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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground

    Join Date
    Feb 2005

    Default Help me even out this base class

    The logic behind this class is to have them not good in combat but be invaluble because of their wide variety of skills

    The Master

    HD: d4
    BAB: 1/2 level (as wizard)
    Ford: poor
    Reflex: good
    Will: poor
    Class Skills: All except Autohypnosis, Concentration, Psycraft and Spellcraft
    Skill Points: 10+int (x4 at first level)

    Weapon Proficiencies: Club, Dagger, Sap, Gauntlet, unarmed strike

    1st: Trapfinding, Bonus Feat
    3rd: Trap Sense +1
    4th: Bonus Feat
    5th: Mastery +1
    6th: Trap Sense +2
    7th: Bonus Feat
    8th: Use what's at hand
    9th: Trap Sense +3
    10th: Quick Search, Bonus Feat, Mastery +2
    12th: Trap Sense +4
    13th: Bonus Feat
    15th: Trap Sense +5, Mastery +3
    16th: Bonus Feat
    18th: Trap Sense +6
    19th: Bonus Feat
    20th: Mastery +4

    Bonus Feat
    Choose a feat from the list:
    Acrobatic, Agile, Alertness, Animal Affinity, Athletic, Decietful, Deft Hands, Diligent, Investigator, Negotator, Nimble Fingers, Persuasive, Self-Sufficent, Skill Focus, or Stealthy

    At 5th level, The Master gets a +1 bonus on all skills that he has ranks in. This bonus increases by +1 at 10th, 15th, and 20th levels

    Use what's at hand
    At 8th level, The Master may now use improvised tools at no penalty

    Quick Search
    At 10th level, Searching for the master takes half the time as normal with no penalties

    I need to flesh it out a bit in the later levels but I'm going for somthing like a rogue but instead of combat abilities, more skills that can be useful in many situations. The whole pont of this class is to be a sort of...rogue stand in. better than the rogue as far as skills go, but pretty bad in combat. I would appreciate the help

    EDIT: Added Hit Dice, Changed Skill Points Per Level

    EDIT: Removed Evaision and Uncany Dodge, Added Weapon Profiencies

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2005

    Default Re: Help me even out this base class

    An Expert without the former's combat prowess, hm, I take it this is for NPC use only in mainstream adventures?

    Maybe the bonus feats could include the various trait described gives +2 on two skills feats?

    And maybe a class ability that lets it ignore the max skill ranks cap?

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
    The_Chilli_God's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Ignorance (Auckland, NZ)

    Default Re: Help me even out this base class

    My opinion?
    Give the guy some Hit Dice, man!

    Secondly, the DMG says that the Expert NPC class is almost good enough to be a PC class in its own right, and they only have 6+int skill points, but they get 10 skills of their own to choose from. Giving twice their skill points, and every skill save for Concentration and Spellcraft (why, I have no clue), and bonus skill focus feats, the awesomeness of extra skill bonuses, and every non-combat-related rogue ability, It's just plain stupid IMO. Tone it down just a wee bit.

    Thirdly, if you're going to use the 'combat suckiness' argument, I know a half-dozen rogues that are perfectly functional PC's but have little to no combat potential. Rogues can scout, hide, trap-find, spy, lie, cheat, steal, sabotage, night-watch and use magic items without ever making use of one sneak attack die.

    But then again, I've never made a custom class in my life, so what the heck do I know?
    The Chilli God has Spoken.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    the center of the sun

    Default Re: Help me even out this base class

    take out evasion and uncanny dodge, that should balence it a little and have nothing to do with skills.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Pixie in the Playground
    Blade-Bearer_Ian's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    NB, Canada

    Default Re: Help me even out this base class

    It's a good NPC class to be sure. mebbe you can set up guilds in the major cities that hire out elite skill people. Personally wouldn't want to play it myself though, as we never would be able to use all those skills...

    I say you should give him a feature once or twice that lets him extend the caps on skill ranks. Like 4+class level and later 5+class level instead of 3+CL
    Avatar done by idksocrates!

    DM: You wake up in a room somewhat similar to the one you passed out in, except brighter, and cleaner.
    Me: I check for my kidneys.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2005

    Default Re: Help me even out this base class

    Well, using the Class Construction System (found on in the classes section), your class would come out as this:

    Hit die d4: 5 points
    BAB low: 10 points
    1 Good save: 10 points
    43 class skills: 43 points
    10 skill points: 85 points

    Trapfinding: 4 points
    Bonus feats: 28 points
    Evasion: 4 points
    Trapsense: 10 points
    Uncanny Dodge: 4 points
    Mastery: 14 points
    Use what's at hand: 2 points
    Quick Search: 1 point

    Together this would make 220 points, not counting weapon and armor proficiencies, which you still haven't set.
    Considering that the average of all the core classes (including those from the Extended Psionics Handbook) have 215 points, this class is overpowered right away. Granted, the actual abilities, even though they are powerful in the math of the system, probably show very little use in actual gameplay. I don't think he'll ever get to use all of those skills, and other than that, he's just a sort of specialized rogue.

    An interesting idea, yes, but probably ill suited for a PC class at this stage.


  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground

    Join Date
    Feb 2005

    Default Re: Help me even out this base class

    Okay, I made a few changes, I know that most PCs won't want to play it but whatever

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Rei_Jin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Sydney, Australia

    Default Re: Help me even out this base class

    If you are looking at a skilled character, might I suggest looking at the Exemplar PrC from the Complete Adventurer. You could modify it and stretch it out to 20 levels. The Exemplar is based solely and wholely on skill use, and gains bonuses to help her in those skills.
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