Best, worst, and inbetween classes

[Da Pwnzlord]

What is the ranking on all the PC base classes? Wizard seems to be almost universally regarded as the best class, and druid is also highly rated. On the other end, monk and samurai are among the the worst. But although I can figure out what most people seem to be the best and worst classes are, it's hard to find out the middle stuff, and how they compare to eachother. Where do things like ranger and paladin fit in? Which is better, Favored Soul or sorcerer? Etc, etc.

[lsfreak]

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...p?topic=1002.0
The Tier System of Classes.

Spoiler

Show

The Tier System

Tier 1: Capable of doing absolutely everything, often better than classes that specialize in that thing. Often capable of solving encounters with a single mechanical ability and little thought from the player. Has world changing powers at high levels. These guys, if played well, can break a campaign and can be very hard to challenge without extreme DM fiat, especially if Tier 3s and below are in the party.

Examples: Wizard, Cleric, Druid, Archivist, Artificer, Erudite

Tier 2: Has as much raw power as the Tier 1 classes, but can't pull off nearly as many tricks, and while the class itself is capable of anything, no one build can actually do nearly as much as the Tier 1 classes. Still potencially campaign smashers by using the right abilities, but at the same time are more predictable and can't always have the right tool for the job. If the Tier 1 classes are countries with 10,000 nuclear weapons in their arsenal, these guys are countries with 10 nukes. Still dangerous and world shattering, but not in quite so many ways. Note that the Tier 2 classes are often less flexible than Tier 3 classes... it's just that their incredible potential power overwhelms their lack in flexibility.

Examples: Sorcerer, Favored Soul, Psion, Binder (with access to online vestiges)

Tier 3: Capable of doing one thing quite well, while still being useful when that one thing is inappropriate, or capable of doing all things, but not as well as classes that specialize in that area. Occasionally has a mechanical ability that can solve an encounter, but this is relatively rare and easy to deal with. Challenging such a character takes some thought from the DM, but isn't too difficult. Will outshine any Tier 5s in the party much of the time.

Examples: Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Crusader, Bard, Swordsage, Binder (without access to the summon monster vestige), Wildshape Varient Ranger, Duskblade, Factotum, Warblade, Psionic Warrior

Tier 4: Capable of doing one thing quite well, but often useless when encounters require other areas of expertise, or capable of doing many things to a reasonable degree of competance without truly shining. Rarely has any abilities that can outright handle an encounter unless that encounter plays directly to the class's main strength. DMs may sometimes need to work to make sure Tier 4s can contribue to an encounter, as their abilities may sometimes leave them useless. Won't outshine anyone except Tier 6s except in specific circumstances that play to their strengths. Cannot compete effectively with Tier 1s that are played well.

Examples: Rogue, Barbarian, Warlock, Warmage, Scout, Ranger, Hexblade, Adept, Spellthief, Marshal, Fighter (Dungeoncrasher Variant)

Tier 5: Capable of doing only one thing, and not necessarily all that well, or so unfocused that they have trouble mastering anything, and in many types of encounters the character cannot contribute. In some cases, can do one thing very well, but that one thing is very often not needed. Has trouble shining in any encounter unless the rest of the party is weak in that situation and the encounter matches their strengths. DMs may have to work to avoid the player feeling that their character is worthless unless the entire party is Tier 4 and below. Characters in this tier will often feel like one trick ponies if they do well, or just feel like they have no tricks at all if they build the class poorly.

Examples: Fighter, Monk, CA Ninja, Healer, Swashbuckler, Rokugan Ninja, Soulknife, Expert, Paladin, Knight

Tier 6: Not even capable of shining in their own area of expertise. DMs will need to work hard to make encounters that this sort of character can contribute in with their mechanical abilities. Will often feel worthless unless the character is seriously powergamed beyond belief, and even then won't be terribly impressive. Needs to fight enemies of lower than normal CR. Class is often completely unsynergized or with almost no abilities of merit. Avoid allowing PCs to play these characters.

