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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Race of Cat People -- Kuthan

    Here's a race that my bro and I cooked up over christmas, been fine-tuning the language and such since then. Feel free to drop comments on what you think, and particularly if you have a campaign in which you'd like to test the race (I'd love to take part in a PbP with this race).

    This post encompasses both the race itself (the Kuthan) as well as an appropriate animal companion for a Druid (since only the Cat could be a companion to a Kuthan, and it didn't seem quite right for a cat warrior race to be accompanied by a housecat).

    Cat Race (Kuthan)

    Humanoid
    +2 Dexterity, -4 Charisma
    Medium
    Base land speed 40 ft.
    Low-Light Vision
    Racial Weapon Proficiency (without armor): Scimitars, quarterstaves, wooden shields, dagger, claw (1d2), leap attack
    Leap Attack: Kuthan have the extraordinary ability to make a leap attack on a non-adjacent foe that is within 30 ft. This attack is a standard action, but using it ends the player's turn for that round. The player must make a Jump check of DC 15 to use this ability. If the Kuthan is wearing armor or bearing a Medium load or heavier, he cannot Leap Attack. This attack leaves the target flatfooted and does not grant an attack of opportunity to the target. The Kuthan must be able to see the target, and the leap attack action causes the Kuthan to make a single leap that puts him adjacent to the target. Any enemies the Kuthan jumps over may make an attack of opportunity on him, but any enemies he moves past wth the leap attack do not. After the leap attack, the Kuthan is flat-footed for the next round, even if he gets to act before he is attacked.
    Racial Bonus: +2 Listen, +6 Jump, +2 Climb, +2 Hide and +2 Move Silently without armor
    Racial Bonus: +4 Handle Animal and wild empathy with Cats or Cat-like animals (cats, cheetahs, lions, mountain lions, panthers, tigers, lynxes)
    +3 dodge bonus without armor (even when flat-footed) (does not stack with other Dodge bonuses)
    Reducing fall by 20ft without armor
    Animals: See side note
    Languages: Common and Sylvan. Bonus Languages: Elven, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Orc
    Favored Class: Ranger

    Side Note: Kuthan bard, wizards, and sorcerers are unusual but those Kuthan who have gone on the path of the arcane caster have been heralded as heroes. Paladins and fighters are almost unheard of among the Kuthan tribes, although some have been seen in urban areas. Most choose to be rangers or druids, due to their natural environment of the woodlands and the forest, although in an urban environment, some opt to being a rogue, and some others choose to be a rogue in the wilds as well. Any class that does not require restricting armor is a fine fit for the Kuthan, so monks and barbarians among Kuthan are not unheard of, just uncommon and usually the result of Kuthans in a human society. Traditional clerics are usually poor fits since the race loses most of its racial abilites while wearing armor, but Kuthan healers are known, if unusual. Kuthan are only truly comfortable around cats and cat-like animals, such as lions and leopards, and thus can only have those kinds of animals as animal companions or familiars. The possible animals are cats, cheetahs, leopards, lions, tigers, dire versions of any of those animals, and the new animal, which is a possible starting animal companion, lynx (also known as a bobcat):

    Small Animal
    Hit Dice: 1d8 (4hp)
    Initiative:
    Speed: 40ft
    Armor Class: 15 (+1 size, +3 dexterity, +1 natural)
    Base Attack/Grapple: 0/-5
    Attacks: Claw +3 melee (1d3 -1)
    Full Attack: 2 claws +3 melee (1d3-1) and bite -1 melee (1d4-1)
    Special Attacks:
    Special Qualities: Weapon Finesse
    Saves: Fort +3, Ref +5, Will +1
    Abilities: Str 8, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 5
    Skills: Climb +4 Hide +4 Jump +8 Move Silently +4
    CR: 1

    Lynxs can be Animal Companions to 1st level druids.

    Attacks (for NPCs):
    Most Kuthan attack by first using their leap attack, then letting the other members of their troop move in while the party is distracted, then swarming in from all sides on their prey.

    Let me know what you think. Thanks again

    -JM
    When in doubt, light something on fire.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Race of Cat People -- Kuthan

    Heh, I helped write most of that. The Lynx is still under construction, and help with this would be awesome. I would also like to contribute in playtesting with this race. I am interested in seeing how the Kuthans hold up in campains.

    I just realized how stupid the Kuthans are as rogues. Sneak Attack! Change the Leap Attack to only affect creatures that are prone to critical hits to be affected by that ability.

