Iot7V7.

Yea...that'll be nice...

[Sstoopidtallkid]

I'm trying to build a perfect assassin for a 3.5 game. He should specialize in stealth (of course) and I like the idea of kukris for weapons. He needs to be able to nock out spellcasters. TOB is being used. Other than than I'm open to suggestions.

Wizard/Incantrix. Cast Invisibility(or similar), Silence, drop a couple Images to draw off guards, walk in, drop a metamagic'd Orb of Fire(Cold), walk out.

Note, any stages involving Walking can be replaced with appropriate Teleportation spells.

[ErrantX]

I'm trying to build a perfect assassin for a 3.5 game. He should specialize in stealth (of course) and I like the idea of kukris for weapons. He needs to be able to nock out spellcasters. TOB is being used. Other than than I'm open to suggestions.

How nice that people ignore what you're asking for an immediately and always suggest wizard.

On that note, if you're TOB allowed, I'd suggest a swordsage focused on Shadow Hand and Tiger Claw. You'll have more than enough maneuvers to make that happen. You'll be fairly Dex and Wisdom based at that point, so I'd recomend the Shadow Blade feat to increase melee damage. Tiger Claw is especially helpful if you plan on two-weapon fighting with kukris, but I think you'd be better served with shortswords or regular daggers to use Shadow Blade. Tiger Claw will work either way, Shadow Blade is more particular.

As far as being to knock out spellcasters, there is always the Suel Arcanamach, another solid class. Unfortunately, the best anti-spellcaster generally is another spellcaster, but if you want to do it from the better-skilled-than-spelled type, I'd use Swordsage and consider multiclassing into Suel Arcanamach, but remember that it doesn't get maneuvers, and that can hurt you. Straight swordsage never hurt anyone (except the NPCs).

-X

[Sstoopidtallkid]

How nice that people ignore what you're asking for an immediately and always suggest wizard.

If you have a better way of getting through defenses than Invisibility and Teleport, or a better way of dealing damage in a surprise round than Orbs, please, tell us.

[Spiryt]

If you have a better way of getting through defenses than Invisibility and Teleport, or a better way of dealing damage in a surprise round than Orbs, please, tell us.

It is not supposed to contest of optimisation. He wants a guy that kills his enemies with stealth&steel

He should specialize in stealth (of course) and I like the idea of kukris for weapons

So with a bit of decency, you could at least propose wizard build with some serious melee damage abuse

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I'm trying to build a perfect assassin for a 3.5 game. He should specialize in stealth (of course) and I like the idea of kukris for weapons. He needs to be able to nock out spellcasters. TOB is being used. Other than than I'm open to suggestions.

Here's a build I made which was pretty handy for the job:
Rogue xx/Swordsage2 (split up)/Nightsong Enforcer1/Bloodclaw Master 2

In effect: TWF precision-based damage dealer. Deals hundreds of damage per round. Has wands of Gravebane and Golembane in Wand Sheaths in his paired Kukri (which are both Tiger Claw and Shadow Hand weapons), which have the Collision enhancement on them (flat +5 to damage), and Craven to further increase sneak attack damage.

Looses no sneak attack dice from multiclassing due to Assassin's Stance, although he also has Island of Blades to make flanking easier.

[Keld Denar]

If you have a better way of getting through defenses than Invisibility and Teleport, or a better way of dealing damage in a surprise round than Orbs, please, tell us.

+1

The best caster killer is another caster.

I'd also like to posit a MoMF build as an assassin. WS Ranger5/MoMF2/Warshaper4/NaturesWarrior1/MoMF+7...or something like that. Scout as a bird, get in as a squirell, kill em as a RAMPAGING GIANT!, and then get out. Also, spread rumers about angry teleporting giants and noone will ever have reasons to suspect you. Ever.

Regardless, if you want to build an assassin, I highly suggest you stay just about as far from the actual Assassin PrC as possible. Its bad. Really bad.