Examples: CW Samurai, Aristocrat, Warrior, Commoner

And then there's the Truenamer, which is just broken (as in, the class was improperly made and doesn't function appropriately).

Now, obviously these rankings only apply when mechanical abilities are being used... in a more social oriented game where talking is the main way of solving things (without using diplomacy checks), any character can shine. However, when the mechanical abilities of the classes in question are being used, it's a bad idea to have parties with more than two tiers of difference.

It is interesting to note the disparity between the core classes... one of the reasons core has so many problems. If two players want to play a nature oriented shapeshifter and a general sword weilder, you're stuck with two very different tiered guys in the party (Fighter and Druid). Outside of core, it's possible to do it while staying on close Tiers... Wild Shape Variant Ranger and Warblade, for example.

Should be noted that this topic comes up about once a month along with a few other topics, so you can search for more discussion.

[Draz74]

A rough list that I made. No one will agree with every detail of it (I'm sure there's some things even I would revise if I re-examined it), but almost everyone will agree with it by approximation.

Artificer, Wizard, Archivist, Druid, Cleric, Psion, Sorcerer, Beguiler, Crusader, Swordsage, Warblade, Wu Jen, Spirit Shaman, Favored Soul, Ardent, Dread Necromancer, Psychic Warrior, Duskblade, Warlock, Dragonfire Adept, Spellthief, Bard, Shugenja, Factotum, Totemist, Knight, Barbarian, Rogue, Binder, Ranger, Lurk, Scout, Incarnate, Warmage, Wilder, Fighter, Shadowcaster, Healer, Paladin, Divine Mind, Soulborn, Hexblade, Dragon Shaman, Adept, Magewright, Marshal, Ninja, Truenamer, Monk, Swashbuckler, Soulknife, Expert, Samurai, Warrior, Aristocrat, Commoner

From most powerful to least powerful, obviously.

[GreyMantle]

It's really difficult to get classes in exact order. What's more useful is a general indication of the power levels in comparison to other classes. JaronK's tier system (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...p?topic=1002.0) does a decent job of this. (Ignoring, for example, that Dread Necromancer's get planar binding and are thus capable of breaking the game at level 12, or his personal vendetta against Rogues)

Equally important to how powerful a class is is how skilled/caring a player is.

EDIT: Totally ninjad.

[Kris Strife]

A rough list that I made. No one will agree with every detail of it (I'm sure there's some things even I would revise if I re-examined it), but almost everyone will agree with it by approximation.



From most powerful to least powerful, obviously.

I thought Dragon Flame Adept is often considered to outrank standard Warlock due to meta breath and entangling exhalation feats as well as some of the invocations?

And I thought Monk was lower on the list than you have it.

[Vaynor]

A rough list that I made. No one will agree with every detail of it (I'm sure there's some things even I would revise if I re-examined it), but almost everyone will agree with it by approximation.



From most powerful to least powerful, obviously.

I gotta say, I just love how Samurai is below Expert.

[Dhavaer]

I'm mildly surprised Monk is below Truenamer.

[sofawall]

Item Familiars and skill-boosting items make them playable.

[Sinfire Titan]

A rough list that I made. No one will agree with every detail of it (I'm sure there's some things even I would revise if I re-examined it), but almost everyone will agree with it by approximation.



From most powerful to least powerful, obviously.

Truenamer needs to be lower on that chart. It's actually worse than the Expert, but only slightly better than the Commoner (due to better BAB and skills). If the Truenaming ability is optimized enough, it goes up 2 tiers. At level 18, it shoots up to Tier 2 thanks to the Gate Invocation being at will at that point.

[Dixieboy]

A rough list that I made. No one will agree with every detail of it (I'm sure there's some things even I would revise if I re-examined it), but almost everyone will agree with it by approximation.



From most powerful to least powerful, obviously.

...

