Weapon Size Category advice

[Tyrael]

Heya, folks. Just a quick question. I'm joining a 21st-level gestalt game with a character based around a ginormous Great Crossbow, basically the DnD equivalent of a .50 caliber rifle. Ideally, I want to bump the size category up to Large or even Huge, which would give me a delicious 4d8 base damage. However, PHB states that I take a cumulative -2 penalty for each size category difference.

I'm looking at feats to offset this, and came upon Monkey Grip...which appears to do absolutely nothing for my purposes. It lets me use a weapon one size category larger...in exchange for a -2 penalty. Isn't that the same penalty you get anyway?

Are there any other feats out there that allow for improved size category wielding? Or items?

Edit: Another minor question: A Great Crossbow requires a Full-Round action to reload (down to a move action with Rapid Reload), yes? Is it possible to use Rapid Shot with a Great Crossbow and Rapid Reload?

[ex cathedra]

Strongarm Bracers, from the MiC. 6000gp. Allows you to wield weapons one size category larger with no penalty.

[arkol]

When you increase the size of a weapon, it's "handability" also increases.

Exemple: you're MEDIUM. You want a LARGE longsword. A longsword for a medium creature is a one handed weapon. If you make it large it becomes a two-handed weapon.

If by increasing the size it would become something other then light, one handed or two handed, then you CAN'T USE THE WEAPON AT ALL.

That's what monkey grip allows you to do. Actually use the weapon, but keep the usual unsize penalty.

[AslanCross]

Heya, folks. Just a quick question. I'm joining a 21st-level gestalt game with a character based around a ginormous Great Crossbow, basically the DnD equivalent of a .50 caliber rifle. Ideally, I want to bump the size category up to Large or even Huge, which would give me a delicious 4d8 base damage. However, PHB states that I take a cumulative -2 penalty for each size category difference.

I'm looking at feats to offset this, and came upon Monkey Grip...which appears to do absolutely nothing for my purposes. It lets me use a weapon one size category larger...in exchange for a -2 penalty. Isn't that the same penalty you get anyway?

Are there any other feats out there that allow for improved size category wielding? Or items?

Edit: Another minor question: A Great Crossbow requires a Full-Round action to reload (down to a move action with Rapid Reload), yes? Is it possible to use Rapid Shot with a Great Crossbow and Rapid Reload?

Strongarm Bracers is your best bet, but the most it gets you is a Large Great Crossbow (serious business in its own right). It doesn't cost you a feat, and doesn't penalize you.

You can't Rapid Shot unless reloading is a free action, since Rapid Shot requires you to make a full attack. Alternatively there's the Quick Loading weapon property from Magic Item Compendium, which does the same as Rapid Shot AND keeps an internal extradimensional store of bolts.

[Myrmex]

After strongarm bracers, there aren't any ways to get proficiency with bigger weapons without being bigger yourself.

If you went with goliath as your race, you get large weapons, despite being medium size, and strongarm bracers would let you use huge weapons. Since you are a monstrous humanoid, you can't use expand person to make yourself bigger, but the psychic power "expansion" will increase your size category by one, so you are now using a a gargantuan weapon. If you have enough manifester levels, you can use expansion to go up two size, and be wielding a colossal crossbow.

The problem with a goliath is -2 dex (not a big deal at level 21), and the LA +1 (easily bought off and a negligible xp difference at level 21).

Another option would be to carry your humongous crossbow in a bag of holding, and then use wildshape, polymorph, or shapechange to into something really big (preferably a golem or other sort of robotic looking thing) and whip out your crossbow as needed.

A Ha-Naga has 20 HD, which means you can shape change into it. Besides a bunch of nasty abilities (and 21st level sorcerer spellcasting to boot), it is of colossal size. If you cast the spell girallon's blessing from spell compendium on yourself, you grow an extra pair of arms, which you could put strongarm bracers on, and then use your crossbow. You would be firing Colossal+ crossbow bolts!

[Tyrael]

So Monkey Grip doesn't stack with Strongarm Bracers?

Edit: I was thinking of going Kobold just for Hilarious Points and Coolness Points, but would that nerf the concept too much?

[Darrin]

I'm looking at feats to offset this, and came upon Monkey Grip...which appears to do absolutely nothing for my purposes. It lets me use a weapon one size category larger...in exchange for a -2 penalty. Isn't that the same penalty you get anyway?

This is why every other month or so, we see yet another "Monkey Grip Stinks!" thread, where someone expresses an interest in wielding an oversize weapon and mistakenly thinks that Monkey Grip can help. Although there are a small number of conditions where Monkey Grip is actually useful, it's just easier if you pretend it doesn't exist or houserule it into something that works the way you think it should.

Are there any other feats out there that allow for improved size category wielding? Or items?

In addition to Strongarm Bracers (which have been mentioned a few times now... MIC, 6000 GP, worth every penny), there's also Half-Giants and Goliaths with Powerful Build. LA is +1, but with such a high-level gestalt game you can sink the LA on one side or ask the DM if he'll allow you to assume LA buyoff.