Oh, I just remembered another good Assassin build. Rogue or Spelltheif1/Wizard4/UnseenSeer10/ArcaneTrickster5. Swap out a couple levels of AT for Archmage if desired. Nearly full wizard casting, ok sneak attacks, more sneak attack damage summonable at will via Hunter's Eye, lots of spells for sneakin, mobility, assassinatin, and all that jazz. Able Learner feat (Races of Destiny) and a high Int keeps your vital skills up to augement your castable sneakiness (you can be invisible AND hiding since See Invisible and True Seeing can't pierce mundane hiding). Throw in a bit of Darkstalker from Lords of Madness and you'll be virtually undetectable, especially late in life when you get Superior Invisibility and Mind Blank.

[mostlyharmful]

Try to get hold of power attack, leap attack and frenzied beserker. Then get a ring of Invis and a custom item of silence. Then go do the sneaky thing followed by a Coup de over nine thousand! Much higher save than a death attack from the assassin class and a damn funny image to think of a guy that sneaks all the way into his targets bedroom and then leaps across the room screaming and smacks them with a greataxe.

[herrhauptmann]

Feats: Blindfight, Magekiller, Pierce Magical Protection, Pierce Magical Concealment.
Craven +1 to damage on a sneak attack per Character level. This multiplies on a crit,
Dragonfire strike (convert SA into elemental damage, with right feats it becomes able to SA undead)
PrC:
Occult slayer: Permanent nondetection, bonus to saves vs spells, bonus damage and attack vs casters. At will detect magic (auras only)
Witchslayer: Find possessed beings, smite possessed beings, Momentary Disjunction

Items:
-Mageslayer weapon, extra +2 enhancement, and +2d6 damage vs casters/invocation users
-Starmetal weapon, like adamant, but +1d6 vs outsiders on the prime
-Bracers of Murder: higher death attack DC, +d6's on your SA.
-Generally avoid things like flaming or frost on your weapons. You need extra +1's to hit, not extra d6's of random energy types.
-A +3 weapon (at least one) with a greater truedeath crystal. Now you can crit and SA undead. Or demolition crystal (vs constructs)
Revelation crystals, allows your party to find the invisible wizard if you hit him. You can find his square with a good listen check, and pierce magical concealment ignores the misschance of him being invisible. (But if he's invisible in a smoky room, you still get a misschance due to the smoke. But blindfight helps you there)



Seriously Keld, Tallkid. He's asking for an assassin. So give him things for an assassin. Why not just say "Druid 20, wildshape+natural spell, grapple wizards FTW!"

[Keld Denar]

Seriously Keld, Tallkid. He's asking for an assassin. So give him things for an assassin. Why not just say "Druid 20, wildshape+natural spell, grapple wizards FTW!"

If the Red Wizards of Thay sent an assassin after you, do you think he would actually bother stabbing you with a knife? Probably not. He would probably sear the flesh from your body. Or Polymorph you into a mouse and feed you to his familar. Or drop a flaming mountain on your head. Or something.

Assassin is a PrC, and a bad one at that. Its also a concept, and in a fantasy world, that concept need not be limited to invoking a stabbity death upon your enemies. Dead is dead, and the contract if fulfilled.

EDIT:
And the OP wanted a "perfect" assassin. A character with actual levels in Assassin is hardly "perfect"

[lsfreak]

Herrhauptmann, your build still does nothing to locate or get close to the wizard, just keeps you alive long enough to flail about helplessly for a few rounds. As is often pointed out, the three parts of killing a wizard are finding the wizard, surviving the wizard's attacks, and killing the wizard. A melee build is ONLY really capable of the middle, and by far the easiest, one; it still can't find them nor can it kill them.

[ErrantX]

That's why I recommended Suel Arcanamach, it has a good mix of spells to be able to get in and kill a wizard. That's what they're designed to do. Mix that up with some swordsage and enjoy.