    You also forgot the feat Weapon Finesse on the Lynx.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Race of Cat People -- Kuthan

    You've given them lots of benefits, with few penalties. This race seems very powerful... :-/

    In the old Mystara setting for the boxed D&D sets, there was a race called Rakasta - they were tiger-like humanoids.
    http://www.enworld.org/cc/converted/...CreatureID=776

    In the Rakasta write-up, there a +3 level adjustment. I think you ought to consider that, as you've given this race lots cool of abilities....

    Otherwise, as a cat-lover - supercool! We need more moggy PC races.
    :D

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Race of Cat People -- Kuthan

    You seem to have forgotten to include the no-doubt substantial Level Adjustment for that race.

    And you also seem to have invented entirely new mechanics that contridict normal rules.

    Further, undoubtably the Dodge bonus is so that it can stack with further Dodge bonuses, yet you wish to avoid the Cons of Dodge bonuses while keeping the Pros.
    Jeff

  5. - Top - End - #5
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    Default Re: Race of Cat People -- Kuthan

    The thing about this race is that it cannot use any of it's cool abilities while using armor. I think we should change that to armor or a light load, as it makes sense to me.

    As for the Level Adjustment, what would we change about them to make them not worthy of a level adjustment? The reason the dodge bonus does this is otherwise the Leap Attack would be somewhat useless. Jump in...oh wait, now my AC is bloody horrible (remember, no armor).

    There is also a major difference between the Kuthans and the Rakasta: Racial Hit Dice. The Kuthans have no racial hit die, while the Rakasta have 2d8. Their racial skill bonuses are also much higher. If anything, they do not have a Racial Adjustment more than 1 in my opinion, and if you can find evidence to support anything more, then please do tell me why.
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  6. - Top - End - #6
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Race of Cat People -- Kuthan

    Sounds like yet another anthropomorphic race - this one designed specifically to be monks.

    Increased speed.
    Bonus Feat
    Many bonus skills
    Bonus AC

    I'd give it an LA: +3

  7. - Top - End - #7
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    Default Re: Race of Cat People -- Kuthan

    Excuse me, Bonus Feat? Which now?

    Actually, they were designed without monks in mind: actually to be rangers. We thought of monks and realized that they could be monks and decided that Monks among them were rare. Otherwise, not wearing armor would not really be a good thing most of the time.
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  8. - Top - End - #8
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    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Race of Cat People -- Kuthan

    re: tvga8889, yes I hadn't considered the whole sneak attack thing....perhaps a clause that disallows a Sneak Attack bonus on a Leap Attack?

    re: Jeff, I had actually intended, as tgva8889 indicated, the dodge as simply a way to make Leap Attack, how shall I say this, not suck. although, perhaps I underestimated its usefulness. Getting a free flat-footed attack in may indeed be balanced by allowing a free flat-footed attack on you in return.

    re: Democratus, They actually are not intended to be monks, since they are meant to use weapons, particularly the ones they are granted by their Racial Weapon Proficiency.

    re: all:

    Any ideas on how to fix them so they do not require a level adjustment? Personally, the more I think about it, the more I think they do not need the Racial Weapon Proficiencies.

    Also, I could adjust the dodge bonus so it does not stack with other dodges (yeah they are REALLY stupid-good rogues, hmm...)

    well as for the edits i've already decided on, i'll change leap attack to not stack with sneak attack, the natural weapon will be reduced to be on par with the Rakasta claw, and the dodge bonus will not stack.

    Edit: changed the dodge bonus, leap attack (no sneak attack), and claws, also added Weapon Finesse to the lynx.

    -JM
    When in doubt, light something on fire.

  9. - Top - End - #9
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Race of Cat People -- Kuthan

    The free feat would be the "Leap Attack" power. Although it is actually more powerful than the standard feat. It allows a roll-free jump of 30' combined with an immunity to AoO.

    Everythng in this race seems custom designed for playing a monk. All bonuses, save one, are in monk skills. And that skill (Handle Animal) is based off a stat with a -4 penalty. Most abilities encourage eschewing armor.

    The whole package just screams "ultimate cheese monk"! So it would be good to put a large ECL on the race.

  10. - Top - End - #10
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    Default Re: Race of Cat People -- Kuthan

    Quote Originally Posted by Democratus
    The free feat would be the "Leap Attack" power. Although it is actually more powerful than the standard feat. It allows a roll-free jump of 30' combined with an immunity to AoO.