There's also a Touchstone site in Sandstorm, Sunken City of Pazar, that offers an ability very similar to Powerful Build, but it only works 1/day for 1 minute.

Another method in Unearthed Arcana is the Titan Bloodline, but you'll want to check with your DM to see if he can tweak it, since by RAW the "Use Oversize Weapon" ability only lets you wield a gargantuan-sized warhammer and nothing else.

The best method to get up to a Huge or Gargantuan weapon is to take 4-8 levels of Psychic Warrior, pick up Expansion, and Augment it for two size increases. With Strongarm Bracers or Powerful Build, that should get you a Gargantuan Great Crossbow.

Another method would be just to polymorph, wildshape, or alter self into something bigger. Wildshape Ranger 5/MoMF 6 can get up to Huge (or Druid 15). Phylactery of Change (A&EG, 11200 GP) can give you indefinite polymorph all day into any creature up to 7HD. Fiend Ring (Lost Empires of Faerun, 30000 GP) can turn you into any fiendish creature, demon, or devil that can be summoned via SMI/II/III/IV, *and* you get their SLAs and supernatural abilities. And finally, buying Polymorph Any Object is fairly cheap: 1200 GP for just the spellcasting or 3000 for a scroll. If you're worried about it being dispelled, outfit yourself with two spellblades, one tuned to dispel magic and the other to greater dispel magic.

Edit: Another minor question: A Great Crossbow requires a Full-Round action to reload (down to a move action with Rapid Reload), yes? Is it possible to use Rapid Shot with a Great Crossbow and Rapid Reload?

This is a bit trickier. Check with your DM if a Quick Loading (MIC, +1 bonus) crossbow combined with the Rapid Reload feat would count as a free action. Otherwise, maybe try a use-activated/continuos Ghostly Reload spell effect (Races of the Dragon), although you'll have to check with your DM on what caster level might be appropriate for a Great Crossbow. If that doesn't work... grab a wand of Unseen Servant and summon one per each iterative attack. Have them spend a full-round action to reload the crossbow whenever you fire a bolt.

Another work-around might be a Great Crossbow with a use-activated/continuous Launch Bolt spell effect (Spell Compendium). Again, this may require some buy-in from your DM to interpret whether a size penalty applies. The spell says treat it as if you had fired the bolt from a light crossbow, and I'm not sure how that would work with a Huge or Gargantuan Great Crossbow. At that point, you're pretty much asking the GM for a custom magic item. Given that it's a high-level gestalt game, what you want to do doesn't sound all that particularly overpowered.

[Myrmex]

If it weren't for Strongarm Bracers, which is relatively recent, monkey grip is exceedingly useful for damage at large sizes. Once you get over a large weapon, increasing dice scales very nicely.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

If it weren't for Strongarm Bracers, which is relatively recent, monkey grip is exceedingly useful for damage at large sizes. Once you get over a large weapon, increasing dice scales very nicely.

You have to get more than +4 from the damage to justify it, though, just to be better than the more versatile and less restrictive Power Attack that you already took. Until you're huge, it's not worth it, and even after that, it's only adding 3.5 points over just PA(without PA boosters). Not worth a feat IMHO.

[Myrmex]

You have to get more than +4 from the damage to justify it, though, just to be better than the more versatile and less restrictive Power Attack that you already took. Until you're huge, it's not worth it, and even after that, it's only adding 3.5 points over just PA(without PA boosters). Not worth a feat IMHO.

7 additional points of damage for a feat is definitely worth it. It's slightly better than other feats, such as weapon focus, specialization, etc. Combined with deep impact, you can also full power attack on top of it, without worrying about a negative AC.

[AslanCross]

Where's the extra 7 damage coming from? A Large greatsword only deals an average of 3.5 damage more than a Medium greatsword. You'll have to go from Medium to Huge to get an increase of 7. A Large Great Crossbow only deals an additional average 4.5 damage.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Where's the extra 7 damage coming from? A Large greatsword only deals an average of 3.5 damage more than a Medium greatsword. You'll have to go from Medium to Huge to get an increase of 7. A Large Great Crossbow only deals an additional average 4.5 damage.

Huge to Gargantuan, or Gargantuan to Colossal adds 7 damage. But you're still eating a -2 AB penalty for it, and spending a feat. Power Attack which you have already turns -2 AB into +4 damage(or better), so you're spending a feat for +3.5 damage anyways. IMHO there are too many good feats to justify that.

[Faleldir]

You could use a +1 Aptitude large great crossbow with Hand Crossbow Focus. Upgrade it to +1 Aptitude Speed Splitting. Call it Sasha.

I'd suggest taking two levels of Monk, Unorthodox Flurry (anything) and Improved Natural Attack. Because it's an Aptitude weapon, you can Flurry with your great crossbow and it deals Huge damage. Just don't lose it.