Truenamer over monk?
I'm afraid i have to hit you now
*virtual slap*

[Wings of Peace]

A rough list that I made. No one will agree with every detail of it (I'm sure there's some things even I would revise if I re-examined it), but almost everyone will agree with it by approximation.



From most powerful to least powerful, obviously.

I don't understand why artificer is so high. In terms of raw damage potential maybe and potential utility it's good. But a fully optimized out Archivist can potentially access every spell in the game, prc into anything they desire, and do it all whether in an anti-magic or similar circumstance (Depending on your interpretation of their spell lists.) That seems like quite alot more potential to me than the artificer but there are likely those who would disagree with me

[Frog Dragon]

While I'm not so sure on the particulars. It comes down to this

Near-free crafting of eternal wands 2 spell levels higher than your party should have of essentially any spell list.

[Coidzor]

While I'm not so sure on the particulars. It comes down to this

Near-free crafting of eternal wands 2 spell levels higher than your party should have of essentially any spell list.

What? At most it would be one spell level due to the 2 levels ahead crafting. Unless you're referencing some way to boost it.

Given enough down time and standard adventuring though, and yeah, Artificer pretty powerful. I think they drop down two tiers if they're "rushed" so that their down-time is less copious and prioritization of whether to buy it, make it, or do without it until it can be made later becomes key...

Wonder what character class has the highest chance/highest possible impact on the world pre-epic.

[Sinfire Titan]

Wonder what character class has the highest chance/highest possible impact on the world pre-epic.

Pre-Epic? Toss-up between Shadowcraft Mage Wizard and Planar Shepard Druid,

[Zaq]

Pre-Epic? Toss-up between Shadowcraft Mage Wizard and Planar Shepard Druid,

Wizard over Druid, hands down. The Druid kicks ridiculous amounts of ass in combat, but aside from some Control Weather shenanigans, doesn't have nearly as much potential impact on the world (at a larger scale) as the wizzie.

[aivanther]

Wizard over Druid, hands down. The Druid kicks ridiculous amounts of ass in combat, but aside from some Control Weather shenanigans, doesn't have nearly as much potential impact on the world (at a larger scale) as the wizzie.

Yes, but PLANAR SHEPHERD gets flat out ridiculous. Being able to wildshape to virtually anything from your attuned plane and wildshape into a magical beast or outsider from that plane...it gets pretty over the top if you choose your plane right...

[Kurald Galain]

Time for this table again:

{table]Class|Cnt.|Avg.|SD|Med.|Mode|Min/Max|Spread|Comment
wizard|42|9.67|0.45|10.00|10.00|9/10|1|<=== Supreme Tier
archivist|38|9.63|0.62|10.00|10.00|7/10|3
artificer|37|9.39|0.76|10.00|10.00|8/10|2
druid|41|9.38|0.65|9.50|10.00|8/10|2
cleric|42|9.16|0.76|9.00|9.00|7/10|3
psion|32|8.35|0.73|8.00|8.00|7/10|3
sorcerer|39|8.20|1.01|8.00|8.00|4/10|6
erudite|11|8.15|1.35|9.00|9.00|5/9|4

beguiler|34|7.79|0.73|8.00|8.00|6/9|3|<=== Strong Tier
wu jen|20|7.58|0.94|8.00|8.00|5/9|4
spirit shaman|21|7.29|1.95|7.00|9.00|3/10|7
favored soul|30|7.23|1.03|7.00|8.00|5/9|4
dread necromancer|30|7.10|1.16|7.00|7.00|3/10|7
ardent|12|7.07|1.31|7.00|6.00|5/9|4
warblade|35|6.88|0.90|7.00|7.00|4/8|4
crusader|37|6.62|1.12|7.00|7.00|4/8|4
swordsage|34|6.55|0.89|6.82|6.00|5/8|3
wilder|16|6.46|1.76|7.00|7.00|3/10|7
shugenja|19|6.44|1.26|7.00|7.00|4/8|4
dragonfire adept|23|6.29|0.92|6.00|7.00|4/8|4
duskblade|34|6.09|0.87|6.00|6.00|4/8|4
psychic warrior|32|6.02|1.18|6.00|6.00|3/8|5
warlock|38|6.00|0.90|6.00|6.00|4/8|4

