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Thread: "The Ancestors"

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    Default "The Ancestors"

    A race I plan on using for my campain, I was wondering if there is anything I should do to them. Here is my current idea for them.

    Medium Size
    30 ft. landspeed
    Aura: Like Cleric and Paladin ability of the same name
    Racial: +2 Knowledge (arcana) and Knowledge (history)
    Racial: +2 Diplomacy on creatures with the same alignment
    Racial: +2 dodge bonus on creatures with opposed alignments. A Lawful Good Ancestor would get a bonus against all Non-Lawful, Non-Good creatures. A True Neutral would get this bonus against all Non-Neutral creatures.
    Racial: +20 Disguse against non-"Ancestors" to look Human

    Description:
    "The Ancestors" are the believed gods of the world. They look exactly like humans, though there is a strangeness about them. Some seem fairer than others, while others feel fouler. Most of the members of this race that the "mortal" races have seen are known to be good, but it is rumored that there are some evil creatures of this race. It is hard to tell an "Ancestor" apart from a Human.

    These guys are kinda supposed to be deity-like, except that they aren't actually that powerful. It is widely rumored in the world that I am creating for these guys that the deities of the world were actually of this race, just extremely powerful. I also wonder whether there could have been a "demi-Ancestor", since they are supposed to look very much like a Human.
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    Default Re: "The Ancestors"

    Looks alright. Not sure about balance - they look a little strong for 0 LA, but far too weak for +1.
    The flavour's nice as well. Are they immortal? They sound a little like the immortals in Neil Gaiman's Sandman continuity. Hobb Gadling, and so on.
    Thanks to Veera for the avatar.

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    5E Sorcerous Origin: Arcanist

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    Default Re: "The Ancestors"

    This is an underpowered race in my opinion. I'd rather be a human and get the extra feat and skill points.
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    Default Re: "The Ancestors"

    Just thought of a question: Who do True Neutral Ancestors get the armour bonus against? LG, CG, LE and CE?
    Thanks to Veera for the avatar.

    I keep my stories in a blog. You should read them.

    5E Sorcerous Origin: Arcanist

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClericofPhwarrr View Post
    Dhavaer, your ideas are like candy from the sky, sprinkled lightly with cinnamon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll View Post
    Wow. Badass without being flashy and showy, attractive while remaining classy. Bravo Dhavaer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    ...Why do I imagine you licking your lips and rubbing your hands together?

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    Default Re: "The Ancestors"

    Quote Originally Posted by chiefwaha
    This is an underpowered race in my opinion. I'd rather be a human and get the extra feat and skill points.
    Except that they are so COOL....
    What, should I give them more bonuses? If so, what else should they be able to do that makes sense?

    This relates to the Half-Elves/Humans battle. I would much rather be human.

    They could be immortal...that would be a powerful balancing object...Ha ha, you decided to get those bonus skills and feat...how do you like it now, that you're dead and I'm not after 5000 years?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhavaer
    Just thought of a question: Who do True Neutral Ancestors get the armour bonus against? LG, CG, LE and CE?
    Yes, I will edit that now.
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    Default Re: "The Ancestors"

    Android: "I'm immortal and will live forever! How do you feel about your puny existence, human?"
    Dilbert: *Sob*
    Android: ...
    ...
    "I'm bored."

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    Default Re: "The Ancestors"

    That didn't help me at all.
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    Default Re: "The Ancestors"

    Well to make the more seriously considered than humans (which can live forever if you know how) maybe a racial ability score adjustment of some kind (an increase to Wis seems to fit the flavor but I'm probably just wierd), immortality, and maybe a +2 racial bonus to Knowledge(history)

    just my two gp

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    Default Re: "The Ancestors"

    There was actually a whole set of racial adjustments that I was told to remove by others on the forum, where there were 4 sets of bonuses:

    +2 Strength, -2 Wisdom
    +2 Dexterity, -2 Charisma
    +2 Wisdom, -2 Dexterity
    +2 Charisma, -2 Strength

    For certain class-types.
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    Default Re: "The Ancestors"

    I was one who discouraged the four different sets but they should have some kind of racial adjustments.

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    Default Re: "The Ancestors"

    Are they dead? If so that adds a whole mess of stuff.

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    Default Re: "The Ancestors"

    No, they are humanoids.
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    Default Re: "The Ancestors"

    Mention Immortality as a racial trait (live until killed). The bonus to Knowledge (History) seems like it fits. I'd toss (Religion) and maybe (Arcana) on too. I'd suggest giving them an ability bonus, but I can't think of any ability penalties that make sense.

    Also, you could give them a few cantrips/day.