-X

[HamHam]

Whisper Gnome with Silencing Strike. Casting Silence on people when you hit them with no save is not only good for keeping the guard quiet while you finish murdering him, but also messing with most casters.

[herrhauptmann]

If the Red Wizards of Thay sent an assassin after you, do you think he would actually bother stabbing you with a knife? Probably not. He would probably sear the flesh from your body. Or Polymorph you into a mouse and feed you to his familar. Or drop a flaming mountain on your head. Or something.
Assassin is a PrC, and a bad one at that. Its also a concept, and in a fantasy world, that concept need not be limited to invoking a stabbity death upon your enemies. Dead is dead, and the contract if fulfilled.
EDIT:
And the OP wanted a "perfect" assassin. A character with actual levels in Assassin is hardly "perfect"

At what point did I actually recommend he take Assassin, Avenger, BlackFlameZealot, or a half dozen other death attack PrC's?
And yes, I would actually expect Thay to send a melee assassin against me, because it's a freakin assassin, whether it's got levels in the PrC or not! Because that's how the adventures are written.
Finally, he hasn't specified what world this is in. Or any houserules. It could easily be Ravenloft or Eberron, neither of which as a Red Wizard of Thay.

He asked for stuff for an assassin character, and I gave him something for it. I'd have recommended stuff for ToB, but I haven't played a ToB character, so I left that alone.

three parts of killing a wizard are finding the wizard, surviving the wizard's attacks, and killing the wizard.

Remember, he's likely to be in a party. So why don't you give him the advice everyone's given me before? "Have the party wizard cast a spell on you for it" By the time you guys are done with the melee and rogue builds, they've either become casters, or are forcing the party caster to spend half his daily spells in buffing everyone else at the start of combat.


Again, he's asked for things for an assassin class, so I've suggested it, if I had a link to the rogue handbooks I'd post those too.
If he asks for a meatshield, or an archer, I'll post what I've got on that. If he asks for a monk, I'll write something about a monk, other than just "monks suck, play wizard," same thing if he asks for a blaster sorcerer.

[Fortinbras]

Actually this guy is supposed to work alone. Some spellcasting is fine but I also want use of stealth skills and kukris.

[Keld Denar]

Probably best would be something like this:

Spellthief1/Wizard4/UnseenSeer10/ArcaneTrickster5
1 Two Weapon Fighting
H Able Learner
2 Improved Init (swap from Scribe Scroll with Martial Wizard ACF)
3 Extend Spell
6 Master Spellthief
9 Greater TWF
12 Persist Spell
15 Improved TWF
18 Arcane Strike

You'll have spells as a 19th level wizard, with a CL of 20 for non-Divinations, and 23 for Divinations. Then, you Persist Hunter's Eye (Ranger2 leared from Unseen Seer) and attack from Improved or Superior Invisibility for lots of Sneak Attack damage, including stealing spells which you can use to power your own arcane spells. You also pick up Divine Insight (Clr2) from Unseen Seer, allowing you to really nail that one skill check you need to bluff your way into the Kings bedroom or whatnot.

Get a pair of +1 Keen Spellstoring Bloodstone Kukiri's and load them up with a pair of Vampiric Touches each. Your initial strike will do like, 90d6 damage between your 5ish attacks and your 4ish spells that are all being discharged.

[Fortinbras]

That's what I'm talking about. What book is unseen seer in?

[Keld Denar]

Complete Mage

[Fortinbras]

Is there any way to work a similar build using something else then?

[Night Monkey]

Ghost template?

[ErrantX]

Either more Arcane Trickster and/or some Daggerspell Mage, but that restricts your alignment some. Without Complete Mage this is a little harder. Spellwarp Sniper from Complete Scoundrel... That's what I've got off the top of my head without Unseen Seer. Good build, Keld.

-X

[Fortinbras]

what about ghostfaced killer?