factotum|31|5.98|1.02|6.00|6.00|4/8|4|<=== Average Tier
binder|28|5.96|1.37|6.00|6.00|3/8|5
totemist|14|5.64|1.28|5.50|5.00|3/7|4
rogue|39|5.62|1.27|5.00|5.00|3/8|5
bard|38|5.45|1.52|6.00|6.00|1/8|7
warmage|37|5.41|1.62|6.00|7.00|1/9|8
scout|36|5.27|1.03|5.00|6.00|3/7|4
shadowcaster|22|5.03|1.79|5.13|4.00|2/8|6
barbarian|39|4.99|1.16|5.00|5.00|2/8|6
ranger|39|4.94|1.07|5.00|5.00|2/7|5
incarnate|11|4.94|1.14|5.00|4.00|3/7|4
lurk|11|4.79|1.64|4.00|4.00|2/8|6
dragon shaman|26|4.61|1.44|5.00|5.00|2/7|5
knight|37|4.27|1.03|4.00|4.00|3/6|3
swashbuckler|37|4.24|1.36|4.00|5.00|1/7|6
paladin|40|4.22|1.15|4.00|5.00|1/6|5
soulborn|11|4.15|1.15|4.00|4.00|3/7|4

ninja|33|3.97|1.29|4.00|4.00|2/8|6|<=== Weak Tier
fighter|41|3.88|1.41|4.00|4.00|1/8|7
hexblade|36|3.81|1.33|3.50|3.00|2/7|5
divine mind|11|3.67|2.30|3.00|3.00|1/8|7
marshal|29|3.66|1.17|4.00|3.00|2/6|4
adept|5|3.60|1.52|3.00|3.00|2/6|4
monk|41|3.51|1.38|3.00|3.00|2/8|6
healer|29|3.21|2.06|3.00|2.00|1/9|8
spellthief|29|3.16|1.20|3.00|4.00|1/6|5
truenamer|18|2.66|1.68|2.93|3.00|0/6|6
expert|5|2.40|0.55|2.00|2.00|2/3|1
soulknife|25|2.35|1.22|2.00|2.00|0/5|5
samurai|37|1.69|0.66|2.00|2.00|1/3|2
warrior|6|1.67|0.82|1.50|1.00|1/3|2
aristocrat|5|1.40|0.55|1.00|1.00|1/2|1
commoner|5|0.60|0.55|1.00|1.00|0/1|1
[/table]


Note that the truenamer is a bit of a problem to classify, because its low power is in large part the result of a very easy to fix error in the DC of its truenaming skill.

[Brom]

Time for this table again:

{table]Class|Cnt.|Avg.|SD|Med.|Mode|Min/Max|Spread|Comment
wizard|42|9.67|0.45|10.00|10.00|9/10|1|<=== Supreme Tier
archivist|38|9.63|0.62|10.00|10.00|7/10|3
artificer|37|9.39|0.76|10.00|10.00|8/10|2
druid|41|9.38|0.65|9.50|10.00|8/10|2
cleric|42|9.16|0.76|9.00|9.00|7/10|3
psion|32|8.35|0.73|8.00|8.00|7/10|3
sorcerer|39|8.20|1.01|8.00|8.00|4/10|6
erudite|11|8.15|1.35|9.00|9.00|5/9|4