    (Edited):
    The extremes (CE, CG, LE, LG) and True Neutral have four opposed alignments (either the opposite extreme, the two adjacent, and True Neutral) or all four extreme alignments. What do the Neutral-variants (CN, LN, NE, NG) have? If you give them only the opposite of their normal alignment (CN opposes all lawful, etc), then they have fewer opposed alignments, while if you give them all six that aren't their alignment, you're giving them more and making them non-mutually opposed to some alignments. I'd probably go with the former, despite the small discrepency.
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    Default Re: "The Ancestors"

    I don't know about immortallity, but the racial Skill bonuses to Knowledge (arcana) and (relgion) make sense. Knowledge (history) only makes sense if they are immortal. This would also make me have to come up with a reason that they aren't immortal: maybe they just have a much longer lifespan than humans.
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    Default Re: "The Ancestors"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhavaer
    Just thought of a question: Who do True Neutral Ancestors get the armour bonus against? LG, CG, LE and CE?
    That gets my vote.

    But they still seem somewhat underpowered. How about something to enhance their awe factor. Say, spontaneously cast Doom once per day as a supernatural ability?

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    Default Re: "The Ancestors"

    Or once a day they can use the equivalence of skate and my light at once. Very cool effect

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    Default Re: "The Ancestors"

    Uh...
    For Chaotic Neutral, you would be opposed to:

    Lawful Good, Neutral Good, Lawful Evil, and Netural Evil. That's all the non-Chaotic, Non-Neutral people.

    The Extremes are opposed to everything not on their side. Lawful Good doesn't like anything not Lawful or Good. Anything Lawful or Good, even Lawful Evil or Chaotic Good is fine by the Lawful Good Ancestor (for the dodge anyways)

    As for the spell-like abilities, maybe Doom or the opposite of Doom (don't remember the name), depending on alignment 1/day...makes them pretty cheap still though.
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    Default Re: "The Ancestors"

    i have more esoteric questions. like, what role does a race like this serve in a PC capacity?

    What is their aging process? Presumably they are born as full grown adults (OUCH!) how do they reach a mature physical age? How long does that take? What is the starting age? If you start off as a 20 or 30 something year old, but don't age physically, then who gives a rat's..... Most campaigns won't have a life span to make being immortal relevant. If you start at a couple hundred years old then the character should logically have some outrageous knowledge bonuses. If a standard human can gain a 5 - 10 ranking in local knowledge in a few years, what would an immortal have? +60? Take that into account for any skill.

    What possesses an immortal to go adventuring in the first place? They cannot die of old age, so they have no need for fast wealth. Can they die of starvation? Thirst? How does an immortal interract with beings that life for only a brief moment of their existence. +20 to hide their nature or not, immortals will behave differently with mortals. They will be inclined to take things much slower.

    Do they have a society? or culture? Do two immortals fall in love and have immortal babies. What, of any offspring, can immortal expect to have with a mortal? Would an immortal woman bear children with a mortal man if she knew they would die in a blink of her existence? Who is the oldest immortal?

    I'm not opposed to immortal type characters, I just tend to think we get wrapped up too much the Highlander movies and forget that it is tv show not a roleplaying game.
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    Default Re: "The Ancestors"

    Ok, I don't like the whole immortal thing either.

    They were SUPPOSED to be all different, with different bonuses, like:
    +2 Strength, -2 Wisdom
    +2 Dexterity, -2 Charisma
    +2 Wisdom, -2 Dexterity
    +2 Charisma, -2 Strength

    but no one really liked all those different bonuses on one race. But that's how they were going to be.

    They are actually grouped in the wilds of the "mortal worlds", protecting ancient devices (which allow the PCs to do something super cool in the world, but that's for a different post) or keeping the non-Ancestor races in check. There are some in the mortal cultures as well.

    They refer to other cultures as the "mortal" cultures, even though they are just as mortal as everyone else.

    Actually, they reproduce similar to Humans. So similar, they can mate with humans and produce Demis which actually have probably really cool abilities. A demi-Orc, Demi-Elf, or Demi-Orge might be cool! (a Half-Dragon Ancestor...I drool thinking about it...)
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    Default Re: "The Ancestors"

    Then why are they ancestors if they aren't immortal.

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    Default Re: "The Ancestors"

    Because, by technicality (or myth), they were the gods of our world. Their race was the one that built up the mortal world, and they are the ones that protect it.

    In my camapian, it's these guys, Dwarves, Half-Orcs, Gnomes, Humans, and some form of the Kuthans (see post here: http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb...48;start=15#15 and help on that also)

    That would make enough races. I think.

    Hope that works.
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    Default Re: "The Ancestors"

    Just an idea: Instead of being truly immortal they could have respectable lifespans but pass certain parts of they mind/soul/spirit/self to their offspring. Then you don't have to worry about the immoral thing, but they could still inherit (and therefore "remember") the ancient orders or secrets vital to their purpose.

    Also, I'm also weird and think a bonus (probably just +2) to Wisdom would both make sense and increase my likelihood to play one.

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    Default Re: "The Ancestors"

    How about they are long lived but eventually have to go into "hibernation" for a certain amount of time before coming out renewed and their memory becomes foggy after this so they have to relearn some things?
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    Default Re: "The Ancestors"

    Why +20 to disguise? The penalty for disguising as a different race is -2, so all you need to counter that is +2.

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