Please Delete the thread (question answered)

[Kol Korran]

i would have posted it at the quick questions section, but i have a game tonight, and i realy need to answer this (and once again, i'm away from my books)

do you have to be trained at a skill in order to use rituals keyed to that skill? or will you just be less skilled in performing them?

thanks a bunch,
Kol.

[shadzar]

You mean wiht a skill check for a ritual?

IIRC even with skill check it just determines effectiveness, not success or failure.

I will call someone and ask them real quick.

EDIT: I was just told you don't have to be trained and the skill check only happens after the ritual is cast. You can't take 10 on the check. The skills have certain components connected to them for the rituals that use the skills.

So I think it would be treated as an untrained skill check for whatever is needed.

Hope this helps in some way.

[Thajocoth]

You need to be trained in the relevant skill.

My source: The char builder will not let you purchase Arcana rituals if you're not trained in Arcana unless you click the Houserule button.

It'd be better if I could point to the PHB, wouldn't it?

[Tengu_temp]

The PHB states that you don't need to be trained in the skill.

[Thajocoth]

The PHB states that you don't need to be trained in the skill.

That's interesting... I guess the Char Builder must have a bug then. A strange one at that... It'd pretty much have to be a purposeful bug... Or a miscomunication, I suppose.

[KillianHawkeye]

You don't need to be trained in the skill.

You must meet two requirements to master a ritual. You must have the Ritual Caster feat (clerics and wizards get this feat at 1st level), and your level must equal or exceed the ritual's level. If you meet those requirements and spend 8 hours studying a ritual, you can add it to your list of mastered rituals.

Also...

A ritual's key skill determines the type of components required to perform the ritual, and if a ritual requires a skill check, the key skill is used for the check. If this entry ends with "(no check)," then the ritual does not require a skill check.
If a ritual has more than one key skill, you choose which skill to use. Your choice determines both the components you use and the skill you use for any checks required by the ritual.
Unless a ritual's description says otherwise, you make your skill check when you finish performing a ritual. You can't take 10 on one of these skill checks.

Nothing in there about needing to be trained in the particular skill. Of course, you need to be trained in either Arcana or Religion to take Ritual Caster (and all the classes who get Ritual Caster for free automatically have training in one of those skills already). According to the text, you're not prohibited from learning rituals that use a skill you're not trained it, although I think it's generally assumed most people will stick to the rituals designed for their class.

EDIT: Bah, ninja'd!

[RTGoodman]

That's interesting... I guess the Char Builder must have a bug then. A strange one at that... It'd pretty much have to be a purposeful bug... Or a miscomunication, I suppose.

Just to check - are you sure the ones it won't let you add are ALL Arcana-based rituals, or are they maybe the specifically Bard-only ones? That could be the cause, since I don't think I've had the ritual problem before.

[Thajocoth]

Just to check - are you sure the ones it won't let you add are ALL Arcana-based rituals, or are they maybe the specifically Bard-only ones? That could be the cause, since I don't think I've had the ritual problem before.

That's possible. Though I think Enchant Magic Item may have been one... Meh, too lazy to open the builder to check.

[Kol Korran]

thanks to all who answered. the meeting came and went, and the issue didn't pick up (my players though of a different, quite harder, solution. they forgot they had the ritual).
i will go with the PHB ruling, not needing to be trained i nthe ritual.

hhhmmm, side thought- that means any ritual caster of a high enough level can basically cast raise dead with no problem, no?

again, thanks to all, i think the thread can be deleted.

[ResplendentFire]

again, thanks to all, i think the thread can be deleted.

No need for that - the information might be useful for someone else.