beguiler|34|7.79|0.73|8.00|8.00|6/9|3|<=== Strong Tier
wu jen|20|7.58|0.94|8.00|8.00|5/9|4
spirit shaman|21|7.29|1.95|7.00|9.00|3/10|7
favored soul|30|7.23|1.03|7.00|8.00|5/9|4
dread necromancer|30|7.10|1.16|7.00|7.00|3/10|7
ardent|12|7.07|1.31|7.00|6.00|5/9|4
warblade|35|6.88|0.90|7.00|7.00|4/8|4
crusader|37|6.62|1.12|7.00|7.00|4/8|4
swordsage|34|6.55|0.89|6.82|6.00|5/8|3
wilder|16|6.46|1.76|7.00|7.00|3/10|7
shugenja|19|6.44|1.26|7.00|7.00|4/8|4
dragonfire adept|23|6.29|0.92|6.00|7.00|4/8|4
duskblade|34|6.09|0.87|6.00|6.00|4/8|4
psychic warrior|32|6.02|1.18|6.00|6.00|3/8|5
warlock|38|6.00|0.90|6.00|6.00|4/8|4

factotum|31|5.98|1.02|6.00|6.00|4/8|4|<=== Average Tier
binder|28|5.96|1.37|6.00|6.00|3/8|5
totemist|14|5.64|1.28|5.50|5.00|3/7|4
rogue|39|5.62|1.27|5.00|5.00|3/8|5
bard|38|5.45|1.52|6.00|6.00|1/8|7
warmage|37|5.41|1.62|6.00|7.00|1/9|8
scout|36|5.27|1.03|5.00|6.00|3/7|4
shadowcaster|22|5.03|1.79|5.13|4.00|2/8|6
barbarian|39|4.99|1.16|5.00|5.00|2/8|6
ranger|39|4.94|1.07|5.00|5.00|2/7|5
incarnate|11|4.94|1.14|5.00|4.00|3/7|4
lurk|11|4.79|1.64|4.00|4.00|2/8|6
dragon shaman|26|4.61|1.44|5.00|5.00|2/7|5
knight|37|4.27|1.03|4.00|4.00|3/6|3
swashbuckler|37|4.24|1.36|4.00|5.00|1/7|6
paladin|40|4.22|1.15|4.00|5.00|1/6|5
soulborn|11|4.15|1.15|4.00|4.00|3/7|4

ninja|33|3.97|1.29|4.00|4.00|2/8|6|<=== Weak Tier
fighter|41|3.88|1.41|4.00|4.00|1/8|7
hexblade|36|3.81|1.33|3.50|3.00|2/7|5
divine mind|11|3.67|2.30|3.00|3.00|1/8|7
marshal|29|3.66|1.17|4.00|3.00|2/6|4
adept|5|3.60|1.52|3.00|3.00|2/6|4
monk|41|3.51|1.38|3.00|3.00|2/8|6
healer|29|3.21|2.06|3.00|2.00|1/9|8
spellthief|29|3.16|1.20|3.00|4.00|1/6|5
truenamer|18|2.66|1.68|2.93|3.00|0/6|6
expert|5|2.40|0.55|2.00|2.00|2/3|1
soulknife|25|2.35|1.22|2.00|2.00|0/5|5
samurai|37|1.69|0.66|2.00|2.00|1/3|2
warrior|6|1.67|0.82|1.50|1.00|1/3|2
aristocrat|5|1.40|0.55|1.00|1.00|1/2|1
commoner|5|0.60|0.55|1.00|1.00|0/1|1
[/table]


Note that the truenamer is a bit of a problem to classify, because its low power is in large part the result of a very easy to fix error in the DC of its truenaming skill.

What the hell is this? Forgive me, but I have no idea what I'm looking at. Could someone explain the details of understanding this chart?

[Kris Strife]

Time for this table again:

{table]Class|Cnt.|Avg.|SD|Med.|Mode|Min/Max|Spread|Comment
wizard|42|9.67|0.45|10.00|10.00|9/10|1|<=== Supreme Tier
archivist|38|9.63|0.62|10.00|10.00|7/10|3
artificer|37|9.39|0.76|10.00|10.00|8/10|2
druid|41|9.38|0.65|9.50|10.00|8/10|2
cleric|42|9.16|0.76|9.00|9.00|7/10|3
psion|32|8.35|0.73|8.00|8.00|7/10|3
sorcerer|39|8.20|1.01|8.00|8.00|4/10|6
erudite|11|8.15|1.35|9.00|9.00|5/9|4

beguiler|34|7.79|0.73|8.00|8.00|6/9|3|<=== Strong Tier
wu jen|20|7.58|0.94|8.00|8.00|5/9|4
spirit shaman|21|7.29|1.95|7.00|9.00|3/10|7
favored soul|30|7.23|1.03|7.00|8.00|5/9|4
dread necromancer|30|7.10|1.16|7.00|7.00|3/10|7
ardent|12|7.07|1.31|7.00|6.00|5/9|4
warblade|35|6.88|0.90|7.00|7.00|4/8|4
crusader|37|6.62|1.12|7.00|7.00|4/8|4
swordsage|34|6.55|0.89|6.82|6.00|5/8|3
wilder|16|6.46|1.76|7.00|7.00|3/10|7
shugenja|19|6.44|1.26|7.00|7.00|4/8|4
dragonfire adept|23|6.29|0.92|6.00|7.00|4/8|4
duskblade|34|6.09|0.87|6.00|6.00|4/8|4
psychic warrior|32|6.02|1.18|6.00|6.00|3/8|5
warlock|38|6.00|0.90|6.00|6.00|4/8|4

factotum|31|5.98|1.02|6.00|6.00|4/8|4|<=== Average Tier
binder|28|5.96|1.37|6.00|6.00|3/8|5
totemist|14|5.64|1.28|5.50|5.00|3/7|4
rogue|39|5.62|1.27|5.00|5.00|3/8|5
bard|38|5.45|1.52|6.00|6.00|1/8|7
warmage|37|5.41|1.62|6.00|7.00|1/9|8
scout|36|5.27|1.03|5.00|6.00|3/7|4
shadowcaster|22|5.03|1.79|5.13|4.00|2/8|6
barbarian|39|4.99|1.16|5.00|5.00|2/8|6
ranger|39|4.94|1.07|5.00|5.00|2/7|5
incarnate|11|4.94|1.14|5.00|4.00|3/7|4
lurk|11|4.79|1.64|4.00|4.00|2/8|6
dragon shaman|26|4.61|1.44|5.00|5.00|2/7|5
knight|37|4.27|1.03|4.00|4.00|3/6|3
swashbuckler|37|4.24|1.36|4.00|5.00|1/7|6
paladin|40|4.22|1.15|4.00|5.00|1/6|5
soulborn|11|4.15|1.15|4.00|4.00|3/7|4

ninja|33|3.97|1.29|4.00|4.00|2/8|6|<=== Weak Tier
fighter|41|3.88|1.41|4.00|4.00|1/8|7
hexblade|36|3.81|1.33|3.50|3.00|2/7|5
divine mind|11|3.67|2.30|3.00|3.00|1/8|7
marshal|29|3.66|1.17|4.00|3.00|2/6|4
adept|5|3.60|1.52|3.00|3.00|2/6|4
monk|41|3.51|1.38|3.00|3.00|2/8|6
healer|29|3.21|2.06|3.00|2.00|1/9|8
spellthief|29|3.16|1.20|3.00|4.00|1/6|5
truenamer|18|2.66|1.68|2.93|3.00|0/6|6
expert|5|2.40|0.55|2.00|2.00|2/3|1
soulknife|25|2.35|1.22|2.00|2.00|0/5|5
samurai|37|1.69|0.66|2.00|2.00|1/3|2
warrior|6|1.67|0.82|1.50|1.00|1/3|2
aristocrat|5|1.40|0.55|1.00|1.00|1/2|1
commoner|5|0.60|0.55|1.00|1.00|0/1|1
[/table]


Note that the truenamer is a bit of a problem to classify, because its low power is in large part the result of a very easy to fix error in the DC of its truenaming skill.

Explain the chart to those of us who haven't seen it before?

[Coidzor]

Kurald Galain: What is the source and what is the key to understanding this table?