[Curmudgeon]

I dislike the Wizard vs. Wizard approach. For instance, See Invisibility is just too common, so attacking while invisible isn't reliable. Conversely, mundane stealth can only be countered by high Spot scores, which a Wizard is unlikely to have. So one of the good Hide in Plain Sight versions is ideal. Assassin and Shadowdancer get the good Supernatural HiPS. But by far the best HiPS is that of the Eye of Lolth (Drow of the Underdark), because it functions identially to the Supernatural one but is Extraordinary. Add Antimagic Field and partay!

[Keld Denar]

I dislike the Wizard vs. Wizard approach. For instance, See Invisibility is just too common, so attacking while invisible isn't reliable. Conversely, mundane stealth can only be countered by high Spot scores, which a Wizard is unlikely to have.

My suggestion was to do both. That way, you can get around the Druids with the massive Spot checks, and the wizards with the constant Divination. Too bad with the Unseen Seer though. That class is really really really awesomely good.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Rogue/Wizard/Daggerspell Mage
Spells: Daggerspell Stance, Cloud of Knives, Whirling Blade.

[Maerok]

How nice that people ignore what you're asking for an immediately and always suggest wizard.

On that note, if you're TOB allowed, I'd suggest a swordsage focused on Shadow Hand and Tiger Claw. You'll have more than enough maneuvers to make that happen. You'll be fairly Dex and Wisdom based at that point, so I'd recomend the Shadow Blade feat to increase melee damage. Tiger Claw is especially helpful if you plan on two-weapon fighting with kukris, but I think you'd be better served with shortswords or regular daggers to use Shadow Blade. Tiger Claw will work either way, Shadow Blade is more particular.

Wizards = Cheese.

ToB = Butter, because everyone wants to spread it on everything.

---

Is Black Flame Zealot any good as an assassin? It'll help keep dead people dead with the capstone ability.

[Melamoto]

There are plenty of builds for assassinating people, yet surprisingly few melee ones.
Even if it's not optimal, the Black Flame Zealot is the only class which can truly "Assassinate" well, due to it's capstone ability. Not much point in killing someone if they're just going to be brought back to life faster than you can say "reduced impact of NPC mortality". It's also probably not too hard to build up Death Attack to a DC that your opponent will not pass.
If you're not going for any targets that would be resurrected, try being a poison using class with sneak attack. Use Disembowling Strike and high Con damage poisons with high saves, use the 2 poison feats from Complete Scoundrel as well. You could also go for a dip in Suel Arcanamach for effectiveness against casters and the ability to dispel defensive buffs. Either that or just go for an activated Antimagic Field item just before you attack, so ALL of their magical defences are null and void. While you? You still have your massive Con damage.
(For some numeric values; giving up a 4d6 sneak attack and using Black Lotus extract that you made, that means 3d6+1d4+3 Con damage for an average of 16)

[Kaiyanwang]

I'd second the suggestions about some gish rougueish-mageish*.

Mostly for what Curmdgeon said. I wonder if is possible a wisper gnome, as said above, I like the idea of silence. Remember the evergreen antimagic torc (acrivate it only when you are sure, or it means being "orbed" by the wizard).

Maybe, a combination of anti-casting ambush feats or stuns, and some utility spell added to high climb, move silently, hide..

Can be useful the Garrote from song and silence (as well dragon compenidium)? You can strangulate enemies whit it, maybe after you activated the torc.

Just few ideas..

EDIT: if you like the poison ideas, there are 3 ambush feats in DotU and one in DM lowering the saves or raising the poison DC.

EDIT2: DMagaz, too, Lacerate, another ambush feat that disables enemies limb, Powerful, but a gish is unlikely to take it because is a lot fighter/rogue due his laundry list prereqs..


*I know, too many -ish.

[namo]

If you can use LA buyoff, Lords of Madness has the Shadow template (LA +2) which grants almost-permanent total concealment (Tome of Magic has the Dark template for LA +1, really good as well). I'd go with Changeling because it makes infiltrating places a lot easier. And Swordsage for the class - with a healthy dose of Shadow Hand maneuvers.