    Everythng in this race seems custom designed for playing a monk. All bonuses, save one, are in monk skills. And that skill (Handle Animal) is based off a stat with a -4 penalty. Most abilities encourage eschewing armor.

    The whole package just screams "ultimate cheese monk"! So it would be good to put a large ECL on the race.
    A point on the Leap attack. Make them have to make a Jump check of a yet-to-be decided DC to succeed.

    the +6 to Jump should also be unarmored.

    As for your comment on the monk stuff:
    They are not intended to be monks. I am going to go as far as to say that I may just ban them from being monks al together just because you think this is true. The only wrongness is that I can imagine this being a fun character to play as a monk, or a character of any class for that matter. Maybe make the Cha -6? I don't know, how do we make them fun without making them just like any ordinary race, and still have them at ECL +0?
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  11. - Top - End - #11
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Race of Cat People -- Kuthan

    re: Democratus. Sorry i couldn't address this, your post went in at the same time as my bigger response.

    Any suggestions to make the class...not stupid-monking-good? I'm looking for subtle fixes if possible, not something like "Kuthan get no bonus from Unarmed Strike feats." I'm pretty sure that'd be basically unprecedented anyway, so anything that's currently within the rules to fix them would be nice. Perhaps just axing a lot of the skill bonuses?

    re: tgva8889 the trouble with barring them from a certain class is that it makes them an almost NPC-only race by necessity. All the player races that I'm aware of allow the PC to pick any class (please point out any that don't, I'm not terribly familiar with non-Core material). Obviously we'd like them to be a PC race, so that fix is out.

    Edit: Changed Leap Attack to require a DC15 Jump check, and changed all skill bonuses except the Handle Animal check to only work with no armor. Yeah i know this doesn't fix the monk problem, but it does balance them a bit more as other classes.

    -JM
    When in doubt, light something on fire.

  12. - Top - End - #12
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    Default Re: Race of Cat People -- Kuthan

    Have it be without armor or a Medium or heavier load. Otherwise, people will complain.

    Also, THE JUMP CHECK IS STILL WITH ARMOR-ABLE!!!!!
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  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: Race of Cat People -- Kuthan

    change the modifier to +2 CHA - 2 WIS

    (cats are cute, but are deadly curious)

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  14. - Top - End - #14
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Race of Cat People -- Kuthan

    re: ryuan, The question is, are cats more cute or more agile? Perhaps they could have +2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Con, -2 Wis?

    -JM
    When in doubt, light something on fire.

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    Default Re: Race of Cat People -- Kuthan

    Quote Originally Posted by ryuan
    change the modifier to +2 CHA - 2 WIS

    (cats are cute, but are deadly curious)
    These are not "cats".

    They have the -4 Cha because they are tipically wild creatures, and are horribly paranoid of other races. Although the wisdom fits in that too. Does +2 Dex, -4 Cha, -2 Wis balance them out as ECL +0 races?

    Also, armor should not limit their ability to listen. That doesn't make sense (No! this Leather armor prevents me from hearing nearly as well!)
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  16. - Top - End - #16
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    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Race of Cat People -- Kuthan

    re: tgva8889 actually, since they are not a race accustomed to civilized living, it is very possible for armor to disrupt their Listen bonus. They could easily be so distracted by wearing armor that they will miss a sound that they would normally be able to hear. In fact, if it weren't for the fact that they're so crappy with armor anyway, I'd make that an additional fix (all actions a Kuthan takes while wearing armor are subject to a DC15 Concentrate check).

    -JM
    When in doubt, light something on fire.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: Race of Cat People -- Kuthan

    sorry, bad english ;D

    but they are a Cat race right?

    so what i said fits well: cut but deadly curious.

    and I don't see anything about paranoic, maybe.

    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  18. - Top - End - #18
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    Default Re: Race of Cat People -- Kuthan

    what's wrong with the Catfolk from Races of the Wild?
    Avatar done by idksocrates!