[qcbtnsrm]

What the hell is this? Forgive me, but I have no idea what I'm looking at. Could someone explain the details of understanding this chart?

This was created through a voting process. But I don't recall if it was on this forum or somewhere else. The columns are:

Cnt. - Count (number of people rating this class).
Avg. - Average (mean) value assigned by those voting for the class.
SD - Standard Deviation
Med. - Median
Mode - Mode
Min/Max - Showes the range of votes, i.e. the highest and lowest vote the class recieved.
Spread - how many points between the Min and Max.
Comments - The spreads are set every two points so Supreme includes all 8-10 average counts and Weak includes everything below 4.

[Eldariel]

This was created through a voting process. But I don't recall if it was on this forum or somewhere else. The columns are:

Cnt. - Count (number of people rating this class).
Avg. - Average (mean) value assigned by those voting for the class.
SD - Standard Deviation
Med. - Median
Mode - Mode
Min/Max - Showes the range of votes, i.e. the highest and lowest vote the class recieved.
Spread - how many points between the Min and Max.
Comments - The spreads are set every two points so Supreme includes all 8-10 average counts and Weak includes everything below 4.

It was a voting on the Wizards Char Ops about the relative power of each class; each person simply assigned the number they thought was right to each class and then the results were compiled resulting in this. Not scientific to any stretch of imagination, but reasonably accurate.

[Kemper Boyd]

Kurald Galain: What is the source and what is the key to understanding this table?

I think the chart is for this: if someone references it, never play RPGs with them. Ever.

[Eldariel]

I think the chart is for this: if someone references it, never play RPGs with them. Ever.

In other words, wanting to play a mechanically equal bunch of characters each tailored to the player's desires up until the last feat is from satan and means the people involved are hellspawns you should never approach?

[Kemper Boyd]

In other words, wanting to play a mechanically equal bunch of characters each tailored to the player's desires up until the last feat is from satan and means the people involved are hellspawns you should never approach?

Yes, this is what I'm saying.

[Tengu_temp]

Remember, kids, game balance is the devil! If you're a Real Roleplayer, you should faint on the first notion of making characters with anything mechanics-related in mind, and require a bath in rose water to return to your senses. All your complains about feeling overshadowed by other party members are completely justified, of course - it's their fault they don't put as much effort into Real Roleplaying as you do! If anyone offers to fix the problem by helping you optimize your character, remember to gasp in disgust and slap the swine with your glove - such filth will not taint your character sheet!

[Coidzor]

Wow. I'm so tired that I misread "Cnt"(count) as "Crit" (critical) x.x

No wonder I was confused. haha...

hmm, interesting way they went about doing that up then.

[Kris Strife]

Remember, kids, game balance is the devil! If you're a Real Roleplayer, you should faint on the first notion of making characters with anything mechanics-related in mind, and require a bath in rose water to return to your senses. All your complains about feeling overshadowed by other party members are completely justified, of course - it's their fault they don't put as much effort into Real Roleplaying as you do! If anyone offers to fix the problem by helping you optimize your character, remember to gasp in disgust and slap the swine with your glove - such filth will not taint your character sheet!

I knew I was bringing that metal gauntlet to the table for a reason!

[Eldariel]

I knew I was bringing that metal gauntlet to the table for a reason!

If it's not a Spiked Gauntlet, it's suboptimal!

[Blackjackg]

Wow... this thread degenerated into blanket statements, straw men and name-calling pretty suddenly, didn't it?

The chart is, as noted, not scientifically (or at least, not mathematically) rigorous in any way, but it seems to give a pretty decent sample of public opinion on the subject. Thus, it answers the OP's question quite neatly. The +5 Venomous Spiked Sarcasm is not strictly called for.

Character balance is something, it's not everything. I've played very enjoyable campaigns where some characters were more powerful and/or versatile than the others. I've also seen game imbalance be a problem. Can we please put the swords away and try to be respectful of one another's opinions?