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    Default Re: Race of Cat People -- Kuthan

    Now that I think about it, the whole point of Sneak Attack is that it's a SURPRISE, and leap attack is a surprise, I mean, who wouldn't be surprised by a cat leaping at you? It also serves as a small deterent from being a Monk. You want to be a rogue so you can get the "jump" on your enemies and hit them with sneak attack, pun intended. Thus, it makes sense for the sneak attack to be included.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blade-Bearer_Ian
    what's wrong with the Catfolk from Races of the Wild?
    I am not paying money to buy a book purely for that race when I have my own mind to make one. Besides, does that race have the awesome Leap Attack?
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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Race of Cat People -- Kuthan

    Quote Originally Posted by ryuan
    change the modifier to +2 CHA - 2 WIS

    (cats are cute, but are deadly curious)
    Please, can't you see Cha is the dump stat here? ::)
    Jeff

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Race of Cat People -- Kuthan

    aww... but i like cat. :'(

    it's because in my country RPG Magasine they have some furry folks, and the cat ones had this characteristics

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    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Race of Cat People -- Kuthan

    re:tgva8889 duly noted. So I'm going to remove the "no sneak attack bonus" clause. Objections?

    re: Blade Bearer Ian. Well, to be honest I didn't know there was such a race. Are they a playable character race? Do they require an ECL? Basically, what's their deal? I'd like to tweak this race until they are an acceptable PC race at no ECL, so that's the goal of this.

    re: Jeff, one final edit, would you prefer if we spread out the negatives a bit more? Perhaps +2 Dex, -2 Con, -2 Cha? Or +2 DEX, -2 WIS, -2 CHA?

    Also, after some consideration, I think Leap attack should be a standard action that ends your turn for that round. This way, it is usable during the surprise action (as it should be) but is not stupid broken as you Leap Attack and then move away immediately after. Also, failing the Jump check now associated with Leap Attack will expend either a move or standard action for that round and you will be forced to instead take a move action, a standard action, or take no action.

    Edit: removed the "no sneak attack" clause and clarified what kind of action the Leap attack is.

    -JM
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  23. - Top - End - #23
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Race of Cat People -- Kuthan

    The Catfolk in Races of the Wild have +1 level adjustment, I'm afraid.
    Basically they're +4dex, +2Cha, 40ft land speed, +1 natural armour, +2 listen, +2 move silently, low-light vision and favoured class Ranger-- they have their own language aswell as common too.

  24. - Top - End - #24
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    Default Re: Race of Cat People -- Kuthan

    These guys don't have the same ridiculas bonuses as all the races with Level Adjustments, why do you think they deserve one? Leap Attack could actually be formulated into a normal action, other than that these guys are fair, to a point. They need to be armorless, that prevents them from being really good.
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    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Race of Cat People -- Kuthan

    agreed, +4 dex +2 cha is pretty nuts, along with +1 natural armor?

    I liked the 40 landspeed, but they could be adjusted to have only 30ft (putting them on par with other Medium races). Should we do that?

    -JM
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  26. - Top - End - #26
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    Default Re: Race of Cat People -- Kuthan

    Sorry to even have to do this, but BUMP!

    Anyways, yes we could reduce the landspeed.

    The bonuses of other races are much more than these, guys, the leap attack is kinda a feat, but not really.

    What was the other things?
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  27. - Top - End - #27
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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: Race of Cat People -- Kuthan

    Ahh, anthropomorphized cats. The only concept in D&D to see even more repeated re-designing and re-printing than the multitude of "Ninja" classes/PrCs.
    I don't want to be Elfstar any more! I want to be Debbie!

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    Default Re: Race of Cat People -- Kuthan

    Quote Originally Posted by Venatius
    Ahh, anthropomorphized cats. The only concept in D&D to see even more repeated re-designing and re-printing than the multitude of "Ninja" classes/PrCs.
    Unhelpful. And these are actually based off of Mirri and her race in Magic: The Gathering. You can see Mirri here
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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Race of Cat People -- Kuthan

    An attempt to bring them down from the current, somewhat obnoxious pinnacle that they are at in terms of LA. No justifications, because I'm short on time.

    +2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution, -2 Charisma
    Medium
    Base Land Speed 30 feet
    Low Light Vision
    Kuthan recieve a Claw attack that deals 1d4 damage, normal errata for natural attacks, I.E can be used as a secondary at a -5.
    Rake- With a succesful jump check (DC 20), when attacking a flatfooted opponent with only claws, a Kuthan may take a move action, then make a full attack.
    Skill Bonuses- +4 Hide, Move Silently, and Jump.
    May Speak with Cats (as the Tongues spell, but only for cats), once per day.
    LA +1

    To remove the LA entirely, remove the Rake ability.

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    Default Re: Race of Cat People -- Kuthan

    Except Rake is clearly worse than Leap Attack in every way.

    These creatures are also not restricted to not using any armor.
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